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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

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Udonor
Doomheim
#621 - 2016-01-19 20:56:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Udonor
Papa Django wrote:
Jackie Fisher wrote:
How many million Aur will the tear, err I mean Skill Extractor cost?


It is the last relevant question.

Any debate before the answer is completly irrelevant (if we ignore the bittervet ocean of tears).

If the goal is to help newbros, the AUR price must be low. If the price is too high, it will only help rich people (irl) and rich people (ig) to build insta-alts.

500K sp is 8 days of training for a x1 skill. ?



What is this a lecture on drug addiction? ROFLMAO. Yeah after 5 SP injections to new toon, this probably would become the newest EVE player addiction. For some players it might become a hazard irl budgetary process. Not CCP or other player problem. Addictive people will always seek out something in which to overinvest. I have met a lot of ship collectors in EVE obsessively buying PLEX so they can own every edition of every hull, every skin, etc. Others buy real drugs or collectable action figures (dolls for guys). Not our problem to solve.

Let's be honest this feature is primarily for the benefit of vets creating new gank toons. With 3-4 injections, you have a 1 hour old toon with gank destroyer skills and no identifiable reputation or negative standings. Perfect for looking innocent to otherwise wary vets that you want to stalk and gank. Guess what? As long as aurum and extractors on the market , most of us earn enough in game ISK to afford this on regular basis.

Fairness regardless of real life circumstance? Sandbox. EVE is NOT fair in every detail. Some people get the lucky drops and others don't. But if it makes you feel better, who has the biggest tool (SP or ISK) only means much when the player knows how to use that tool well. A fair number of players will be very slow or never get that. Plenty of vets are still lousy at EVE.
Josef Djugashvilis
#622 - 2016-01-19 20:57:39 UTC
Aerious wrote:
Tristan Agion wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I have some useless skill points - mining for example, but I made the decision to train them and I should have to, and do live with those choices.

In what sense are you "living with those choices" anyhow? It's not like real life, where your life span is finite, you learn better when you are younger, and society tends to make it difficult to switch careers late in life.

Right now, training takes the same time no matter what else your trained for however long earlier. The only "consequence" you suffer is that if your goals change then compared to a hypothetical you who had your new goals from the start your character will be older when your reach them. Basically, if you compare your training to the the ideal "from newbie to X" skill plan, then your detour to other things has "cost you time". But that's just in your mind.

It would be different if for example there was a hard cap on SP, so that you could train only say 50M SP and no more. Or if training speed slowed down significantly as you acquired more SP. Then there would be real consequences of "wasted skill training". As it is, there are basically none.

What skill point injection does is to allow players who have either ISK or unwanted SP (and AUR) to train into new skills more rapidly. That's all.

If you think that's "evil", then I would suggest that you rip out all those implants that make you train faster. I bet you paid for those with ISK... This is simply another method of paying ISK to get skills faster. And unlike implants, which definitely increase the total SP growth in the game, these injectors may decrease it (though that depends on how much of the SP comes from active players extracting unwanted SPs, and how much from SP farming alts).


You sound like a goon alt.


A classy insult, my good sir Smile

This is not a signature.
Sacrebleu d'Orion
The Bubble Project
#623 - 2016-01-19 20:58:04 UTC
I love the idea,

Just two small requests

A) Make it 512.000 per skill injector (same value as a full x2 skill)
B) Give us the opportunity to delete skills with 0 skillpoints trained (for us, the autists we all are)

Thanks in advance!
Memphis Baas
#624 - 2016-01-19 20:59:04 UTC
Why do you guys assume that there will be this limitless supply of injectors? Cause personally I'm not sure we'll even see ONE.

I sure don't need "extra cash", and if I do, selling a PLEX is certainly more effective, and my SP are quite precious, so I don't plan on removing any of them.

So where do you see all these vast amounts of skillpoints coming from? I mean, you're yelling back and forth about "rich kids getting 200 million skillpoints", from where??? With the skill loss on transfer, 300+ million SP's would have to be destroyed to let a single rich kid achieve his "dream".

Character Bazaar, out of 24,000 logins every day, how many are selling, say, SKILLED (not holder) titan pilots, or any other super for that matter. 3, 4? 10? Or hell, pilots with more than 120 million points. If the chances of getting 120 million points are 0.04%, where exactly is the fire?

CCP isn't giving away skillpoints out of thin air; some players will have to lose them in order for anyone to get any. I really doubt that we'll have that many people willing to de-progress their character.

