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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

First post First post First post
Author
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1421 - 2016-01-27 03:32:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
I'll adapt.

That's all about it. But i got a strong feeling CCP doesn't care much of newbies tbh.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#1422 - 2016-01-27 03:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Mike Azariah wrote:
That is the balancing act CCP is betting on. That the increase revenue will exceed any losses via disillusioned players leaving.

The one who is disillusioned is CCP. Their gambling this time is a bad one and unlike in the past where if they made a mistake they could just fix it next patch, they won't be able to fix it this time. This time it's different, once they implement this feature there would be no going back. Not only that but this is uncharted territory in the game core mechanics that CCP never touched since this game been released until now. There won't be another retry if they get this wrong so they really should consider player feedback and really take their time with this before they outright kill this game.

And this "balancing act of increase revenue will exceeding any losses via players leaving", will only be temporary. Once the dust clears and the wonder drug wears off this game is gonna hit rock bottom. Unless they actually get this right on the first try, by carefully listening to player feedback and not destroying the game at it's core.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#1423 - 2016-01-27 03:46:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Oreb Wing
Daniela Doran wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
That is the balancing act CCP is betting on. That the increase revenue will exceed any losses via disillusioned players leaving.

The one who is disillusioned is CCP. Their gambling this time is a bad one and unlike in the past where if they made a mistake they could just fix it next patch, they won't be able to fix it this time. This time it's different, once they implement this feature there would be no going back. Not only that but this is uncharted territory in the game core mechanics that CCP never touched since this game been released until now. There won't be another retry if they get this wrong so they really should consider player feedback and really take their time with this before they outright kill this game.




Yes. Pricing of the extractors is paramount to how this will play out. IMO, they should be equal the cost of the estimated value of the half a month training or more. So, when people say 1000, I don't think they are too far off. 1800 would pits a lot of people off, but it will govern this handedly.

I don't agree with removing the bazaar, as there will always be abandoned characters. More like extractors will bring the end of the bazaar, as those who sell characters will simply see more revenue with the extracted SP and the character, and transfer, factors out of the way. If they can afford the extractors, or at least the first one.
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1424 - 2016-01-27 04:28:05 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Since some of the recent arguments seem to like to equate this to the character bazaar I guess you will not mind this new improvement replacing it? As in we shutter the bazaar in the near future?

No, they are not the same. That point was made by Rise in the first post. He disliked getting a character with its own baggage. You know, consequences?

Of course they are not the same. And the bazaar will still have a valuable role, namely the legitimate transfer of high SP characters.

The point of the character bazaar equivalency is to point out that the principle of buying SP with ISK is already present in the game. Owing to its role in combating RMT, it will almost certainly not be removed. I see little added harm (and lots of added benefit) in adding an alternative method by which this can be accomplished.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Memphis Baas
#1425 - 2016-01-27 04:29:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Daniela Doran wrote:
they really should consider player feedback and really take their time with this before they outright kill this game.

And this "balancing act of increase revenue will exceeding any losses via players leaving", will only be temporary. Once the dust clears and the wonder drug wears off this game is gonna hit rock bottom.


OMG the doom and gloom!

Quite a few posts in this thread are pro- this change, and I'm guessing Reddit and the internet at large aren't quite as against this as you. So why do you assume they aren't listening to player feedback? In addition, forums have about 1000 posters; the only way to reach the 30,000+ in-game is to implement this feature and see what they do.

As far as EVE hitting rock bottom, EVE and any other game will always hit rock bottom if left alone. Developers have to keep implementing change after change, expansion after expansion, to keep the game going. "Taking their time" is what results in rock bottom; they did try an 18-month vacation (literally) a while back and it was awful. This gets implemented, citadels get implemented, capital ships get improved, and voila, no more rock bottom. As long as they keep adding shiny new things, we'll play.

