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[Feedback Plz] Logistics Frigates and Small FW Complexes

First post First post
Author
Thorr VonAsgard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-01-05 20:20:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorr VonAsgard
Yes they should as other t2 frigs are already allowed

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Esnaelc Sin'led
Les Petits Pedestres
Toilet Paper.
#22 - 2016-01-05 20:30:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Esnaelc Sin'led
Yes.
I wonder why you did this.

T3 Cruisers : not allowed in Medium Plexes = "Let's allow T3 Dessies in Smalls !!!!"
T2 Cruisers : allowed in Medium Plexes = "Let's not allow T2 Frig Logis in Smalls !!!"

CCP_Logic at his best.
*sigh*
*facepalm*
Ashterothi
Malevelon Roe Industries
#23 - 2016-01-05 20:43:57 UTC
IMO consistency is important:

Novice - T1 frig only
Small - T1 and T2 destroyer down (no T3)
Medium -T1 and T2 cruiser (no T3)
Large - anything goes

This is easy to understand, process, and teach new players in a combat environment that is designed for newer players.

saying "You can have all T2 desy down, except T2 logi frigs" breaks any of the consistency, and causes even veteran players to become confused.

I say the simplicity and elegance of the rules are what is important here. Logi is far easier to counter then T3 destroyers are that is for sure!
Esnaelc Sin'led
Les Petits Pedestres
Toilet Paper.
#24 - 2016-01-05 20:47:40 UTC
Not even mentioning that Logi T2 would've been OP ASIDE T3Dessies, if those ones were still allowed in smalls.
Which they are not anymore, so why forbid frig logis in small ? The is just ... whatever..
Destman
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2016-01-05 21:30:37 UTC
If you want faction warfare to be about solo PVP, don't allow powerful logi into the sites. If you want faction warfare to be about group PVP, consider allowing powerfullogi to enter smaller sites.

I see more power logi in smaller sites as a good thing to promote faction warfare into being about group PVP rather then solo.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#26 - 2016-01-05 22:06:35 UTC
I hope you aren't implying that links aren't totally gamebreaking all the time

and yeah, logistics is horrible, but so is a bunch of other stuff like ecm and unkillable risk-free kiting ships. I guess let them in the plex if only to be consistent and not have exceptions for people to remember.
Jack Hayson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-01-05 22:24:51 UTC
Yes, let them in.
Where else would you want them to be used in FW?
There are enough counters to them that can enter a small. (e-war frigs or simply the alpha from destroyers)
Kalaratiri
SniggWaffe
Pandemic Horde
#28 - 2016-01-06 00:02:11 UTC
My god, 26 posts of people agreeing unanimously. Is this some kind of record?

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Varus Sakura
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2016-01-06 00:48:11 UTC
I am a Faction Warfare pilot. I in the past flew logi in other areas of the game, and still fly guardians, augorors, and inquisitors routinely.

I trained Logistics Frigates to level 4 as soon as they were released, under the assumption / anticipation that they would be of great and frequent use to me as a faction warfare pilot.

I have not at this point ever flown one. There has not been a single situation where Logistics Frigates were available to me that it would have been preferable to fly one over a t1 or t2 logistics cruiser.

I would really like to fly one in the future; but in order for that to happen, they need to have a use case, insomuch as there is a situation where their use would be warranted of a different ship.
Xavier Azabu
Half Empty
#30 - 2016-01-06 01:40:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Azabu
I would put them in - as long as you continue to monitor them for balancing reasons.

I can understand your concern about putting them in at first. Small complexes seem like one of the few places in Eve to find a true solo experience.

However there are enough counters to warrant their use. I already see gangs in small complexes as well. Their addition would give faction warfare pilots an additional option for training and fleet composition.

