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Walking in stations

First post
Author
Tristan Agion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1341 - 2015-12-30 20:45:22 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
That being said, I'd love to see a kickstarter for this. It would shut up the WiS fringe one way or another. It won't happen, the kinds of people who want to see WiS (or other 'mass appeal' type things to 'bring in more people') are the kind of folks who think "well, that's CCPs job to give us stuff, not mine".

To be fair, I don't think anybody but CCP could actually kickstart a direct software expansion of EVE. Even if there were no legal issues (and unless CCP grants explicit permission, there very much would be), then it would still make no sense to have development for EVE with no connection to CCP. And nobody is going to cowdfund a campaign which says "if successful, we will take this money to CCP and ask nicely whether they would be willing to do something with it."

However, CCP could easily run a very nice kickstarter campaign. They certainly know how to make a nice advertisement trailer, they could easily offer a range of game-related or even game-internal rewards, and they obviously have all the necessary rights to the software assets.

In fact, quite apart from this particular case WiS, I think semi-regular kickstarter campaigns might be a nice way for CCP to develop specific side projects that players request. I'm sure people can think of other things in EVE that "need to be done"...
Solecist Project
#1342 - 2015-12-30 20:52:04 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
That being said, I'd love to see a kickstarter for this. It would shut up the WiS fringe one way or another. It won't happen, the kinds of people who want to see WiS (or other 'mass appeal' type things to 'bring in more people') are the kind of folks who think "well, that's CCPs job to give us stuff, not mine".

To be fair, I don't think anybody but CCP could actually kickstart a direct software expansion of EVE. Even if there were no legal issues (and unless CCP grants explicit permission, there very much would be), then it would still make no sense to have development for EVE with no connection to CCP. And nobody is going to cowdfund a campaign which says "if successful, we will take this money to CCP and ask nicely whether they would be willing to do something with it."

However, CCP could easily run a very nice kickstarter campaign. They certainly know how to make a nice advertisement trailer, they could easily offer a range of game-related or even game-internal rewards, and they obviously have all the necessary rights to the software assets.

In fact, quite apart from this particular case WiS, I think semi-regular kickstarter campaigns might be a nice way for CCP to develop specific side projects that players request. I'm sure people can think of other things in EVE that "need to be done"...

They could hire Chris Roberts to do it for them.
Last I've heard he's pretty good at collecting money from idiots people.

Though, you *are* right. The idea is interesting. Has that actually been done before? I mean, a company having a running product, starting a kickstarter for a specific expansion of it. I do wonder if that'll make their lawyers jump out of the window, though. Not sure this wouldn't set some very odd precedent and suddenly ...

Imagine a world in that people pay for a game that doesn't even exist yet. They throw all the money at the developer before, not after the product is finished. Imagine that! It would be ideal! No more wasted resources! People always only ever get what they want and no developer would have to be afraid of risking spending months/millions on something no one wants.

That sounds too good to be true, if you ask me....

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Jenshae Chiroptera
#1343 - 2015-12-30 21:08:31 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
If you have the cash, then you can hire the capability and willingness.

This stuff isn't exactly cutting edge nowadays, isn't it? In particular not if you start with non-combat, social interactions where you do not have to worry about millisecond timings, rag doll physics, etc. ....
They are beyond that.

Dust is there.

All it needs is porting and adapting so that we can transition between EVE and Dust via Captain's Quarter's door.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Tristan Agion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1344 - 2015-12-30 21:52:38 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Though, you *are* right. The idea is interesting. Has that actually been done before? I mean, a company having a running product, starting a kickstarter for a specific expansion of it. I do wonder if that'll make their lawyers jump out of the window, though. Not sure this wouldn't set some very odd precedent and suddenly ....

FWIW, I have opened a dedicated thread for the general idea of kickstarting special developments over in the ideas section. I suggest to move the discussion there unless it's about something specific to kickstarting WiS.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#1345 - 2015-12-30 22:37:23 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Though, you *are* right. The idea is interesting. Has that actually been done before? I mean, a company having a running product, starting a kickstarter for a specific expansion of it. I do wonder if that'll make their lawyers jump out of the window, though. Not sure this wouldn't set some very odd precedent and suddenly ....

FWIW, I have opened a dedicated thread for the general idea of kickstarting special developments over in the ideas section. I suggest to move the discussion there unless it's about something specific to kickstarting WiS.


why do you want to kickstart things? do you think ccp dont have the knowledge and money to make the game how they want? just because they dont do something that you want doesnt mean they are poor

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Solecist Project
#1346 - 2015-12-30 22:55:49 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Tristan Agion wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Though, you *are* right. The idea is interesting. Has that actually been done before? I mean, a company having a running product, starting a kickstarter for a specific expansion of it. I do wonder if that'll make their lawyers jump out of the window, though. Not sure this wouldn't set some very odd precedent and suddenly ....