Every other MMO out there is dealing with the fact that the past few expansions have increased the level cap and NEW players are unwilling to start from level 1 when all they want to see is the new (end-game) shiny. Free level 60, 12x expedited leveling, increased XP from quests... the EVE equivalent of what every other MMO is doing would be free skillpoints, and free Genolution 12x implants, etc.

But no, every time CCP tries to get with the times, we predict doom and gloom, and act all entitled. Eve is dying, they're killing EVE, blah blah blah. You know what CCP should do? Go 6 months with no dev blogs, just implement whatever the hell they had planned, and boom suddenly it's on TQ with no warning, deal with it. Because every time they devblogged this past year, we kicked and screamed bloody murder. No appreciation.

I'd go one step further, and post (regularly) pie-in-the-sky devblogs that have nothing to do with what gets implemented on TQ. Like, "March release, we're re-vamping mining to involve a mini-game (lots of pictures and text on the minigame) and also changing the asteroid distribution (charts on where the new asteroids will be)" and come March actually release the change to carriers (make them DPS only) and the new logistics capital ships.

And in the comments thread for the March release once it's out, only allow players to comment on mining.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#1426 - 2016-01-27 04:34:17 UTC
You don't want to know what I think about Citadels...
Memphis Baas
#1427 - 2016-01-27 04:40:34 UTC
No, not in this thread. There are several Citadel threads.

But, they've only implemented all the artwork, core coding on how they'll work, and most of the features, so it's too early to post your opinion. Wait until we're closer to release, and THEN it will be the perfect time to ask them to completely change / revamp their plans, because the current implementation that they've blogged 6 times about will KILL EVE.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#1428 - 2016-01-27 04:45:46 UTC
Much like here, enough can be presumed or foretold with high accuracy by just having one single piece of information left out: Extractor AUR cost.

Citadels are no different in the case of where and how you can anchor them. But, yes, there are many threads in the warfare and tactics forum.
Rebel Gunn
Doomheim
#1429 - 2016-01-27 05:25:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebel Gunn
Mike Azariah wrote:

That is the balancing act CCP is betting on. That the increase revenue will exceed any losses via disillusioned players leaving. As I said before, I am staying, not because I agree with this plan but because I hope that the game will weather this decision, one way or another. I have tried to put a lot into the game and the gaming community. I have friends here. I cannot just walk away when things get rough. My play style may be impacted? I'll adapt. People will suddenly be better than me? News flash, lots already are and I keep playing anyways.

With great trepidation I will be paying my first subscription fees in three years come this April. But pay them I will.

See? That is how an optimistic anarchist HTFU's

m


I don't see a balancing act here. It's a poorly disguised attempt to ram a pay-to-win scheme down players throats. Everyone who has ever played an F2P or other game that derives much or all of its revenue from microtransactions understands just how different the dynamic is between players in the game compared to a subscription model.

EVE has by any measure been successful with a subscription model. There have been trips and falls along the way, but it has survived when so many other games have not. It's integral to how EVE gameplay and skill advancement works. Why abandon it when the risks of heavy microtransactions are so well known? This is a clear mistake.

I can only conclude that either CCP management has no idea what it is doing anymore, or that it this is a calculated move to extract as much money as they can as fast as they can toward some other end not related to building EVE further for the long-term. I'll leave speculation on the latter to others; I just know they aren't focused on the needs of their customer anymore.

I think this is why so many people here are so angry. We can feel that the relationship to us as customers is becoming one-sided, and we are just being used with increasingly little in return. That's not a healthy dynamic for a game.
beakerax
Pator Tech School
#1430 - 2016-01-27 06:55:54 UTC
Zappity wrote:
The point of the character bazaar equivalency is to point out that the principle of buying SP with ISK is already present in the game.

Actually, you can only buy characters on the character bazaar. Strange but true.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1431 - 2016-01-27 07:05:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
beakerax wrote:
Zappity wrote:
The point of the character bazaar equivalency is to point out that the principle of buying SP with ISK is already present in the game.

