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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

First post
Author
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3081 - 2015-12-27 15:45:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Also, I just saw your latest loss, a retriever. This here is the thing, IF you had been paying attention to the forums, help channels, looked up guides or read wikis (like EVE Uni's) you'd have learned that using a retriever is a dumb thing to do.

Barges and Exhumers come in 3 variations:

- one mines the fastest
- one has the biggest ore hold
- one isn't a gank target

Smart people choose wisely, you chose poorly. On top of that you also lost your pod which shows that you weren't even paying attention AND you did it in a fairly obvious system as well. Simply put: you refused to put in some brain effort, reading and planning, the result is that you blew up. If you don't like blowing up then I suggest you start putting some thought & effort into your play time.

A simple question in Rookie or Help would have given you the "don't mine in a retriever, it's just not safe" answer. You chose not to think or plan and thus you chose to become a target.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3082 - 2015-12-27 15:46:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Cam Me'Leone wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Cam Me'Leone wrote:

Ships get blown up in low-sec & incursion points all the time. I don't need gankers as clients. Just like they can get everything they need from their null sec buddies. I get it. Hi-sec mining is a waste of time.


Gankers destroy trillions more than they lose. The gankers aren't your clients. Their victims are.

Cam Me'Leone wrote:

The most useful response I've gotten. Thank you.

To your point, I wasn't aware I needed to treat mining in hi-sec the same as mining in low-sec. Things have changed a lot in 3 years.


No they haven't, high sec has never been safe. Just because you haven't caught onto that in three years doesn't mean anything has changed.



Nope. New players can't afford to build barges. We can scarcely afford to buy them.


You're not new, you've been here three years apparently. And you just lost a Retreiver not that long ago. That being said, this is only relevant to miners that also do building. The minerals and ore a miner provides goes more to the victims of ganking than the gankers themselves. But at this point, you're intentionally ignoring the points I'm making and refusing to adapt, which is your own problem. And since gankers go predominantly after barges and freighters, all you did is just support the argument that new player ganking isn't as proliferant as it's asserted to be by people using new players as shields for their own risk aversion. Because new players can't afford barges and freighters. Am I right?

Dude, you can continue with your blind denial of the facts people are presenting you, or you can learn something from it and become better at the game. The choice is yours. But your excuses are some of the more transparent ones around here tbqfh.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3083 - 2015-12-27 15:54:33 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Mind you that with the increased grid sizes escaping a gank before it happens is even easier now. There's has been over two dozen direct & indirect nerfs to ganking over the last 7 years yet people still complain about highsec ganking.

Ironically enough, long ago Goons offered information on how to survive a gank attempt with ship fittings.

Friend of mine (unintentionally) tested the set-up one night against a ganker in his Hulk. Ganker got through armor and just started touching hull when he decided to turn on his various shields. Kept mining while Concord eventually arrived to deal with the ganker. It was a lower end of high sec - 0.6 or 0.7, but the information is (was) available to survive.


The Hulk used to be the go to for mining as it was the only ore orientated exhumer & it also had the best EHP potential. Of course that is no longer the case but it's nice to see that not only did someone listen, they implemented the advice & survived as a result.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3084 - 2015-12-27 15:57:11 UTC
Cam Me'Leone wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Cam Me'Leone wrote:

Ships get blown up in low-sec & incursion points all the time. I don't need gankers as clients. Just like they can get everything they need from their null sec buddies. I get it. Hi-sec mining is a waste of time.


Gankers destroy trillions more than they lose. The gankers aren't your clients. Their victims are.

Cam Me'Leone wrote:

The most useful response I've gotten. Thank you.

To your point, I wasn't aware I needed to treat mining in hi-sec the same as mining in low-sec. Things have changed a lot in 3 years.


No they haven't, high sec has never been safe. Just because you haven't caught onto that in three years doesn't mean anything has changed.



Nope. New players can't afford to build barges. We can scarcely afford to buy them.


Barges aren't exactly intended for new players. That was the whole idea behind the mining frigate with the obscenely large ore hold.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Solecist Project
#3085 - 2015-12-27 15:58:27 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Also, I just saw your latest loss, a retriever. This here is the thing, IF you had been paying attention to the forums, help channels, looked up guides or read wikis (like EVE Uni's) you'd have learned that using a retriever is a dumb thing to do.

Barges and Exhumers come in 3 variations:

- one mines the fastest
- one has the biggest ore hold
- one isn't a gank target

Smart people choose wisely, you chose poorly. On top of that you also lost your pod which shows that you weren't even paying attention AND you did it in a fairly obvious system as well. Simply put: you refused to put in some brain effort, reading and planning, the result is that you blew up. If you don't like blowing up then I suggest you start putting some thought & effort into your play time.

