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Walking in stations

First post
Author
Solecist Project
#1421 - 2016-01-03 13:58:53 UTC
We should play together.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
#1422 - 2016-01-04 07:13:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
Roberta Gastoni wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
So what?
Go there and stop paying our sub here.
Stop wasting isk or plex for something you don't want.

You don't do that, though. You don't go to your friends and post on the SC forums,
no, you post here. You lack any believability whatsoever, just like every single one of
you folks who declare they leave for any other game.

Except Indah. Indah doesn't attempt to bullshit us about leaving for other games.
I guess she got that going for herself... which is actually nice.


You know, regardless of the game, everywhere is the same.

If you go on a wow forums, it's full of naysayers calling for its imminent death and how they are going to quit, or even worse, they actually don't play it anymore but they feel the need to tell everybody how the game is bad and they should leave it.

Then you move on EvE forums, and it's the same.

Even worse are the people who wish to turn a game into another, because they loved that other game, but they don't play it anymore, but they would love to see it here, in the new game. This basically summarize this thread.

People wish to have aspects of Second Life, Star Citizen and even WoW into EvE, but they don't actually play anymore (or ever played) those games. And the more a game survive over the time, the less it's going to be like other games, because clones have a short lifespan.

Don't be denial people, all the WoW clones died, all, every single one from Wildstar to SW:ToR passing from Elder Scrolls online and its hundred of bugs (yes, hundreds, it's not a made up number, at the release it was unplayable), and you wish to have a clone feature of some other game, without any real benefit to the real EvE gameplay implemented instead of other gameplay changes or additions? You guys really want to return shooting the jita monument, don't you?

I'll leave an old school, iconic and ironic photoshop of the original EvE poster:

EvE Poster

And a relevant reddit post:

Reddit - 2006 EvE

This is the spirit of EvE, this is the vision of the game and this is the game most of us signed for. When I'll want to walk into a ship hangar, I'll go donate 50 euros to Chris Roberts.

P.s. Now that I think about it, I should probably make a corp called Robertas Space Industries and have a RSI. tag



Generally when you get into such a game there is a certain time commitment if you want to make it worth your while. And if the range of activities in that game is limited, of course you begin to feel bored and begin questioning whether or not the game has any kind of lasting future. The majority of EVE's most lucrative activities are fairly passive, so even when incredibly successful its easy to get that feeling as I have.

That said, the wider the range of activities available the less likely one is to become bored and go elsewhere. They need only distract themselves with a different corner of the game, rather than a different game. Too much focus on a certain thing results in feelings of exodus. For that reason, yes, I do support an entirely different style of gameplay for WiS content. Whether its entirely social, is a glorified housing/trophy room, involves smuggling, or is simply loaded with minigame distractions... whatever. More activities are better and there is only so much you can do with a space ship.

None of the content we've gotten in the last three years has meant anything to me because at the end of the day its all the same stuff. No matter how many different ships CCP adds all they really do is fly, mine, shoot, and explode. I'm over it, really.
MidnightWyvern
The Bosena Accords
#1423 - 2016-01-04 13:58:17 UTC
Kuronaga wrote:
Roberta Gastoni wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
So what?
Go there and stop paying our sub here.
Stop wasting isk or plex for something you don't want.

You don't do that, though. You don't go to your friends and post on the SC forums,
no, you post here. You lack any believability whatsoever, just like every single one of
you folks who declare they leave for any other game.

Except Indah. Indah doesn't attempt to bullshit us about leaving for other games.
I guess she got that going for herself... which is actually nice.


You know, regardless of the game, everywhere is the same.

If you go on a wow forums, it's full of naysayers calling for its imminent death and how they are going to quit, or even worse, they actually don't play it anymore but they feel the need to tell everybody how the game is bad and they should leave it.

Then you move on EvE forums, and it's the same.

Even worse are the people who wish to turn a game into another, because they loved that other game, but they don't play it anymore, but they would love to see it here, in the new game. This basically summarize this thread.

People wish to have aspects of Second Life, Star Citizen and even WoW into EvE, but they don't actually play anymore (or ever played) those games. And the more a game survive over the time, the less it's going to be like other games, because clones have a short lifespan.

Don't be denial people, all the WoW clones died, all, every single one from Wildstar to SW:ToR passing from Elder Scrolls online and its hundred of bugs (yes, hundreds, it's not a made up number, at the release it was unplayable), and you wish to have a clone feature of some other game, without any real benefit to the real EvE gameplay implemented instead of other gameplay changes or additions? You guys really want to return shooting the jita monument, don't you?

