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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

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Tristan Agion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1461 - 2016-01-27 15:45:08 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Second, about the price, it will be HIGH. Because everyone's complaining in this thread, so they will pre-nerf it. Also because the same CCP people will put a price on this that were responsible for pricing the ship SKINs. How many ships do you fly? I can do all subcapitals. How much would it cost you (me) to get something along the lines of "I want to color all my ships some shade of blue, and on weekends something with yellow, ALL the ships." How much would that cost? Same people will price this feature. Minimum 1000 aur per extractor, I'm willing to bet on it.

Vanity items can be expensive, because nobody actually needs them. To be honest, ship SKINs and apparel are not even real vanity items in EVE, because it is really difficult for other players to see them. About the only time I see somebody else's ship SKIN is if I am undocking slowly in Jita. And I see other people's apparel properly only when I click "full body" after opening up their portrait. Vanity items in EVE are more narcissistic than properly vain, and the epitome of superfluous (you do not even get to impress anybody else with them).

In contrast, the SP extractors (injectors) are seriously relevant for game play. While they are not necessary, many people will want to use them with some regularity and in various in-game scenarios. They are a bit more like a mobile depot. You don't need one all the time, and there is nothing in the game that absolutely requires having one. But the fact that they exist means that many players will change some of their game play to factor their usage in. And some things you could not achieve without one. (That's not the same as being necessary for the game as such. It means certain ways of playing the game are only available with them.)

We do not have any proper example of something like that being sold for AUR. The closest we come to this are (or were) the Frostline fireworks items. And they were comparatively cheap in AUR.

I still think that anything above 500 AUR would be a really bad idea, and 100-200 AUR per extractor would be about right. At 1000 AUR or more, all this talk about helping newbies would become blatant mockery, adoption would be slow and limited, PLEX prices would rise further, etc. - and in general a lot of additional players would be angry at CCP. I think the rage on display in this thread is unrepresentative so far (e.g., things look rather different on reddit), but a high price for the extractor might well change that...
Officer Pressly
Doomheim
#1462 - 2016-01-27 15:53:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Officer Pressly
Whilest a small part of the community are doomsayers. Most of us really want this, and are looking forward to the changes that are comming. This will allow you to keep up with the changes that are happening in eve, or have happend along time ago.
Josef Djugashvilis
#1463 - 2016-01-27 16:35:30 UTC
Officer Pressly wrote:
Whilest a small part of the community are doomsayers. Most of us really want this, and are looking forward to the changes that are comming. This will allow you to keep up with the changes that are happening in eve, or have happend along time ago.


Most of us....

Really?

No one actually knows how the majority of players feel about this.

This is not a signature.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#1464 - 2016-01-27 16:51:48 UTC
Buba Neagra wrote:
Let's say the market will be :

1 plex = 1 bil
1 extractor + 500k SP (400k/300k/150k) = 500 mil

Option 1 : Being a rich mf and buying 200 plex from CCP will get me 200 bil.
200 bil will get me a char over 200 mil SP

Option 2 : Being the same rich mf I decide to buy 200 injectors + 500k SP (400k/300k/150k)

That would be 200 bil for 100 mil SP ( at the 500k SP rate which won't be the case obviously since you're gonna inject 500k at first then 400k and so on )

I would choose the first option.

I don't think the skill trading is a big deal really. People will buy a few to boost a skill here and there but won't be such a big impact over all.

My two cents.


This is too cheap. Of all the mockery of doomsayers, many of you are not seeing that it could go both ways.

You make them too expensive and CCP will have gained nothing, hardly helped any new player and have nothing but the heaped on ridicule of being greedy stuck on every wall.

On the flip side, if they price them too low, or ' affordable', as you put it, you will see exactly what CSM Mike, and others, have said. Except he went furthest. The rich will pull them off market with the highest buy orders and use them strategically in-game to buff their alt capital numbers, as it would be much cheaper to make sure no one can oppose you than offer SRP. Then noobs will rely on friends to fill up their purchased extractors because even the bazaar became a wasteland.