Actually, you can only buy characters on the character bazaar. Strange but true.
Yet try as we might we can't seem to get that to work without also transferring the SP that character has. Or maybe I'm wrong with all the denials of getting SP with a character sale and we've found a way in the meantime?

Because certainly it's not people trying to dismiss one of the core reasons people look for characters on the Bazaar, the SP that those characters have and the capabilities granted by that, on such a flimsy and irrelevant technicality. Right?
beakerax
Pator Tech School
#1432 - 2016-01-27 07:10:57 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Yet try as we might we can't seem to get that to work without also transferring the SP that character has.

I know. It's weird. It's almost like, at present, skill points are not a property that is separable from the character who owns them.

Quote:
Because certainly it's not people trying to dismiss one of the core reasons people look for characters on the Bazaar…

Nah, I just don't care for equivocation.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#1433 - 2016-01-27 07:12:20 UTC
SP trade is just the begining:

Aria

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1434 - 2016-01-27 07:21:31 UTC
beakerax wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Yet try as we might we can't seem to get that to work without also transferring the SP that character has.

I know. It's weird. It's almost like, at present, skill points are not a property that is separable from the character who owns them.

Quote:
Because certainly it's not people trying to dismiss one of the core reasons people look for characters on the Bazaar…

Nah, I just don't care for equivocation.
Fair enough, though for the conversation at hand I'm not sure we're dealing with actual equivocation vs a more relevant truth regarding Bazaar purchases.

May depend on broader opinions.
Jeven HouseBenyo
Vanity Thy Name Is
#1435 - 2016-01-27 08:30:32 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
SP trade is just the begining:

Aria



The lines in the linked article that spell it out. Wow. Did the majority of Eve Online customers just get pwned by CCP for not being the 1% in RL?

"What kind of in-game purchases might a player make inside Valkyrie? Almost any feature can be monetized into microtransactions (£1-9 range) but given how much the Oculus pre-orders cost, could this be an entirely different, far more affluent customer that CCP is targeting?"

Unwashed masses indeed. Sorry CCCP, no more Plex or Aurum purchases from me, and no micro-bilking of my budget. Hope you make up those losses elsewhere, I'm sure you could care less all you'll get is subscription payments from one dinky customer. P

Day-um.

>Jeven

Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.

'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.

Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.

Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P

No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.

Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1436 - 2016-01-27 09:14:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
SP trade is just the begining:

Aria



Below the Belt...Ugh

I have already collapsed myself for one active account, with three characters on it. Would sell two out of three pretty soon. Slowly but surely selling my assets all over the galaxy. No you can't have my stuff.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Amanda Orion
Unsung Heroes
Requiem Eternal
#1437 - 2016-01-27 10:11:34 UTC
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:


Unwashed masses indeed. Sorry CCCP, no more Plex or Aurum purchases from me, and no micro-bilking of my budget. Hope you make up those losses elsewhere, I'm sure you could care less all you'll get is subscription payments from one dinky customer. P

Day-um.

>Jeven


I'm with you. Suspended a few accounts, no more plex, no more aurum, no skins.
and no Valkyrie for me...
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1438 - 2016-01-27 10:17:44 UTC
Wow. I'm so glad CCP isn't watching this thread any more. It is depressing.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Aerious
SwEaTy ArMpIT RaIDeRs
The Initiative.
#1439 - 2016-01-27 10:21:49 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Wow. I'm so glad CCP isn't watching this thread any more. It is depressing.


A bit like your blog.....

"They worried we would eventually offer not just vanity items, but ones that would give the Haves an unfair advantage over the Have-Nots."

Sespria Secantus
Doomheim
#1440 - 2016-01-27 10:34:34 UTC
Looks like the Eve train is heading for a collision course and I don't like train wrecks so I don't think I'll be resubbing anymore once my game time expires. A pity, I thought this game had some real promise.

Can anyone here in this thread refer me to another game like Eve, but without the pay2win disease?