I'll leave an old school, iconic and ironic photoshop of the original EvE poster:

EvE Poster

And a relevant reddit post:

Reddit - 2006 EvE

This is the spirit of EvE, this is the vision of the game and this is the game most of us signed for. When I'll want to walk into a ship hangar, I'll go donate 50 euros to Chris Roberts.

P.s. Now that I think about it, I should probably make a corp called Robertas Space Industries and have a RSI. tag



Generally when you get into such a game there is a certain time commitment if you want to make it worth your while. And if the range of activities in that game is limited, of course you begin to feel bored and begin questioning whether or not the game has any kind of lasting future. The majority of EVE's most lucrative activities are fairly passive, so even when incredibly successful its easy to get that feeling as I have.

That said, the wider the range of activities available the less likely one is to become bored and go elsewhere. They need only distract themselves with a different corner of the game, rather than a different game. Too much focus on a certain thing results in feelings of exodus. For that reason, yes, I do support an entirely different style of gameplay for WiS content. Whether its entirely social, is a glorified housing/trophy room, involves smuggling, or is simply loaded with minigame distractions... whatever. More activities are better and there is only so much you can do with a space ship.

None of the content we've gotten in the last three years has meant anything to me because at the end of the day its all the same stuff. No matter how many different ships CCP adds all they really do is fly, mine, shoot, and explode. I'm over it, really.

Is that to suggest that with those new, alternate experiences you'd eventually be attracted back to ship Combat? That is the point of this game after all.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)

Solecist Project
#1424 - 2016-01-04 14:05:53 UTC
You're the only other I recognize who calls it ship combat.
I've given up on it ... everyone just wrongly keeps calling it PvP.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

MidnightWyvern
The Bosena Accords
#1425 - 2016-01-04 15:22:39 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
You're the only other I recognize who calls it ship combat.
I've given up on it ... everyone just wrongly keeps calling it PvP.


Well whether you are fighting other players or NPCs, it's still technically ship combat.

I guess I'm making the assumption that that's the kind of gameplay he would be looking for since we both are "Slayers" in Dust 514, though he is FAR better at it than I am.

I mostly stick to flying Caldari Assault Dropships and occasionally ragequitting when some seeker missiles randomly detonate with too much kinetic impulse and flip me upside down in midair.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#1426 - 2016-01-04 15:55:34 UTC
Roberta Gastoni wrote:


You know, regardless of the game, everywhere is the same.


This is because the common denominator is 'people' lol. 'People' are almost never satisfied with anything. That's ok, that's them. What I tend to find annoying isn't that these 'people' exist, it's that they look at those of us who aren't like them, who can actually be satisfied with a thing (probably because we don't believe the universe owe us everything just because we want it)....) like we're the ones with the problem lol.

If you go back in this very thread you can find where I linked some posts from World of Tanks forums where people plead for and demand INFANTRY....in a game called "World of TANKS". This despite the plethora of other , more complete war games that have infantry that they could be playing.

They expect the world to cater to them, rather than them having to adapt to the world. My problem with the WiS crowd doesn't come from the fact that some dude sitting in front of a computer wants to have avatar stuff in EVE so that they can sit at a bar that doesn't exist and drink beverages they can't taste while staring out a window at an imaginary planet. To each his own. The problem comes from their constant nattering about how easy it would all be for someone (who isn't them) to add that kind of stuff to EVE despite CCP's track record with such things.


Solecist Project
#1427 - 2016-01-04 16:02:44 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
My problem with the WiS crowd doesn't come from the fact that some dude sitting in front of a computer wants to have avatar stuff in EVE so that they can sit at a bar that doesn't exist and drink beverages they can't taste while staring out a window at an imaginary planet.

That felt like a stream of soft caramel... <3

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
#1428 - 2016-01-04 17:44:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
MidnightWyvern wrote:
Kuronaga wrote:
Roberta Gastoni wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
So what?
Go there and stop paying our sub here.
Stop wasting isk or plex for something you don't want.

You don't do that, though. You don't go to your friends and post on the SC forums,
no, you post here. You lack any believability whatsoever, just like every single one of
you folks who declare they leave for any other game.

Except Indah. Indah doesn't attempt to bullshit us about leaving for other games.
I guess she got that going for herself... which is actually nice.


You know, regardless of the game, everywhere is the same.