They need to not be 'affordable'. The price point you suggest for a full extractor should be what an empty one should come near to being.
Jeven HouseBenyo
Vanity Thy Name Is
#1465 - 2016-01-27 17:00:03 UTC
Timestamp on the thread, Dev Blog; Character Bazaar and Skill Trading

2015-10-15 14:49:18 UTC

CCP bought that cloud based micro-transaction Aria program in... wait for it...!

October. So them asking in the first place for feedback on the idea was rather dishonest of them, they'd made up their minds and paid the deposit on the software distribution contract already.

Why ask us anything, when CCP's obviously already made up their minds?

>Jeven

Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.

'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.

Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.

Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P

No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
Yaasmine
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1466 - 2016-01-27 17:02:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Yaasmine
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Officer Pressly wrote:
Whilest a small part of the community are doomsayers. Most of us really want this, and are looking forward to the changes that are comming. This will allow you to keep up with the changes that are happening in eve, or have happend along time ago.


Most of us....

Really?

No one actually knows how the majority of players feel about this.

well you have 5 doom sayers on forums

a few in support of it on forums

and then you have a landslide of supporters on reddit, with a very tiny number of opposers.
(283 more support skill injectors than oppose. and 388 more support of character bazaar and skill injectors, than oppose)

for reference. the 283 is 92% upvoted. the 388% is 88% upvoted

on facebook, its the same as reddit. more supporters than opposers, in higher number than on forums, though less total people than reddit (hint hint, reddit gonna be death of facebook xD)

and while the opposers are more vocal(leading to more negative posts). the number of people posting, is still more populated on support.
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1467 - 2016-01-27 18:07:49 UTC
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:
Timestamp on the thread, Dev Blog; Character Bazaar and Skill Trading

2015-10-15 14:49:18 UTC

CCP bought that cloud based micro-transaction Aria program in... wait for it...!

October. So them asking in the first place for feedback on the idea was rather dishonest of them, they'd made up their minds and paid the deposit on the software distribution contract already.

Why ask us anything, when CCP's obviously already made up their minds?

>Jeven


IMO. the people playing EVE are a special breed, that wants to be included in every choice CCP makes. CCP plays the balance between giving people the illusion of what they want, and still run a company. They can of course not always listen to the community as usually the most vocal and radical players are found here on the forums.

You think it is dishonest, I think it is born out of the behaviour from the community. They most often get angry and entitled responses (pointing in every direction) when they propose new things. They know people will get upset and act like children if they are not asked. So the only solution if you wanna run your company in your way is to put on the charades for the masses and still go in your direction. If people did not expect to be heard about every small detail, CCP would not have to do this.

Just take this thread, and look at all the misconception and misguided anger, over something that will probably be pretty harmless in the end. If I was CCP I would not like to include a community that act non-professionally, has notorious fear of change, don't have all the information available and a strong sense of entitlement, in decisions that may affect the future of the company. It is not your behinds on the line.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Tristan Agion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1468 - 2016-01-27 18:59:06 UTC
Oreb Wing wrote:

You make them too expensive and CCP will have gained nothing, hardly helped any new player and have nothing but the heaped on ridicule of being greedy stuck on every wall.

On the flip side, if they price them too low, or ' affordable', as you put it, you will see exactly what CSM Mike, and others, have said. Except he went furthest. The rich will pull them off market with the highest buy orders and use them strategically in-game to buff their alt capital numbers, as it would be much cheaper to make sure no one can oppose you than offer SRP. Then noobs will rely on friends to fill up their purchased extractors because even the bazaar became a wasteland.

They need to not be 'affordable'. The price point you suggest for a full extractor should be what an empty one should come near to being.

This makes no sense whatsoever, even on its own questionable terms. "Affordable" is not some kind of absolute number, it is relative to the person and their financial situation. The ISK rich will do what you suggest whether the filled injectors costs 300M, 500M, 1B or even more ISK, as long as they see some value in such an investment. They can afford it, and they will if it furthers their agenda. You cannot price them out of the market, at least not with a remotely sane price for the extractor.