A simple question in Rookie or Help would have given you the "don't mine in a retriever, it's just not safe" answer. You chose not to think or plan and thus you chose to become a target.
It's a stupid answer, though.
Absolutely batshit dumb answer.

It's only not safe, because they're doing it wrong ...
... not because they pick the wrong ship.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3086 - 2015-12-27 16:00:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
For an inactive player like he is, with the knowledge that he has it is the right answer. You just don't like procurers and skiffs :)
Cam Me'Leone
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3087 - 2015-12-27 16:19:23 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


You're not new, you've been here three years apparently.


Just to clarify this point, I started playing in 2012 & haven't played for about 3 years. So I have a little less than a year of play time, most of which was in 2012. Back then I don't recall there being entire corps dedicated to ganking & extorting hi-sec miners.

Also the "if you had bothered to research it" argument is not a great one. As is apparent in these comments, there is a different answer from everyone you ask. There is no way to decipher who is full of crap and who isn't and it's all opinion anyway.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3088 - 2015-12-27 16:29:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Cam Me'Leone wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


You're not new, you've been here three years apparently.


Just to clarify this point, I started playing in 2012 & haven't played for about 3 years. So I have a little less than a year of play time, most of which was in 2012. Back then I don't recall there being entire corps dedicated to ganking & extorting hi-sec miners.

Also the "if you had bothered to research it" argument is not a great one. As is apparent in these comments, there is a different answer from everyone you ask. There is no way to decipher who is full of crap and who isn't and it's all opinion anyway.


You didn't try and then got 839457 different answers and go "wth", you chose to not even try and ask nor pay attention. You died because of your own lack of effort both in the planning phase as the execution phase. Blame yourself, learn from it, adapt. Or don't and keep dying.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3089 - 2015-12-27 16:42:30 UTC
Cam Me'Leone wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


You're not new, you've been here three years apparently.


Just to clarify this point, I started playing in 2012 & haven't played for about 3 years. So I have a little less than a year of play time, most of which was in 2012. Back then I don't recall there being entire corps dedicated to ganking & extorting hi-sec miners.

Also the "if you had bothered to research it" argument is not a great one. As is apparent in these comments, there is a different answer from everyone you ask. There is no way to decipher who is full of crap and who isn't and it's all opinion anyway.


Convenient that you would pick the only part of my post that you could actually produce an argument against, isn't it. Even if it did miss the point of why I said it. I'll take that as acceptance of the rest of what I said then. I'm glad you've finally learned something.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Cam Me'Leone
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3090 - 2015-12-27 18:56:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Cam Me'Leone
I think I have the answers I was looking for.

I'm a casual player. I can scrounge together about 5 hours a week (30-60 minutes at a time) to myself. That's my time. It will take 2-3 months for me to recoup my losses. During which time I'm likely to get ganked again. It's a never ending spiral down to bankruptcy. For no other reason than someone wants to feel good about being able to hinder someone else.

I thought EVE was a game I could play a little at a time. Unlike other online games where I might need 2 hours of uninterrupted time to run a mission.

I also thought it would be the kind of game where I could mind my own business and not be bothered or go in for something more (like pvp) when I have the time. If I was a big PVP guy with unlimited time to play, I'd buy a PS4.

The gankers are pretty clear that they believe EVE would be "better" without players like me.

I posted here to see if that was a minority opinion or a prevailing one. The prevailing opinion seems to be "if you walk down the street in New Eden in broad daylight without a gun on your hip; you should expect to get mugged" PVP is a requirement; a fact of life. That's fine if that's the answer. I'm not here to try and change anyone's opinion.

I posted my questions in this thread because it's about subscriptions. CCP clearly wants old players to come back (or else I wouldn't have gotten 3 months of play time for $10). I can't speak for "everyone". But I can speak for myself and other casual players like me. We are not welcome in EVE. There is no way to avoid the noids. EVE is not the game I am looking for.
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#3091 - 2015-12-27 19:28:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Cam Me'Leone wrote:
It will take 2-3 months for me to recoup my losses. During which time I'm likely to get ganked again. It's a never ending spiral down to bankruptcy. For no other reason than someone wants to feel good about being able to hinder someone else.

That's only true if you do the same thing over again.

If you accept that your gank loss was your responsibility and totally avoidable, then you can start thinking about ways you can change your in game behavior so it doesn't occur again.

While you continue to externalize the blame and believe it's all out of your control, then yeah it's likely to happen again.

Cam Me'Leone wrote:
I thought EVE was a game I could play a little at a time. Unlike other online games where I might need 2 hours of uninterrupted time to run a mission.

I also thought it would be the kind of game where I could mind my own business and not be bothered or go in for something more (like pvp) when I have the time. If I was a big PVP guy with unlimited time to play, I'd buy a PS4.