If you go on a wow forums, it's full of naysayers calling for its imminent death and how they are going to quit, or even worse, they actually don't play it anymore but they feel the need to tell everybody how the game is bad and they should leave it.

Then you move on EvE forums, and it's the same.

Even worse are the people who wish to turn a game into another, because they loved that other game, but they don't play it anymore, but they would love to see it here, in the new game. This basically summarize this thread.

People wish to have aspects of Second Life, Star Citizen and even WoW into EvE, but they don't actually play anymore (or ever played) those games. And the more a game survive over the time, the less it's going to be like other games, because clones have a short lifespan.

Don't be denial people, all the WoW clones died, all, every single one from Wildstar to SW:ToR passing from Elder Scrolls online and its hundred of bugs (yes, hundreds, it's not a made up number, at the release it was unplayable), and you wish to have a clone feature of some other game, without any real benefit to the real EvE gameplay implemented instead of other gameplay changes or additions? You guys really want to return shooting the jita monument, don't you?

I'll leave an old school, iconic and ironic photoshop of the original EvE poster:

EvE Poster

And a relevant reddit post:

Reddit - 2006 EvE

This is the spirit of EvE, this is the vision of the game and this is the game most of us signed for. When I'll want to walk into a ship hangar, I'll go donate 50 euros to Chris Roberts.

P.s. Now that I think about it, I should probably make a corp called Robertas Space Industries and have a RSI. tag



Generally when you get into such a game there is a certain time commitment if you want to make it worth your while. And if the range of activities in that game is limited, of course you begin to feel bored and begin questioning whether or not the game has any kind of lasting future. The majority of EVE's most lucrative activities are fairly passive, so even when incredibly successful its easy to get that feeling as I have.

That said, the wider the range of activities available the less likely one is to become bored and go elsewhere. They need only distract themselves with a different corner of the game, rather than a different game. Too much focus on a certain thing results in feelings of exodus. For that reason, yes, I do support an entirely different style of gameplay for WiS content. Whether its entirely social, is a glorified housing/trophy room, involves smuggling, or is simply loaded with minigame distractions... whatever. More activities are better and there is only so much you can do with a space ship.

None of the content we've gotten in the last three years has meant anything to me because at the end of the day its all the same stuff. No matter how many different ships CCP adds all they really do is fly, mine, shoot, and explode. I'm over it, really.

Is that to suggest that with those new, alternate experiences you'd eventually be attracted back to ship Combat? That is the point of this game after all.



I simply want a one-package game universe that gives me everything. Given the fact its been marketed to do exactly that in the past, I don't feel its an unreasonable expectation. Whether or not its technically under the EVE client seems a rather moot point now that Dust is its own thing, though it would certainly be more convenient if it was actually operable.
MidnightWyvern
The Bosena Accords
#1429 - 2016-01-04 17:47:47 UTC  |  Edited by: MidnightWyvern
Jenn aSide wrote:
Roberta Gastoni wrote:


You know, regardless of the game, everywhere is the same.


This is because the common denominator is 'people' lol. 'People' are almost never satisfied with anything. That's ok, that's them. What I tend to find annoying isn't that these 'people' exist, it's that they look at those of us who aren't like them, who can actually be satisfied with a thing (probably because we don't believe the universe owe us everything just because we want it)....) like we're the ones with the problem lol.

If you go back in this very thread you can find where I linked some posts from World of Tanks forums where people plead for and demand INFANTRY....in a game called "World of TANKS". This despite the plethora of other , more complete war games that have infantry that they could be playing.

They expect the world to cater to them, rather than them having to adapt to the world. My problem with the WiS crowd doesn't come from the fact that some dude sitting in front of a computer wants to have avatar stuff in EVE so that they can sit at a bar that doesn't exist and drink beverages they can't taste while staring out a window at an imaginary planet. To each his own. The problem comes from their constant nattering about how easy it would all be for someone (who isn't them) to add that kind of stuff to EVE despite CCP's track record with such things.



Well you realize part of the reason we still talk about this is they were almost done? They had a buggy but functional working prototype set up for FanFest back in 2009, and they mentioned on several occasions in 2011 before the big ruckus that they were on track to have station interiors ready before the end of the year.

It's not like we're asking them to drop spaceship development and focus only on WiS, it's that we want them to finish the work they'd almost completed and release it.
Kuronaga wrote:

I simply want a one-package game universe that gives me everything. Given the fact its been marketed to do exactly that in the past, I don't feel its an unreasonable expectation.

I want that as well, and it's part of why I always thought WiS was cool even if it was just "Multiplayer Barbie Dress-Up" and additional content wouldn't be coming till later.