But you can price "newbies" out of the market, or for that matter mid-level players, or indeed anybody who is neither member of a corp owning an ISK faucet nor embracing grinding as their way of life. If you raise the price too high, make it "not affordable" for most, then the only action you will see is precisely the 1% of EVE recruiting an alt army, or the like. Not only is that a really dumb move concerning overall game play and balance, it isn't even financially attractive. The 1% are that, the 1%. And maybe they buy a good many alts each, but once they are done with that, they will be done with that. There is no steady cash flow in this.

The only thing that makes sense here is to make these extractors affordable. Of course, what the filled injectors will cost is a function of the market. But CCP can manipulate the minimum cost at least, and really should keep it low to see lots of trade and usage of these.

Finally, the idea that the ISK rich of EVE can somehow "suck dry" the SP market is just plain silly. Of course, they can buy out all SP injectors that come to market initially. But if they do this, then the prices for the injectors will be very high on the market (demand outstripping supply). It takes about 2.5 months to set up a SP farm from scratch (the time it takes to get a new character from their initial 400k to 5.5M, ready for extraction). If the prices remain high for a few weeks, lots of people will start building up SP farms. So within about 3 months you will see this first big wave of farmed SP supply hit the market. If the ISK rich insists on buying this SP as fast as it arrives, then you can bet that people will expand their SP farms, and ever more people will continuously try to get in on this enormous ISK flow.

Eventually the ever rising supply will overwhelm the demand, eventually the ISK rich will go broke if they continue buying. It's just not possible to buy up a supply that is not only renewable, but renewable at essentially arbitrary speeds (you can always add more alts to a SP farm). At that point the market would crash, and we would be swimming in an incredible oversupply of injectors, probably being sold off way below cost...
Darkblad
Doomheim
#1469 - 2016-01-27 19:27:45 UTC
Yaasmine wrote:
well you have 5 doom sayers on forums

a few in support of it on forums

and then you have a landslide of supporters on reddit, with a very tiny number of opposers.
(283 more support skill injectors than oppose. and 388 more support of character bazaar and skill injectors, than oppose)

for reference. the 283 is 92% upvoted. the 388% is 88% upvoted

on facebook, its the same as reddit. more supporters than opposers, in higher number than on forums, though less total people than reddit (hint hint, reddit gonna be death of facebook xD)

and while the opposers are more vocal(leading to more negative posts). the number of people posting, is still more populated on support.
Well
Mike Azariah wrote:
Funny, you don't have to be a paid subscriber to post in reddit. Here, you do.

Folks who have old accts that they no longer play with may see this as an easier method to 'cash out'

By Cash out, yes, I mean RMT. Of course they would be in favour of something that would allow them to get some of their money back out of the game. Strip an old character you no longer play with and see cold hard cash in return.

I am not saying that all of reddit thinks that way but that there are ways to explain the difference in opinion across various forums.

m

and

Sugar Kyle
Sort Dragon
Mike Azariah
Steve Ronuken

NPE – ISD – RIP
Yaasmine
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1470 - 2016-01-27 19:37:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Yaasmine
Darkblad wrote:
Yaasmine wrote:
well you have 5 doom sayers on forums

a few in support of it on forums

and then you have a landslide of supporters on reddit, with a very tiny number of opposers.
(283 more support skill injectors than oppose. and 388 more support of character bazaar and skill injectors, than oppose)

for reference. the 283 is 92% upvoted. the 388% is 88% upvoted

on facebook, its the same as reddit. more supporters than opposers, in higher number than on forums, though less total people than reddit (hint hint, reddit gonna be death of facebook xD)

and while the opposers are more vocal(leading to more negative posts). the number of people posting, is still more populated on support.
Well
Mike Azariah wrote:
Funny, you don't have to be a paid subscriber to post in reddit. Here, you do.

