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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

First post First post First post
Author
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#761 - 2016-01-20 14:00:35 UTC
Amanda Orion wrote:
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:

In hindsight, it is funny how a lot of people say they are done with EVE because of Skill Trading but I've yet to spot anyone in Doomheim on this thread.


Some people just quietly unsubscribe.
And sadly, some of them who are used to paying 3 or 6 months at a time, still have several months prepaid, so the subscribed numbers may not immediately show the fall.


Conversely there will also be a group of players who will play out their pre-paid time and then not resub leading to drops in numbers 3, 6, 9, and 12 months down the line when people won't even remember why.
Luna Bowman
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#762 - 2016-01-20 14:24:53 UTC
Dibz wrote:
Luna Bowman wrote:
Before: 1 day old gank alt in poorly fit frigate / maaaaybe a destroyer?
After: 1 day old gank alt in max skilled tornado, after buying 6 million SP worth of injectors by his main?


What does this have to do with the consequences of your choices in EVE?


Im not talking about actions and their consequences, im asking about meta-game consequences for EVE, that can be brought with this change (i.e. not being able to judge character capability based on its age, anymore)
Zeddrick Anthar
Krypted Gaming
K R Y P T E D
#763 - 2016-01-20 14:36:05 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Funny how the devs already abandoned the thread. One would think they at least address some of the voiced concerns which where already raised in the last thread and tell us why it is not a problem.


Apparently, CCP have devoted most of their interaction to, and got the feedback they wanted to hear from Reddit, or whatever it is called.

That CCP do not use their own forums or pay heed to the feedback therein much, is just sad really.


That's a bit disappointing if true. The devblog linked here as the comments and I don't even have an account in Reddit. If they were going to do that then why not just link straight to Reddit in future instead. Hopefully a Dev will stick in a "we're still reading this" post so we can stop worrying and go back to beating up on the idea^H^H^H^H^H providing constructive feedback.
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes
#764 - 2016-01-20 14:42:11 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Funny how the devs already abandoned the thread. One would think they at least address some of the voiced concerns which where already raised in the last thread and tell us why it is not a problem.


Apparently, CCP have devoted most of their interaction to, and got the feedback they wanted to hear from Reddit, or whatever it is called.

That CCP do not use their own forums or pay heed to the feedback therein much, is just sad really.


This bugs me too, these forums as far as I understand are current subbed players only, i.e. the opinions of those actually playing the game. You can only like a post and not actively beat i down (other than by arguing your point).

Reddit is a forum for anyone (whether active or not) and can be manipulated through aggressive downvoting of any post (no matter how well reasoned) that does not fit with the view of the largest group with the most to benefit from any given change.

Doesn't strike me as a smart way to gather feedback.

I'm going to have to be a cynic here, and say, seeing as how they handled the last few patch feedback threads, ESPECIALLY the new icon thread, it does NOT look like they have any interest in criticism, or feedback.

For well over a year now, they have only responded to posts praising them, and ignored everything else.
James Lorden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#765 - 2016-01-20 14:52:16 UTC
I would love to see no penalty If using on a single account. I would love to recover that training that I mistakenly ran when I wasn't sure what to train or recover the SP on my Alts that I never use.
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
#766 - 2016-01-20 15:06:39 UTC
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:
Resubscribed recently and I'm super excited about this feature! Finally I can fix my skills and stop playing Skill Queue Online!

In hindsight, it is funny how a lot of people say they are done with EVE because of Skill Trading but I've yet to spot anyone in Doomheim on this thread.

Here's a thought! Hard the Flip Up! You silly ninnies whine about everything. I remember the moaning about removing clone grades and we got through that just fine.


There's always someone willing to stand by their convictions.

I saw "PTFU" coined earlier in this thread.
David Semris
Doomheim
#767 - 2016-01-20 15:16:37 UTC
Amanda Orion wrote:
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:

In hindsight, it is funny how a lot of people say they are done with EVE because of Skill Trading but I've yet to spot anyone in Doomheim on this thread.


Some people just quietly unsubscribe.
And sadly, some of them who are used to paying 3 or 6 months at a time, still have several months prepaid, so the subscribed numbers may not immediately show the fall.


Tell me about it, subscribed till early 2018.

Anyway I do not take this game very seriously because I simply cannot compete in it... People with 10 accounts make 10 times the money, in PvP they have their own scouts and off-grid fleet boosts or a logi at hand, they do not have to care for loses cos they can have fun and easily cover their loses with alts at the same time. Basically the very fact that you can be online with more than 1 character at once means I cannot take this MMO seriously.

But at least I had fun developing my own character, seeing how he was developing and how he will yet develop in a year or two or three and what he will be able to try and fly efficiently. Eh, no, not anymore. Just buy SP. Max out character. Set the charges and end it. Lol

Buy more accounts, buy ISKs, buy Aurum or whatever and now finally buy SPs (heh, all we miss in this discussion are the guys with the "SPs do not matter" rhetoric)...