ESPECIALLY when CCP finally announces the Aurum cost for it, and you all realize what a truly monumental cash grab this is. Why do you think they're avoiding any mention of the prices?
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#625 - 2016-01-19 21:00:09 UTC
I've never understood why CCP just doesn't have some kind of voting option for these hotly debated feature discussion. If the vast majority of players are so against this, then a vote would tell what the community wants.
Memphis Baas
#626 - 2016-01-19 21:04:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Estella Osoka wrote:
I've never understood why CCP just doesn't have some kind of voting option for these hotly debated feature discussion. If the vast majority of players are so against this, then a vote would tell what the community wants.


Yeah and then they'll implement it anyway. So the whole "voting" thing would just be an insult.

Look at it this way: You decide to go to a nice restaurant with your significant other, but, as a bad idea, you get on facebook and ask all your friends to "vote" where you should go and what you should eat. Then, because you had reservations at the restaurant, you go as planned and ignore all the friends' voting results, which just pisses them off.

We're players; we don't have any control over what CCP does, as a business, with their product (this game). They KNOW what the community wants; this thread is 30+ pages telling them what the community wants, with swearwords and everything.
Udonor
Doomheim
#627 - 2016-01-19 21:07:37 UTC
Hmmm....T2-T3 SP retraining injections?

For a mere 3 PLEX of aurum, players could convert all skills to SP then restructure all their skills. Take a toon from horrendous boring industrial toon to uber PVP toon.

Sounds like a excellent way for CCP to retain players who would otherwise quit after they finally get a clue as to why EVE is worth playing. But normally would not have the heart to spend 6 months training up to have an acceptable vet level PVP toon. And CCP gets to make some extra rl cash to keep the company and EVE going.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#628 - 2016-01-19 21:09:37 UTC
Udonor wrote:
Papa Django wrote:
How many million Aur will the tear, err I mean Skill Extractor cost?


It is the last relevant question.

Any debate before the answer is completly irrelevant (if we ignore the bittervet ocean of tears).

If the goal is to help newbros, the AUR price must be low. If the price is too high, it will only help rich people (irl) and rich people (ig) to build insta-alts.

500K sp is 8 days of training for a x1 skill. ?



the price as far as AUR is concerned is almost irrelevant since there is a set time taken to generate 500ksp there will be a limited supply people with isk will buy all these up as they go to the market shooting the price up


i'll say it again the only way for a newbro to gain access to this is going to be via plex and that is not healthy to the game particularly a subscription based one

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#629 - 2016-01-19 21:11:21 UTC
Udonor wrote:
Hmmm....T2-T3 SP retraining injections?

For a mere 3 PLEX of aurum, players could convert all skills to SP then restructure all their skills. Take a toon from horrendous boring industrial toon to uber PVP toon.

Sounds like a excellent way for CCP to retain players who would otherwise quit after they finally get a clue as to why EVE is worth playing. But normally would not have the heart to spend 6 months training up to have an acceptable vet level PVP toon. And CCP gets to make some extra rl cash to keep the company and EVE going.


right as a new player you tell me i need to shell out cash just to play the game then you tell me i have to pay more to play competitively that will be great for bringing in newbros

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#630 - 2016-01-19 21:17:03 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Why do you guys assume that there will be this limitless supply of injectors? Cause personally I'm not sure we'll even see ONE.

I sure don't need "extra cash", and if I do, selling a PLEX is certainly more effective, and my SP are quite precious, so I don't plan on removing any of them.

So where do you see all these vast amounts of skillpoints coming from? I mean, you're yelling back and forth about "rich kids getting 200 million skillpoints", from where??? With the skill loss on transfer, 300+ million SP's would have to be destroyed to let a single rich kid achieve his "dream".

Character Bazaar, out of 24,000 logins every day, how many are selling, say, SKILLED (not holder) titan pilots, or any other super for that matter. 3, 4? 10? Or hell, pilots with more than 120 million points. If the chances of getting 120 million points are 0.04%, where exactly is the fire?

CCP isn't giving away skillpoints out of thin air; some players will have to lose them in order for anyone to get any. I really doubt that we'll have that many people willing to de-progress their character.

ESPECIALLY when CCP finally announces the Aurum cost for it, and you all realize what a truly monumental cash grab this is. Why do you think they're avoiding any mention of the prices?


well for one because if they are never sold it wont be an issue

why the will be sold is

there will be a huge demand that demand will be high enough for people to make SP farms to sell sp

the only thing that would stop this is if the demand was not high enough for them to sell the SP at a proffit over simply selling the plex + the cost of running the account.

but i can assure you the demand will be high enough to make this happen and the cost even w/o factoring in the AUR of the item will be far more than a new bro can pay w/o plexing

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Charlie Corday
Doomheim
#631 - 2016-01-19 21:23:02 UTC
Now we have to worry about getting ganked by 1-day old characters who bought millions of skillpoints and billions of isk.

Please rethink this money grabbing strategy. This is a horrible idea and goes against everything that is Eve.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#632 - 2016-01-19 21:24:56 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Udonor wrote:
Hmmm....T2-T3 SP retraining injections?

