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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

First post First post First post
Author
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#1761 - 2016-02-01 17:44:19 UTC
Suede wrote:

Skill Extractors may only be used by characters with at least 5,500,000 skillpoints.

Skill Extractor

This item can be activated in a station to grant the user unallocated skill points. Skill injectors are consumed immediately once activated.

The amount of skill points granted depends on the total skill points the using character possesses, according to the following scale:

Characters with less than 5,000,000 skill points will receive 500,000 unallocated skill points
Characters with between 5,000,000 and 50,000,000 skill points will receive 400,000 unallocated skill points
Characters with between 50,000,000 and 80,000,000 skill points will receieve 300,000 unallocated skill points
Characters with more than 80,000,000 skill points will receieve 150,000 unallocated skill points

Skill Injectors are created using a Skill Extractor




That minimum was probably set for the test server. I don't think it makes any sense to talk about how they benefit new players if you have to be here three months+ to use one. That is just silly. Nor do I think the 500k unpenalized injector would be bothered to be stated. They would begin with the 2nd line not with 5m but 5.5m SP and the following 400k rules.

Do NOT assume the test server restrictions will apply to the TQ extractor rules.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#1762 - 2016-02-01 18:09:21 UTC
It seems like this entire topic was double-posted. The other thread I mentioned has many more CSM and large block representation and commenting on it. Probably why it has reached such high page count. Maybe time to shift over to there, guys. You won't be seeing me here anymore; My attention span probably died by page 186.
Kalgeroth
Doomheim
#1763 - 2016-02-01 20:15:28 UTC
Aquiileia wrote:
Please launch this soon so I can actually merge my characters and do what I actually wanna do in the game!
Thanks!


given it's going to cost 500m minimum and up to 1bn to buy an injector...i hope you have plenty of isk saved!
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#1764 - 2016-02-01 20:29:20 UTC
Oreb Wing wrote:
That minimum was probably set for the test server. I don't think it makes any sense to talk about how they benefit new players if you have to be here three months+ to use one.
You can't extract skills you don't have.

I think you are confusing extracting and injecting. I'm pretty sure you can inject skills on day one of a new character.

Mr Epeen Cool
Zombeilord Zantra
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1765 - 2016-02-01 20:37:00 UTC
Kalgeroth wrote:
Aquiileia wrote:
Please launch this soon so I can actually merge my characters and do what I actually wanna do in the game!
Thanks!


given it's going to cost 500m minimum and up to 1bn to buy an injector...i hope you have plenty of isk saved!


Who said it was going to be 1billion isk, could be 2 billion but know that you lose the skill you trained up, I assume it will be high at first at least close to a battleship or a bit more then a battleship cost, maybe a bill but the price I am sure will even out around maybe 400 mil to 600 million isk and if we are lucky it could even out to a flat 500 mill, but I can see it being a billion in the beginning. Have to wait and see what it ends up looking like next week.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#1766 - 2016-02-01 20:50:26 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Oreb Wing wrote:
That minimum was probably set for the test server. I don't think it makes any sense to talk about how they benefit new players if you have to be here three months+ to use one.
You can't extract skills you don't have.

I think you are confusing extracting and injecting. I'm pretty sure you can inject skills on day one of a new character.

Mr Epeen Cool


I did! That makes more sense.
Natsuko Kanami
Nesto Piratski
#1767 - 2016-02-01 22:09:45 UTC
TheDamned wrote:
While I understand some of you that have played for years to obtain your skill points not wanting these injectors, I also sense some of you not wanting to level the playing field at all. The idea of new players being able to pay for someone elses time in game to benefit themselves and be more "difficult" to prey on.

Can't speak for others, but leveling the playing field doesn't matter to me. I don't mind new people catching up to me in terms of SP (not that I have that much anyway), but this won't help them do that. It will help veterans who are well-off become even more well-off, and will in fact make the disparity between new and old players even bigger.

What I do mind is that CCP is doing something they explicitly said (multiple times) that they will never do, and that is offering an in-game advantage in exchange for cash.

What I do mind is that they're doing this despite the overwhelmingly negative response to it.

What I do mind is that they're doing this with one of the core mechanics that made EVE different from any other pay2win/grind2win MMO.

What I do mind is that they're lying about their reasons for doing it.