I still think it would be an excellent tool for mingling of player communities between their three games.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)

Arya Ikahrus
#1430 - 2016-01-04 18:01:06 UTC
MidnightWyvern wrote:
I want that as well, and it's part of why I always thought WiS was cool even if it was just "Multiplayer Barbie Dress-Up" and additional content wouldn't be coming till later.

I still think it would be an excellent tool for mingling of player communities between their three games.


Some places for Capsuleers, Dusties and Valkyries to mingle would be nice. A bar with some mini-games and betting, a command room with maps that can have notes and such scribbled on them, maybe invite some people to my hangar to look at my latest pointless & expensive ship that I daren't undock.

I also hope they follow through on that vague plan they had to let this one character I'm using be the one I use in all 3 games.
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
#1431 - 2016-01-04 18:07:19 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Roberta Gastoni wrote:


You know, regardless of the game, everywhere is the same.


This is because the common denominator is 'people' lol. 'People' are almost never satisfied with anything. That's ok, that's them. What I tend to find annoying isn't that these 'people' exist, it's that they look at those of us who aren't like them, who can actually be satisfied with a thing (probably because we don't believe the universe owe us everything just because we want it)....) like we're the ones with the problem lol.

If you go back in this very thread you can find where I linked some posts from World of Tanks forums where people plead for and demand INFANTRY....in a game called "World of TANKS". This despite the plethora of other , more complete war games that have infantry that they could be playing.

They expect the world to cater to them, rather than them having to adapt to the world. My problem with the WiS crowd doesn't come from the fact that some dude sitting in front of a computer wants to have avatar stuff in EVE so that they can sit at a bar that doesn't exist and drink beverages they can't taste while staring out a window at an imaginary planet. To each his own. The problem comes from their constant nattering about how easy it would all be for someone (who isn't them) to add that kind of stuff to EVE despite CCP's track record with such things.





It's not easy at all. But it was marketed as going to happen for years, it was developed for years. EVE was never called world of spaceships. Assets are there. Some usable, some dated. Concepts are there. Some usable, some not.

Easy to implement? Well, clearly not. It took them months to do a single room, though word from ex-employees was that particular team was fairly incompetent. Ultimately its a thing thats wanted and whether or not its part of the eve client is fairly moot as long as its done well.

The biggest roadblock isn't whether or not it adds anything to the game, technical limitations or whether or not the players want it. The biggest roadblock is whether or not CCP can stop being bad at anything that isn't a numbers tweak long enough for new content to actually become good. That, really, is the problem. If it's not a spaceship CCP tends to screw it up. Took a long time before we got ourselves a Rattati for Dust, and they had to pull him out of some financial office or something. Talk about an unlikely savior.
Arya Ikahrus
#1432 - 2016-01-04 18:22:40 UTC
They could start small. Create a room to represent the Corp offices we rent, a fancy table that can show various maps in the middle, big window of space, bar in the back corner with a few tables with poker and chess on them.
No official in-game gambling, if it's corp mates you could just trust each other (which of course could lead to stealing, which at some point in the future could lead to shooting! I'm getting carried away...)
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
#1433 - 2016-01-04 18:28:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
Problem with starting small is one side of the fence criticizes them for using it as an excuse to drag out development and get nothing done, and on the other side you get people whining that the small thing "adds nothing to gameplay" and "takes away from spaceship development".


So the only way both sides are content is if CCP suddenly and magically releases a bunch of "meaningful content" all at once so it cant get in the way of anything and doesn't feel like a slow bleedout.... which is obviously impossible.

I mean they might be able to pull something like that off with a really big additional dev team, but seeing as how we've got them working on throwaway VR fads that doesn't seem to be the reality right now.
Solecist Project
#1434 - 2016-01-04 19:30:50 UTC
Kuronaga wrote:
Problem with starting small is one side of the fence criticizes them for using it as an excuse to drag out development and get nothing done, and on the other side you get people whining that the small thing "adds nothing to gameplay" and "takes away from spaceship development".


So the only way both sides are content is if CCP suddenly and magically releases a bunch of "meaningful content" all at once so it cant get in the way of anything and doesn't feel like a slow bleedout.... which is obviously impossible.

I mean they might be able to pull something like that off with a really big additional dev team, but seeing as how we've got them working on throwaway VR fads that doesn't seem to be the reality right now.

Errr ... no.

When CCP tells them "We start small" then people will accept that "they start small".