FWIW, I have opened a dedicated thread for the general idea of kickstarting special developments over in the ideas section. I suggest to move the discussion there unless it's about something specific to kickstarting WiS.


why do you want to kickstart things? do you think ccp dont have the knowledge and money to make the game how they want? just because they dont do something that you want doesnt mean they are poor

Irrelevant to his valid attempt, though.
Critisize the idea, not the attempt...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1347 - 2015-12-30 23:03:44 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
I've read only the first 25 pages of this thread... so excuse me if I repeat a suggestion already made.

But why not simply crowdfund WiS development?

Set a target of US$1M, or whatever would be enough to get something meaningful done, and see whether it flies on kickstarter.

WiS supporters could put their money where their mouth is. And those disinterested in WiS would not need to worry about it cannibalising other EVE development.

I made a Features and Ideas thread about this, and it was quickly locked for trolling.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1348 - 2015-12-30 23:08:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
in seriousness i imagine there's a lack of capability and willingness on ccp's part. it's not just a matter of cash


Along with the fact that EVE is old and full of 'spaghetti code' and thus a really bad candidate for 'rigging stuff onto'.

That being said, I'd love to see a kickstarter for this. It would shut up the WiS fringe one way or another.

It won't happen, the kinds of people who want to see WiS (or other 'mass appeal' type things to 'bring in more people') are the kind of folks who think "well, that's CCPs job to give us stuff, not mine".



EVE is much less full of spaghetti code than it used to be. The refactoring project started in 2011, and each expansion after Crucible was based around refactoring a feature code block; Crimewatch, Faction Warfare, Science & Industry, Structures etc. The latest refactoring was or is the Dogma code (headlined with the Brain In A Box project). There are still some very big bowls of pasta left, I think (eg: NPCs, the Corp/Alliance code), but more has been done than remains to do.

But which features would a hypothetical WiS project need to interect with? Well existing NPCs, not so much, sure. But the Corp/alliance code? Yeah quite probably.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Solecist Project
#1349 - 2015-12-30 23:09:32 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Tristan Agion wrote:
I've read only the first 25 pages of this thread... so excuse me if I repeat a suggestion already made.

But why not simply crowdfund WiS development?

Set a target of US$1M, or whatever would be enough to get something meaningful done, and see whether it flies on kickstarter.

WiS supporters could put their money where their mouth is. And those disinterested in WiS would not need to worry about it cannibalising other EVE development.

I made a Features and Ideas thread about this, and it was quickly locked for trolling.
*takes glasses off*








One could say, they've ...









*puts glasses back on*















... rained upon you.


That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1350 - 2015-12-30 23:25:14 UTC
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#1351 - 2015-12-30 23:41:36 UTC
MidnightWyvern wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Avvy wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Why brawls?


So they can get to those that don't leave the station.

Not that it would do any good, because if they don't leave the station they're unlikely to leave the Captain's Cabin. Especially if they can still do everything from there and there would be no real reason to change that.

If I remember correctly, WiS was always planned to be conflict free. There was going to be no way to kill someone else.

That was tied into Lore about our cloning technology (different from DUSTies), which of course could be changed, but was never part of the original development.

Okay, at the risk of being slightly off topic, I have no idea why I have a Blue tag for Excellent Standings next to your portrait.

I don't recall ever meeting you and I am not familiar with your Corporation.

I'm seeing some mysterious Excellent tags on portraits too. Bug thing?

By the way, if we get WiS, will our contacts' standings with us show over their heads? Blue plus sign over this guy, red minus sign over that one? Sort of like in FPSs? We need some kind of intel. I'd hate to accidentally buy a drink for a Goon. (JJ) P
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1352 - 2015-12-30 23:47:36 UTC
as if we wouldn't create a hangout called the greater fool bar in some buttcrack corner of EVE.
Solecist Project
#1353 - 2015-12-30 23:49:41 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
It's good to have you back sol
I don't believe that, though I appreciate the good will behind the lie... :)

I've resubbed for thirty days ...
... twenty-seven days ago.

Unlike Indah can't I be hooked by generic content and hauling isn't my thing either ...
... but as of tomorrow can I fly a Sabre ...
... so maybe I will add another 30 days.


Ya know ... we sell children magazines with crap in them and ... and once I've found one with a soap bubble thingy. So l took it, went outside onto the street and filled the air ... and the streets ... the whole crossing with a bus driving through ... with shiny little bubbles everyone admired and smiled at, because people love soap bubbles! They make people happy! :D

































And not a single car crash happened either. ^_^

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Pix Severus
Empty You
#1354 - 2015-12-31 00:19:18 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
MidnightWyvern wrote:

Okay, at the risk of being slightly off topic, I have no idea why I have a Blue tag for Excellent Standings next to your portrait.