If they were interested in helping new players and insisted on doing it with this mechanic, the extractors would be available by means other than paying real cash, and the injectors would be completely unusable by any character above something like 10-20 million SP. Not to mention that there are plenty of better ways to help new players without also helping the older ones in the process.

TheDamned wrote:
Personally, I just want to be able to do the things I want to do in game with maximum efficiency. I want to max my scanning skills and stealth bomber skills. Nothing more. Right now, I get 120 dps with torpedos in a Purifier. I'm looking forward to be able to max some skills out from my alt characters.

I have a very old account (2004) but only have a little over 6million skills because for years I would come to eve, spend a week trying to learn something new about the game only to be roadblocked by the skill points over time system and then leave the game.

I want to as well, but not at the expense of the game as a whole. In fact, I would argue that having to wait for skills is a good thing. You need to plan what you want to do and what you need to do it, you need to decide what your priorities are and focus on a certain playstyle. You need to specialize.

That's one of the great things about EVE imo, that a pilot with 5 mil SP specialized in PvP skills can still pwn a 100 mil SP veteran who focused more on other things. You need to specialize, and people with different specialties need to group up and cooperate in order to cover each other's weaknesses and achieve something bigger than themselves. Now you'll just have a bunch of people running around going "buy all the skills \o/" and being jacks of all trades and masters of none.

And if you weren't playing because you waited for skills to train up, you're doing it wrong. You do the best with what you have at the moment and get better over time, and gain some actual gameplay experience in the process. Then when you get good enough at that aspect of the game and have the skills to match, you try something new and different. It's not so much about "I need X to do Y", it's about "I need to do Y, how do I do it with the tools I already have at my disposal". It's about thinking how to solve a problem or work around it instead of just throwing SP at it in the hopes that it will then solve itself.

Having to work with less will make you a better player when you have access to more. When this update goes live, you'll throw a bunch of SP at whatever you want to do, feel no accomplishment in doing so because it's instant gratification, and then realize you still suck at it simply because you don't have the gameplay experience to go along with and make good use of that SP.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#1768 - 2016-02-01 23:39:14 UTC
Kalgeroth wrote:
Aquiileia wrote:
Please launch this soon so I can actually merge my characters and do what I actually wanna do in the game!
Thanks!


given it's going to cost 500m minimum and up to 1bn to buy an injector...i hope you have plenty of isk saved!

I doubt it will cost as much as that. The ISK value of the skill points will be below 200mil due to the fact that skill farming will be appealing to anything around and above that mark.

CCP mentioned that they want to keep the transfer costs roughly similar to that of the bazaar, and if you consider a range of average character SP sold on the bazaar, your probably looking at around 10mil to 50mil SP, and both costing 2 PLEX will give a result between 20 and 100 extractors for 2 PLEX.

I'd guess CCP will be looking at the lower end meaning perhaps 10 extractors per PLEX.

So you have ( PLEX price / 10 ) + 200mil.

My guess is a single extractor will go for around 250 mil to 350 mil.

(This is of course all speculative dependant on how CCP prices the extractors)
Zozoll Neblyn
Ziggurat Forge
#1769 - 2016-02-02 04:08:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Zozoll Neblyn
edit: posted on wrong thread
Kalgeroth
Doomheim
#1770 - 2016-02-02 09:12:58 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
The ISK value of the skill points will be below 200mil due to the fact that skill farming will be appealing to anything around and above that mark.


500k SP can already be sold for 250-350m in the character bazaar...people already 'skill farm' in the sense that some characters are built specifically to sell, and they attain that kind of price

so the cost of the injectors will be a simple AUR/ISK conversion of the extractor + around 300m ISK

500m is the likely minimum cost of an injector
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#1771 - 2016-02-02 12:42:38 UTC
300 mil per 500k of SP would effectively mean eve becomes free to play. I can't see that happening as many players such as myself pay the subscription to access the servers and not solely for the accumulation of SP.
Kalgeroth
Doomheim
#1772 - 2016-02-02 13:29:55 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
300 mil per 500k of SP would effectively mean eve becomes free to play. I can't see that happening as many players such as myself pay the subscription to access the servers and not solely for the accumulation of SP.


the things is, it already happens (in the character bazaar)

of course you have to factor in your time as well and the cost of the character transfer, but you can already make ISK from character sales if you create a desirable and focused character and attain a good price

I don't think people will sell SP for less than they can sell it for already
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#1773 - 2016-02-02 13:40:02 UTC
Kalgeroth wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
300 mil per 500k of SP would effectively mean eve becomes free to play. I can't see that happening as many players such as myself pay the subscription to access the servers and not solely for the accumulation of SP.


the things is, it already happens (in the character bazaar)

of course you have to factor in your time as well and the cost of the character transfer, but you can already make ISK from character sales if you create a desirable and focused character and attain a good price

I don't think people will sell SP for less than they can sell it for already

Effort to do this is a huge factor. There goes a lot of planing and investment into this if you want to create and sell chars on the bazaar. SP extraction is however zero effort. This makes all the difference in the world.