PLUS: There will ALWAYS be whining, so you have no argument in that direction.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1435 - 2016-01-04 20:04:29 UTC
Kuronaga wrote:
I mean they might be able to pull something like that off with a really big additional dev team, but seeing as how we've got them working on throwaway VR fads that doesn't seem to be the reality right now.


The VR stuff they are pulling out with valkyre is quite different, as Valkyre is going to be bundled with the Oculus Rift headset.

Now, when you bundle a software with a hardware, the company selling the hardware makes a deal with the software company saying "we buy you XXX licenses of the game for a special price" where XXX is the number of hardware pieces they wish to bundle.

In the case of EvE: Valkyre the hardware company much likely bought a certain number of copies while the game was in the developing status or simply gave a certain amount of money in exchange of having a game tailored for their hardware. I admit, I'm not really into this, so details may vary, but it's basically what the consoles do every day, and CCP has done it already with dust.

My point is making a game for an hardware piece or console has it's monetary upsides and it's going to be a positive revenue for the company making it, but the size of its dev team is probably totally not influent to EvE. At best we might end up with some high render model of ships used in Valkyre ported into EvE.

And as a last note, most companies (and videogame ones are no exeption) hire workers "per project", meaning you get hired to work on a certain thing / project / part of project, and once your job is done the contract is resolved, so you also risk to not have Valkyre devs working on EvE once the project is done. Probably the dev team is going to be downsized to keep the game updated and patched over time.

So stop look at valkyre as something that's stealing dev power from EvE as the project as most likely parallels and not tangential to each other.
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1436 - 2016-01-04 20:10:38 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

Errr ... no.

When CCP tells them "We start small" then people will accept that "they start small".

PLUS: There will ALWAYS be whining, so you have no argument in that direction.


Actually it's better to not even say anything to the people until you have something in your hands, because "we start small" multiplied by the "hype train" can have disastrous effects.

Look at this thread, WiS was hyped to insane levels, failed to meet even the lowest expectation and ended up... like we see it now: A blue arrow near "undock" to enter the "avatar and spaceship screenshot mode".

Very nice ones I've to say, thanks to the GTX 980 I've on.
Solecist Project
#1437 - 2016-01-04 20:32:23 UTC
Roberta Gastoni wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:

Errr ... no.

When CCP tells them "We start small" then people will accept that "they start small".

PLUS: There will ALWAYS be whining, so you have no argument in that direction.


Actually it's better to not even say anything to the people until you have something in your hands, because "we start small" multiplied by the "hype train" can have disastrous effects.

Look at this thread, WiS was hyped to insane levels, failed to meet even the lowest expectation and ended up... like we see it now: A blue arrow near "undock" to enter the "avatar and spaceship screenshot mode".

Very nice ones I've to say, thanks to the GTX 980 I've on.

Uhm ... my GTX765m produces the exact same result ...
... just as my last generation notebook ...
... and tbh image quality in that room isn't the best. :p


And you're right ... they should just say nothing at all. ^_^

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Arya Ikahrus
#1438 - 2016-01-04 21:36:07 UTC
Next patch notes:

- Surprise WiS! Corp office plus minigames chumps!
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
#1439 - 2016-01-04 22:10:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
Solecist Project wrote:
Kuronaga wrote:
Problem with starting small is one side of the fence criticizes them for using it as an excuse to drag out development and get nothing done, and on the other side you get people whining that the small thing "adds nothing to gameplay" and "takes away from spaceship development".


So the only way both sides are content is if CCP suddenly and magically releases a bunch of "meaningful content" all at once so it cant get in the way of anything and doesn't feel like a slow bleedout.... which is obviously impossible.

I mean they might be able to pull something like that off with a really big additional dev team, but seeing as how we've got them working on throwaway VR fads that doesn't seem to be the reality right now.

Errr ... no.

When CCP tells them "We start small" then people will accept that "they start small".




And then immediately get shelved afterwards, thereby staying small.

Pretty sure most of us have been around the block a few times by now.

What big project by CCP has ever reached its planned, climactic conclusion? In the history of ever?
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#1440 - 2016-01-04 22:26:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Kuronaga wrote:
What big project by CCP has ever reached its planned, climactic conclusion? In the history of ever?

Lot's of smaller projects along the way in the overall big project that is Eve, but it's hard to look past the game itself as a major success for CCP.

I guess the good thing about Eve as a whole is there is no major climactic conclusion.

It's been in continuous development for more than 15 years now and playable for 13 of those.