Folks who have old accts that they no longer play with may see this as an easier method to 'cash out'

By Cash out, yes, I mean RMT. Of course they would be in favour of something that would allow them to get some of their money back out of the game. Strip an old character you no longer play with and see cold hard cash in return.

I am not saying that all of reddit thinks that way but that there are ways to explain the difference in opinion across various forums.

m

and

Sugar Kyle
Sort Dragon
Mike Azariah
Steve Ronuken

except that "cold hard cash" that mike mentions, wont be real. it will be virtual currency in game. (which they can earn anyway from selling the character in the bazaar, or selling plex)

if he wants "cold hard cash" he's gonna have to sell the characters in a non character bazaar way. which is against ToS. and open to scamming



and Steve said
Steve Ronuken wrote:

A lowish hard cap would make it not as bad. But it still leads to "I just subscribed, but unless I spend more real money, I'll always be behind"


aka, there is a level he's willing to compromise at.
which was a big reason for this thread. discuss a way to make this fair and smooth. (reward for tutorials? hard cap limit on number of uses? diminishing returns?)


and yet, instead of being productive to that end, this thread devolved into a few people(closed minded who can't calculate how much people would have to pay to do what these closed minded people are saying will happen) spamming corruption, greed, and doomcry posts.



and so the chance to convince CCP to put a limit on them or such. was drowned by the insults. and the search for it aborted.
ViolentDesire
78934223
#1471 - 2016-01-27 19:38:11 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Quite a few posts in this thread are pro- this change, and I'm guessing Reddit and the internet at large aren't quite as against this as you. So why do you assume they aren't listening to player feedback? In addition, forums have about 1000 posters; the only way to reach the 30,000+ in-game is to implement this feature and see what they do.


Send an eve mail to every likely unique account and let them vote. But they dont want to know or discuss. They want the money.
Yaasmine
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1472 - 2016-01-27 19:39:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Yaasmine
ViolentDesire wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
Quite a few posts in this thread are pro- this change, and I'm guessing Reddit and the internet at large aren't quite as against this as you. So why do you assume they aren't listening to player feedback? In addition, forums have about 1000 posters; the only way to reach the 30,000+ in-game is to implement this feature and see what they do.


Send an eve mail to every likely unique account and let them vote. But they dont want to know or discuss. They want the money.

which is why they asked new players, who it was ment for.....

Designed for New Players (or characters, depending on price it might be more difficult for them to get)
and middle class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZXowkNfyN8 go to 11:51

91% agree for his video.

end skill que online, and make people undock and play.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1473 - 2016-01-27 19:56:26 UTC
Suede wrote:
Just a Shame that CCP have not thought about it old Vets who have been playing Since alpha/Beta who had to train skills for over 10 years to get to where we are today all the sub fees all the time it took CCP just could not careless And for a New made account and an Eve player just to get it all in less then a 24hrs
it more a done Deal even before CCP posted the first Dev blog as CCP know it a good CashCow and CCP would not say no to money as to CCP money comes first over it paying players
What's funny is in order for the "all in less that 24 hours" worst case to play out you'd need to likely invest more money via PLEX than a 2003 player has spent over their entire tenure in sub prices. That's on top of hoping the SP is actually available to purchase. People keep bemoaning their "investment" in their SP while overlooking that they got it with their sub and leaving out that anyone who takes advantage of this does so with gameplay time or money beyond that while we just waited.

The argument of investment of a sub just doesn't really work here. And ironically it's the vets in the best position to use this, either as contributors of SP or buyers via already having the isk.

ViolentDesire wrote:
Send an eve mail to every likely unique account and let them vote. But they dont want to know or discuss. They want the money.
Since when do they do this? Ever? And if such votes are so important, why do you play a game where they never have them? Also people need to learn that feedback != a vote.