For a mere 3 PLEX of aurum, players could convert all skills to SP then restructure all their skills. Take a toon from horrendous boring industrial toon to uber PVP toon.

Sounds like a excellent way for CCP to retain players who would otherwise quit after they finally get a clue as to why EVE is worth playing. But normally would not have the heart to spend 6 months training up to have an acceptable vet level PVP toon. And CCP gets to make some extra rl cash to keep the company and EVE going.


right as a new player you tell me i need to shell out cash just to play the game then you tell me i have to pay more to play competitively that will be great for bringing in newbros

need to

have to


Love everyone's angle on having additional options. Keep it up!

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#633 - 2016-01-19 21:27:37 UTC
Charlie Corday wrote:
Now we have to worry about getting ganked

I see. Well risk aversion is something that is killing eve, so I heard

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Charlie Corday
Doomheim
#634 - 2016-01-19 21:29:14 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Charlie Corday wrote:
Now we have to worry about getting ganked

I see. Well risk aversion is something that is killing eve, so I heard



Finish the quote or go back to WoW... "by 1-day old characters who bought millions of skillpoints and billions of isk."
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#635 - 2016-01-19 21:31:35 UTC
We get you're risk averse in really specific situations.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#636 - 2016-01-19 21:33:14 UTC
Charlie Corday wrote:
Now we have to worry about getting ganked by 1-day old characters who bought millions of skillpoints and billions of isk.

Please rethink this money grabbing strategy. This is a horrible idea and goes against everything that is Eve.
Constant vigilance with every character in the game without the exception...

...does it not seem odd to anyone else in this game that this isn't the default state for any character you don't know?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#637 - 2016-01-19 21:34:38 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Charlie Corday wrote:
Now we have to worry about getting ganked by 1-day old characters who bought millions of skillpoints and billions of isk.

Please rethink this money grabbing strategy. This is a horrible idea and goes against everything that is Eve.
Constant vigilance with every character in the game without the exception...

...does it not seem odd to anyone else in this game that this isn't the default state for any character you don't know?

Eh, does it take very long for characters to get a cyno trained nowadays

I guess maybe you feel safe in highsec~~~ ??? Not that you might not get tackled anyway and then from the next system they jump in, or log on.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Charlie Corday
Doomheim
#638 - 2016-01-19 21:46:09 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Charlie Corday wrote:
Now we have to worry about getting ganked by 1-day old characters who bought millions of skillpoints and billions of isk.

Please rethink this money grabbing strategy. This is a horrible idea and goes against everything that is Eve.
Constant vigilance with every character in the game without the exception...

...does it not seem odd to anyone else in this game that this isn't the default state for any character you don't know?

Eh, does it take very long for characters to get a cyno trained nowadays

I guess maybe you feel safe in highsec~~~ ??? Not that you might not get tackled anyway and then from the next system they jump in, or log on.



The point is that Eve has always been about consequences. If you choose to train in a certain path there is a consequence (good and bad). Now with the magic of the dollar we can press the respec button. That is not Eve, that is a very clear money grabbing strategy that eliminates the toughness, finality and consequences that made this game great.
ViolentDesire
78934223
#639 - 2016-01-19 21:46:37 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Udonor wrote:
Hmmm....T2-T3 SP retraining injections?

For a mere 3 PLEX of aurum, players could convert all skills to SP then restructure all their skills. Take a toon from horrendous boring industrial toon to uber PVP toon.

Sounds like a excellent way for CCP to retain players who would otherwise quit after they finally get a clue as to why EVE is worth playing. But normally would not have the heart to spend 6 months training up to have an acceptable vet level PVP toon. And CCP gets to make some extra rl cash to keep the company and EVE going.


right as a new player you tell me i need to shell out cash just to play the game then you tell me i have to pay more to play competitively that will be great for bringing in newbros


Correct. Before this game breaking change, you were unable to catch up with older players, now you will also be unable to catch up with a lot of newer players.

Apparently this solves a problem.
Memphis Baas
#640 - 2016-01-19 21:46:50 UTC
Charlie Corday wrote:
Now we have to worry about getting ganked by 1-day old characters who bought millions of skillpoints and billions of isk.


Seriously, do you actually trust 1-day characters? Because personally I bug out when I see the known gank ships (certain destroyers, for example), I don't even wait to show info on the character. Destroyer in the overview? Bug out!!! And even then it's too late.

Do you trust a 1-day character coming near you to mine in his Venture? Because they're the perfect "warp to fleet member at 0 km" setup to kill you with point blank heavy damage suicide gank ships.

1-day doesn't mean anything. You help 1-day newbies in the Newbie Q/A forums, not in game. Can't trust anyone in-game.

So how many SP they have is moot.