If I would have spent a small amount of Euro from what I have spent on this game in Guild Wars 2 (just an example), I would have my characters in legendary gear set for life. Cool And I thought that game was greedy (stupid free to play (pay to win) model).

I don´t know what more to say. I always used to say in-game that ISKs do not matter (you can buy them with Euro) and now SPs will not matter. What will actually matter... Why not remove SPs at all? Well because removing them would not generate money.

Enough of my rambling, let´s end this with "this change is baaaad and I mean baaaaad."
SoapyTits
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#768 - 2016-01-20 15:22:02 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
SoapyTits wrote:
Now is that 30 - 38 in eve or in general gaming?


That was from a quick google where the articles quoted 30-38 as the low and high ends for gaming in general. Interestingly one of the articles pointed out that in general its people under ~20 and over ~30 playing but the average falls in between. Most polls tend to find what they want though which is why I took the lowest and highest age as most seemed to agree on that at least


Now - that makes more sence then - and it also makes my argument more true. Stooooopiiiid to bring up such numbers without explaining!
SoapyTits
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#769 - 2016-01-20 15:26:30 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Funny how the devs already abandoned the thread. One would think they at least address some of the voiced concerns which where already raised in the last thread and tell us why it is not a problem.


Apparently, CCP have devoted most of their interaction to, and got the feedback they wanted to hear from Reddit, or whatever it is called.

That CCP do not use their own forums or pay heed to the feedback therein much, is just sad really.



Now if thats true - the guy using Reddit in CCP over this forum should be sacked immidietly for not using the right communication channel. THAT IS ******* STUPID!




OR by all sense get rid of eve forums all together and just use reddit. God that is dumb.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#770 - 2016-01-20 15:29:54 UTC
SoapyTits wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
SoapyTits wrote:
Now is that 30 - 38 in eve or in general gaming?


That was from a quick google where the articles quoted 30-38 as the low and high ends for gaming in general. Interestingly one of the articles pointed out that in general its people under ~20 and over ~30 playing but the average falls in between. Most polls tend to find what they want though which is why I took the lowest and highest age as most seemed to agree on that at least


Now - that makes more sence then - and it also makes my argument more true. Stooooopiiiid to bring up such numbers without explaining!


Please do explain how this backs up your 'argument', preferably without insults (that aren't even spelt correctly :) )
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#771 - 2016-01-20 15:34:51 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Funny how the devs already abandoned the thread. One would think they at least address some of the voiced concerns which where already raised in the last thread and tell us why it is not a problem.


Apparently, CCP have devoted most of their interaction to, and got the feedback they wanted to hear from Reddit, or whatever it is called.

That CCP do not use their own forums or pay heed to the feedback therein much, is just sad really.

Maybe they did actually answer but ISD removed it for trolling...
Mercur Fighter
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#772 - 2016-01-20 15:35:42 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
A couple months ago we introduced the idea of Skill Trading which resulted in lots of valuable feedback. After going through a lot of feedback while refining the design, we would like to be add Skill Trading to New Eden and it is currently scheduled for our February release.

Please read the latest blog from CCP Rise and Team Size Matters Skill trading in New Eden for all the details.

We welcome all your feedback, thank you!


+1 from me
Wendrika Hydreiga
#773 - 2016-01-20 15:36:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Wendrika Hydreiga
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:

There's always someone willing to stand by their convictions.

I saw "PTFU" coined earlier in this thread.


Well, I stand corrected!

But I still like the fact I get to trade skill points.

For starters, CCP can in the future include Skill Injectors in their newbie starter packs (Colonist, Explorer, etc.) and make the skill books included in them seem less redundant. Future events could include them in their loot tables, increasing the incentives for running the event sites.

And SiSI will be a lot more fun since you can virtually inject infinite skill points in the event they seed the market with Skill Injectors.

Possibilities: Endless
Cixi
#774 - 2016-01-20 15:49:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Cixi
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Querns wrote:
Hubs wrote:
This "Pay to Win" option worries me immensely and makes me somewhat sad...

How is this "pay to win?" SP injectors aren't for sale on the AUR store; only the extractors are.



Cause you cant buy multiple toons and stockpile them into one, while you could buy multiple skill points injections and boost one single character greatly.


Having a lot of SP is not "winning", experience matter a lot too

Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:

And SiSI will be a lot more fun since you can virtually inject infinite skill points in the event they seed the market with Skill Injectors.


Damn I didn't think about this, that would be awesome Big smile
Pandora Bokks
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
Externa Group
#775 - 2016-01-20 16:16:50 UTC
After thinking this over for a long time I finally decided that this change is good. Not for the game necessarily - but for me personally. I am playing this game for some time on four accounts that are all on paid subscription. I am far from being space rich but if I consolidate my assets that are not necessary for my current gameplay, I can buy app. 100 PLEX. As I do not really enjoy multiboxing, I do need only 2 accounts - the other 2 are maintained because it is cheaper compared to multiple character training, I need app. 15 mln skillpoints in total to have all alt where they should be.