Yaasmine wrote:
which is why they asked new players, who it was ment for.....
Exactly, how dare they post the blog in new citizens Q&A! Wait, they didn't? They posted it here where it's received a large amount of vet feedback? But that would make this a lie.
ViolentDesire
78934223
#1474 - 2016-01-27 19:56:27 UTC
Yaasmine wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
Quite a few posts in this thread are pro- this change, and I'm guessing Reddit and the internet at large aren't quite as against this as you. So why do you assume they aren't listening to player feedback? In addition, forums have about 1000 posters; the only way to reach the 30,000+ in-game is to implement this feature and see what they do.


Send an eve mail to every likely unique account and let them vote. But they dont want to know or discuss. They want the money.

which is why they asked new players, who it was ment for.....

Designed for New Players (or characters, depending on price it might be more difficult for them to get)
and middle class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZXowkNfyN8

91% agree for his video.


I have not received an eve mail from CCP regarding this. I have seen the 300+ page thread with no reply by Rise.
ViolentDesire
78934223
#1475 - 2016-01-27 19:58:55 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

ViolentDesire wrote:
Send an eve mail to every likely unique account and let them vote. But they dont want to know or discuss. They want the money.
Since when do they do this? Ever? And if such votes are so important, why do you play a game where they never have them? Also people need to learn that feedback != a vote.


How often do they monetize the skill point system?
Yaasmine
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1476 - 2016-01-27 19:59:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Yaasmine
ViolentDesire wrote:
Yaasmine wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
Quite a few posts in this thread are pro- this change, and I'm guessing Reddit and the internet at large aren't quite as against this as you. So why do you assume they aren't listening to player feedback? In addition, forums have about 1000 posters; the only way to reach the 30,000+ in-game is to implement this feature and see what they do.


Send an eve mail to every likely unique account and let them vote. But they dont want to know or discuss. They want the money.

which is why they asked new players, who it was ment for.....

Designed for New Players (or characters, depending on price it might be more difficult for them to get)
and middle class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZXowkNfyN8

91% agree for his video.


I have not received an eve mail from CCP regarding this. I have seen the 300+ page thread with no reply by Rise.


and i just started Anabuki 3 weeks ago. and was asked my opinion of it during the talk with the GM where they ask how your doing starting off.


also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZXowkNfyN8
11:51


ViolentDesire wrote:


How often do they monetize the skill point system?

its called XP booster.

try every MMO


or Character Bazaar. which is a monetized based off skill points of a character.





CCP wants people to undock and play.

not play "skill que online"

12:45 (pathetic if your the person who said that)
ViolentDesire
78934223
#1477 - 2016-01-27 20:00:58 UTC
Yaasmine wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
Yaasmine wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
Quite a few posts in this thread are pro- this change, and I'm guessing Reddit and the internet at large aren't quite as against this as you. So why do you assume they aren't listening to player feedback? In addition, forums have about 1000 posters; the only way to reach the 30,000+ in-game is to implement this feature and see what they do.


Send an eve mail to every likely unique account and let them vote. But they dont want to know or discuss. They want the money.

which is why they asked new players, who it was ment for.....

Designed for New Players (or characters, depending on price it might be more difficult for them to get)
and middle class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZXowkNfyN8

91% agree for his video.


I have not received an eve mail from CCP regarding this. I have seen the 300+ page thread with no reply by Rise.


and i just started Anabuki 3 weeks ago. and was asked my opinion of it during the talk with the GM where they ask how your doing starting off.


also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZXowkNfyN8
11:51




Seems irrelevant. What was relevant was the 300 page thread. It was ignored.
Scott Dracov
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1478 - 2016-01-27 20:01:21 UTC
CCP Games posts Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading 15th October 2015 to see the reaction to selling skill points. the result was overwhelmingly negative responses to the idea...

5 days later...

CCP Games Selects Aria Systems’ Active Monetization Platform to monetize EVE and EVE Valkyrie with micro transactions of all activities in EVE– 20th October 2015...

I suspect...