I would never ever create a char to sell on the bazaar, but I will most certainly use the new mechanic to get free chars, and so will a lot of other people.

I expect a huge impact on PLEX price
Memphis Baas
#1774 - 2016-02-02 13:43:36 UTC
Kalgeroth wrote:
I don't think people will sell SP for less than they can sell it for already.


That's where you're mistaken.

People will sell for many reasons, including laziness, lack of knowledge, or just simply acting irrationally / on a whim.

Also, it's not like the current Character Bazaar prices are set in stone.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#1775 - 2016-02-02 14:32:30 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
many players such as myself pay the subscription to access the servers and not solely for the accumulation of SP.

Whoa whoa, you -sure- you want to say that here?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Kudoku
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1776 - 2016-02-02 15:01:41 UTC
CCP Quant wrote:
HeXxploiT wrote:
So whatever Dev it was at the end of the 07 show was talking about how he was curious to see how much injectors would go for in game.
This is a deliberately misleading comment because CCP so obviously sets the price. These are not ship skins these are a high demand item therefor they will reach their plex/$$ equivalent.

If CCP sells them for $2.50 they will be 150mil on market, $5 they will be about 300mil, $10 they will be 600mil on market and if they sell for the same price as a plex they will be the same price as a plex in game.

Silly



No you're missing the point Smile I am curious to see how players will value the skillpoint part of the injector, as you say we know the extractor prices. The injector prices are thus floored at extractor prices, but on top of that comes the unknown added isk value for the skillpoints themselves. THAT is the interesting thing to watch for when this goes live.


would make sense to base it on sp/month. let's say it's one plex per month. on plex is 1.2bil isk at the moment. one plex gives you one month of play time. i think i heard somewhere that sp/month is about 1mil without implants. so figure 510mil/500kSP probably.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#1777 - 2016-02-02 16:10:07 UTC
Kudoku wrote:
...

would make sense to base it on sp/month. let's say it's one plex per month. on plex is 1.2bil isk at the moment. one plex gives you one month of play time. i think i heard somewhere that sp/month is about 1mil without implants. so figure 510mil/500kSP probably.


I wonder if there's much point basing any price guesstimates on PLEX since when this hits the PLEX price is going to bounce around like a punk with ADHD at a Sex Pistols gig.

It'll take months most likely before prices for this settle (in my view to what the large alliance powers want it to be). It'll take months after that to see the impact on the wider market (which could be large) and on the player base (depending on whether those who have pre-paid 3, 6, 12 months on their accounts actually do quit).

In short this seems like a huge gamble to me for monetary gain. I hope I'm wrong about that but only time will tell.
Memphis Baas
#1778 - 2016-02-02 16:13:22 UTC
Predictions ARE based on SP / month, but paying via PLEX isn't the cheapest method. The cheapest method is $10.95 / month with a yearly subscription plan. So that's about HALF a PLEX per month.

Look at Character Bazaar prices, and if you convert the billion ISK character prices to PLEX at the current market values, you'll see that that's what SP/month is valued at (they're also using the maximum training speed, achievable with +5 implants remapped attributes to match the skill requisites).
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#1779 - 2016-02-02 17:08:59 UTC
I still feel the extreme reduction that more skilled characters get from this is unwarranted.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Tau Phoenix
Eternal Darkness.
Initiative Mercenaries
#1780 - 2016-02-02 18:29:24 UTC
Two things, this:

The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.

Source CCP: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/accord-reached-at-ccps-special-summit/

then this:

Skill Trading

The new skill trading system is coming to EVE Online, allowing players to turn skillpoints into a commodity for trade on the open market. This new method of sharing training will offer unparalleled options for skill tree customization, and assist new players in their quest to rapidly get ahead in the race for dominance in New Eden.

Source CCP: http://updates.eveonline.com/date/2016-02-09/

Nothing more to say really.