Solo warfare generally depends upon the intel that you're not going to be facing too many enemies. This information is already provided by tools like D-Scan, Killmail API, and Local.
Ptyler
Exiled Ronin.
Northern Ronin
#31 - 2016-01-06 03:44:33 UTC
yes, let them in. considering every other t2 frigate can currently enter them, and considering command destroyers can currently enter them too, yes definitely let them in.
Tenar Sparrowhawk
Nasty-Boyz
Templis CALSF
#32 - 2016-01-06 04:01:25 UTC
+1 for consistency.

It's the only T2 small ship that can't fit into a Small plex.

soranno
14th Legion
#33 - 2016-01-06 05:09:44 UTC
Put simply, they should be allow into smalls as, in my opinion, they belong with Assault frigates and destroyers.
Consistency in plex restrictions is one factor, it is straighforward enough that a friage being restricted to mediums and up is incorrect. And that those mediums allow all forms of cruiser logi... does not compute.

Thank you for your attention on this matter. Have been trying to get attention for this from the week the ships were introduced.
Ascentior
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#34 - 2016-01-06 05:20:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ascentior
Absolutely! It is where they belong.
Make no mistake, they will cause a stir. Another tool that will allow pricey ships to tank above their weight. And unfortunately, Amarr look to have drawn the short straw as the meta will favour kitey shield gangs over Armor. Lots of comments about 'easy counters' might be missing the mark a little.
Aldrith's point that alpha is king in smalls is right on the money. For the same reason that svipul gangs died laughably to t1 fit t1 destroyers in smalls.
Just to clarify a little, I don't believe consistency is relevant at all. Future decisions should not be made based on past mistakes. While I think the logi frig was quite clearly safe to those who are heavily invested in the FW meta, I would still prefer that the devs take extra time to do it right that just say "Screw balance, we must be consistent!"
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You're not fooling anyone.

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Irsam Samri
Black Heart's Fleet
#35 - 2016-01-06 06:32:24 UTC
A BIG NO FROM ME.
but only to add a differing opinion. I want them in actually
Charles Surge
VULSI
#36 - 2016-01-06 08:09:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Charles Surge
Yes.

I dislike that Logistics Frigates not being allowed in Smalls was kept secret from the players.

I have enough problems and if these couldn't fit in Smalls, thinking about them again following this surprise was not a priority. I did the math just now for the first time ever on what they actually rep. Balancing them isn't my job. CCP has created this ship class, if their existence is not a mistake, let them be used.
Castromil
Exiled Ronin.
Northern Ronin
#37 - 2016-01-06 08:27:25 UTC
Yes definitely.
trenny jr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2016-01-06 09:42:58 UTC
Ashterothi wrote:
IMO consistency is important:

Novice - T1 frig only
Small - T1 and T2 destroyer down (no T3)
Medium -T1 and T2 cruiser (no T3)
Large - anything goes

This is easy to understand, process, and teach new players in a combat environment that is designed for newer players.

saying "You can have all T2 desy down, except T2 logi frigs" breaks any of the consistency, and causes even veteran players to become confused.

I say the simplicity and elegance of the rules are what is important here. Logi is far easier to counter then T3 destroyers are that is for sure!



This is pretty much all the arguments you need
Yngvar ayShorn
Einheit X-6
Ushra'Khan
#39 - 2016-01-06 11:44:36 UTC
Ashterothi wrote:
IMO consistency is important:

Novice - T1 frig only
Small - T1 and T2 destroyer down (no T3)
Medium -T1 and T2 cruiser (no T3)
Large - anything goes

This is easy to understand, process, and teach new players in a combat environment that is designed for newer players.

saying "You can have all T2 desy down, except T2 logi frigs" breaks any of the consistency, and causes even veteran players to become confused.

I say the simplicity and elegance of the rules are what is important here. Logi is far easier to counter then T3 destroyers are that is for sure!


+1 so much this.

So, yes, let them in.

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Techno36
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#40 - 2016-01-06 15:45:44 UTC
Yes let them in. The reps must flow.
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