Aria salesman whispered sweet nothings in the new boss at CCP's ear... the guy who borrowed 30 mil from his dad and spent it on CCP to gain control of EVE and is now mesmerized by micro transacting EVE to death to "Improve" EVE. LOL.

It is my pleasure to tell you... new CCP head dude that you got scammed by Aria hardcore... the Jita bears are laughing at you. They will all perish as EVE goes down in flames but so will your "reign" over it when the fruits of your betrayal come home to bite you in the ass.

http://crossingzebras.com/is-valkyrie-monetization-coming-to-eve-online/
"The news broke in October (2015) that CCP had selected Aria Systems’ active monetization platform for Valkyrie, launching in 2016.

The Icelandic video game producer (CCP), best known for producing EVE Online and its pioneering virtual reality games, performed a comprehensive review of cloud-based billing solutions before choosing to adopt the Aria platform to monetize their entire portfolio of games (EVE online is CCP's only successful game they have no real portfolio.). The first game (besides EVE) to use Aria’s monetization platform will be EVE: Valkyrie, when it is launched in 2016."

a recent history of CCP games...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCP_Games

In October 2011, following a large controversy over its introduction of micro transactions to the game EVE Online, CCP announced that it would be reducing its staff. As stated in a CCP press release, the layoffs affected about 20% of all world wide jobs within CCP, most in their Atlanta, GA office. These layoffs were mainly of staff related to the development of World of Darkness.

On 28 August 2014, CCP shutdown their San Francisco studio to refocus their efforts on EVE Online. At the same time of the announcement, the CFO, Joe Gallo and CMO, David Reid quit. As of 2015, none of CCP's original founders are still with the company.


The short shortsightedness of this view of EVE... CCP no longer sees EVE as some treasure that will reap steady rewards for decades through honest and simple subscription fees... but a pinata that must be busted open and smashed to get at all the valuable prizes inside... all that money from all those players who invested in EVE that believed their investment would be honored have been betrayed categorically in every way.

More and more it seems all CCP has been doing for a very long time is putting all their efforts into turning EVE into a pay to win micro transacted nightmare.

If they spent half the effort and money they did on actually improving EVE that they did on this Aria scam EVE would be a lot better off.

but these new guys bought EVE out and have control of CCP so they can destroy EVE and no one is going to stop them.

Your going to need to monetize undocking, chat channels and buying plex with isk CCP because there is a good chance most of your player base will not be paying you any real cash ever again.

I suspect they will buy plex with isk as I will to keep playing short term so better ladder plex up to 10bil+ to stop them... from playing EVE... because they refuse to pay you ever again because you want to scam them with rage pinging their credit card at 1-10bucks at a time after they prepaid you months in advance with subscription fees.

because you suck and have no interest in a player paying you for the next twenty years with subscription fees and need to get your micro rocks off with aria because you paid aria to get your micro rocks off and want to so bad your about to explode...

cheers...

and f%*# you CCP.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1479 - 2016-01-27 20:01:40 UTC
ViolentDesire wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

ViolentDesire wrote:
Send an eve mail to every likely unique account and let them vote. But they dont want to know or discuss. They want the money.
Since when do they do this? Ever? And if such votes are so important, why do you play a game where they never have them? Also people need to learn that feedback != a vote.


How often do they monetize the skill point system?
Constantly, via the Bazaar, training certs, and most commonly the sub you pay to play the game. Do you think CCP doesn't know people often keep subs while inactive just for SP?
ViolentDesire
78934223
#1480 - 2016-01-27 20:02:49 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

ViolentDesire wrote:
Send an eve mail to every likely unique account and let them vote. But they dont want to know or discuss. They want the money.
Since when do they do this? Ever? And if such votes are so important, why do you play a game where they never have them? Also people need to learn that feedback != a vote.


How often do they monetize the skill point system?
Constantly, via the Bazaar, training certs, and most commonly the sub you pay to play the game. Do you think CCP doesn't know people often keep subs while inactive just for SP?


I'm talking about this specific change. How often have they implemented it?