My adaption plan:

So I will buy SP for the alts, consolidate my accounts into 2 and play on Plex until the lights go out or I lose interest. Even if my accounts go inactive over some time, its not a huge issue, as I can buy lost SP for virtual money if I feel I need to (at a premium ofc - but Its still virtual). So in my case, CCP will keep a loyal customer and I will save 720 EUR per year. Classical win/win, isn't it?
Makalu Zarya
The Maverick Navy
#776 - 2016-01-20 16:26:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Makalu Zarya
I guess we all foresaw the move to the "pay-to-win" system in EvE eventually. While I'm somewhat hopeful that this will open the way for the current generation of gamers who seem to only stick around if they get something right there and then, this is a pretty sad development for veterans who have put in years of meticulous skill training.

Looking over my char. sheet I counted up about 150k of wasted sp that I would like to give back and lots of very focused pilots are the same way and in a way this seems like another middle finger to the veteran community much like the supercap nerf.

While it is true that any newbie could just go out and buy a char. on the bazaar you were never very likely to find a character that didn't have loads of wasted skill points in skills that you never wanted. People just bought what was closest to their goal and went with it. The wasted skills were just that, wasted skills, never to be used.

Perhaps this will turn out well for EvE, time will tell, however I have a feeling that much like the supercap nerf it will lead to more veterans not playing while not retaining any of the newer players once they realize that no amount of sp will buy them skill or experience.

But then again...I don't even play, so who cares for what i think.

-maka

ps. However given recent slew of changes rolled out by CCP it seems that they don't care what anyone other than themselves think.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#777 - 2016-01-20 16:28:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
Cixi wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Querns wrote:
Hubs wrote:
This "Pay to Win" option worries me immensely and makes me somewhat sad...

How is this "pay to win?" SP injectors aren't for sale on the AUR store; only the extractors are.



Cause you cant buy multiple toons and stockpile them into one, while you could buy multiple skill points injections and boost one single character greatly.


Having a lot of SP is not "winning", experience matter a lot too

Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:

And SiSI will be a lot more fun since you can virtually inject infinite skill points in the event they seed the market with Skill Injectors.


Damn I didn't think about this, that would be awesome Big smile


Having a lot of SP is not winning - look at it as getting into a position of advantage quicker by using a Credit Card.

If you don't spend your real life money then you spend a few months training alts up to gas harvest and another to be mining booster, then a few more months to learn T3 production - I'll be doing it tomorrow

Then the same alts need to be trained up in Pi - that's a month each, more if you don't remap - If you don't use your CC fine - I'll be harvesting Pi tomorrow .

As for fighting, I like force recons and they will need a booster - you can wait 140 days/ 160 days - I will be in recons + booster tomorrow.

EDIT:
Before you could never catch up someone who joined the game at an earlier time than you, though the higher level skills have diminishing returns which means the gap could be closed a fair amount. Now you can pay to catch up or even pass skill wise.

If for example I pay to skill up my toon to do pi or industry and you wait you will never be able to recover the lost income unless you pay as well.
Luther Fairfax
Perfectenschlag
#778 - 2016-01-20 16:29:34 UTC
I keep reading the argument that this isn't P2W because "Experience matters" in Eve.

Yes it does. In PVP.

Any noob with a CC who is interested in Manufacturing, PI, Mining, Copying/Researching BPO's can still leverage this mechanic to max out a character for his preferred Industrial activities, and can potentially still make disgusting amounts of isk because on the industrial side of the game, skillpoints matter far more than player experience.

Any monkey can go out and mine or build caps provided they have the SP and isk. It doesn't take skill to queue up jobs at a station. They've always had the isk thanks to plex, now they'll have the SP as well.
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
#779 - 2016-01-20 16:32:28 UTC
Can I use this while hours to plex'ed?

Cixi
#780 - 2016-01-20 16:32:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Cixi
Luther Fairfax wrote:
I keep reading the argument that this isn't P2W because "Experience matters" in Eve.

Yes it does. In PVP.

Any noob with a CC who is interested in Manufacturing, PI, Mining, Copying/Researching BPO's can still leverage this mechanic to max out a character for his preferred Industrial activities, and can potentially still make disgusting amounts of isk because on the industrial side of the game, skillpoints matter far more than player experience.

Any monkey can go out and mine or build caps provided they have the SP and isk. It doesn't take skill to queue up jobs at a station. They've always had the isk thanks to plex, now they'll have the SP as well.


I am waiting to see this wave of wannabee industrial injecting production skills and having no idea what they need to do next Lol

Lady Rift wrote:
Can I use this while hours to plex'ed?



I would say no because CCP want you to use a plex during this period, but who now ? Blink