I don't recall ever meeting you and I am not familiar with your Corporation.

I'm seeing some mysterious Excellent tags on portraits too. Bug thing?


Known bug, at least it was when I first noticed it years ago.

I swear I was once blue to myself on these forums too, must mean I was being excellent to myself.

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide

Tristan Agion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1355 - 2015-12-31 01:39:29 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
why do you want to kickstart things? do you think ccp dont have the knowledge and money to make the game how they want?

I don't really know, but yes, it all seems a bit understaffed and under-resourced to me. And in consequence of that, I wouldn't be surprised if some technical know-how was also lacking here or there. (That's not meant a an insult to any of these professionals, but would simply be a consequence of the level of specialisation typical in software creation.)

Mind you, for me that's all based on anecdotal data. For example, it seems like there is one guy only working on the new probe scanner. Or I hear someone mentioning that there are only two artists now working on apparel (and skins?). That sort of thing...
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1356 - 2015-12-31 22:14:00 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
why do you want to kickstart things? do you think ccp dont have the knowledge and money to make the game how they want?

I don't really know, but yes, it all seems a bit understaffed and under-resourced to me. And in consequence of that, I wouldn't be surprised if some technical know-how was also lacking here or there. (That's not meant a an insult to any of these professionals, but would simply be a consequence of the level of specialisation typical in software creation.)

Mind you, for me that's all based on anecdotal data. For example, it seems like there is one guy only working on the new probe scanner. Or I hear someone mentioning that there are only two artists now working on apparel (and skins?). That sort of thing...


Do you know who it was that developed Carbon technology in the first place? The tragic irony of Incarna was that it was exceptional technology, but poorly implemented, and as a result, it's technology that's largely fallen by the wayside. They have the technical expertise already. They just got done making a FPS a few years ago, you know that right?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#1357 - 2015-12-31 22:35:55 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
why do you want to kickstart things? do you think ccp dont have the knowledge and money to make the game how they want?

I don't really know, but yes, it all seems a bit understaffed and under-resourced to me. And in consequence of that, I wouldn't be surprised if some technical know-how was also lacking here or there. (That's not meant a an insult to any of these professionals, but would simply be a consequence of the level of specialisation typical in software creation.)

Mind you, for me that's all based on anecdotal data. For example, it seems like there is one guy only working on the new probe scanner. Or I hear someone mentioning that there are only two artists now working on apparel (and skins?). That sort of thing...


how many people do you think they need to be working on things like this, do they need 10 people to work on a probe scanner?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#1358 - 2015-12-31 23:54:42 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Tristan Agion wrote:
I've read only the first 25 pages of this thread... so excuse me if I repeat a suggestion already made.

But why not simply crowdfund WiS development?

Set a target of US$1M, or whatever would be enough to get something meaningful done, and see whether it flies on kickstarter.

WiS supporters could put their money where their mouth is. And those disinterested in WiS would not need to worry about it cannibalising other EVE development.

I made a Features and Ideas thread about this, and it was quickly locked for trolling.

They obviously dont want to go into that river second time, even when the river isnt the same and first time only their ankles were wet.
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1359 - 2016-01-01 00:58:37 UTC
The question about walking in stations is not about if it can be made, or if it should be made instead of something else, but what kind of gameplay can it offer to people who mostly play EvE to shoot each other in space ships.

At this moment the captain quarters are nothing more than a gloried side menu, as everything you can do in it can be done already with a few click in the ship hangar.

And what if you could do see the other pilot docked in your station? In which way would you interact with them? Would you build station interiors and re optimize the old code just to /wave at your corp mates and do a /rude gesture at someone from an opposing corp? Or make your character run to the market interface while you can simply click it in the ship hangar?

I think all of us signed up for a game where spaceships kill other spaceships, loot other spaceships, build spaceships, mine asteroid and gas with spaceships and harvest tears thanks to the spaceships. No one signed up for second life in space.

However, let face it, don't we want to see more of our avatars? I'll give you a practical example... look at most of the people on this forums, they all made avatars that should represent them, both here and in game, while they spam and they gank. This game does not need walk in station, need better avatar customization and better avatar representations, or way to show them to the others.

Sorry for my usual long posts, but I've some people in contact list I keep only to see how their avatar will look today, people like solecist at example.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1360 - 2016-01-01 01:54:32 UTC
Please people stop digging up old threats. The issue is already been solve long time ago. Stop debating on subjects there are no interesting in its current state.