It can be both of these things quite easily.

Cam Me'Leone wrote:
The gankers are pretty clear that they believe EVE would be "better" without players like me.

So what? What does it matter in the slightest what someone else thinks? They don't dictate how you play the game or what you can attempt to do in the game.

The only thing they can do is play their game, not yours. Sometimes that will result in conflict, but you are totally able to dictate how that occurs, rather than letting them dictate it.

Cam Me'Leone wrote:
I posted here to see if that was a minority opinion or a prevailing one. The prevailing opinion seems to be "if you walk down the street in New Eden in broad daylight without a gun on your hip; you should expect to get mugged" PVP is a requirement; a fact of life. That's fine if that's the answer. I'm not here to try and change anyone's opinion.

Yet, many people successfully mine away in highsec daily without being ganked.

You don't need a gun to defend yourself. There are many other choices you have available.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#3092 - 2015-12-27 20:14:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Cam Me'Leone wrote:
I think I have the answers I was looking for.

The prevailing opinion seems to be "if you walk down the street in New Eden in broad daylight without a gun on your hip; you should expect to get mugged" PVP is a requirement; a fact of life.

You found the answer you were looking for as part of a mission to post badly on eveo forums.

+1 karma

Cam Me'Leone wrote:
I'm a casual player. I can scrounge together about 5 hours a week (30-60 minutes at a time) to myself. That's my time. It will take 2-3 months for me to recoup my losses. During which time I'm likely to get ganked again.

Imagine if I only plyed an hour a week, it would take me 10-15 months!!

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#3093 - 2015-12-27 20:26:58 UTC
158 pages later, EvE is still alive.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Shuckstar
Blue Dreams Plus
#3094 - 2015-12-27 20:44:46 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
158 pages later, EvE is still alive.


+1 I also resubscribed about a week ago after a 2 month absence (2 months is the longest and only time my accounts have been inactive for 10+years). Reason I took a break was because I was burnt out and starting to dislike EvE. So far been back a week and loving it again. Had my first loss on my alt last night, and it was epic, I alt tabbed in time just to watch my pod die and I must admit I nearly peed myself it was that funny Shocked.

CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#3095 - 2015-12-27 20:52:45 UTC
I have to say, it's pretty weird to read complaints by "new" players that EVE is a fully non consensual PvP model - over twelve years after it was launched.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#3096 - 2015-12-27 22:09:22 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
One minute, you're complaining that people don't have time for EVE, and the next, you're calling it a casual time filler? Dat doublethink...
When was I complainign that people don't have time for EVE?

Remiel Pollard wrote:
First of all, calling out your hyperbole: people playing Elite have known planetary landings and ambulation were intended for the game from the beginning. For EVE, it was tried, and failed, so people don't want it being tried again. Except for a few silly monkeys that are more interested in their own experience rather than the overall health of the game for everyone.
EVE didn't try it and failed, they barely even got the basics in before people were freaking the **** out. And for what? Because it was taking too long? How long have citadels been in the works? How long have destructible stargates been an idea? I have no doubt that a proper attempt at WiS would be a success, not matter what the vocal monument shooting minority claim.

Remiel Pollard wrote:
And there's that "x is a business therefore it's in their best interests...." I'm sorry, but are you visiting the intentions of someone else's head? How do you know what they intend for this game? Are you going to be another one of those "you can't make a game for the sake of providing a game experience first, and making money second". It's just all about the money in business, according to you, isn't it? Which is why games are getting loaded with things like on-disc DLC and exploitative microtransactions, cuz people like you drank the coolaid. I still remember when EA were talking about lowering the price of AAA titles and then went ahead and made them gradually more expensive, with less content. Battlefront anyone?
I don;t need to visit their intentions, they are obvious. They employ people , for money. How long do you think EVE would last if they had nothing to pay their staff or upkeep their servers? Not long mate. It's not about the money for ME, it's about the money for THEM. I would rather they improved game mechanics and widened the playerbase to make the money they need. Since the existing playerbase explodes in a fit of rage when they try that though they are going with microtrans for skins and clothing, and shifting focus to a new development. The fault for that lies with people like you.

Remiel Pollard wrote:
Anyway, you've been expatiating the same rhetoric for as long as I've seen you on these forums and the game continues on. Let me tell you something though, the only times I've wanted to leave are when the game has been made softer and more casual. Like removing SP loss for pod kills. And I just did unsubscribe permanently from SWTOR, which was my casual game that just somehow went and managed to make itself even MORE casual, removing a great deal of content and features that I enjoyed.
So because the only time YOU wanted to leave is when they made the game softer, that applies to everyone does it? I've been playing for over 10 years and have more than 20 accounts, at what point does my opinion count, or does it not simply because you say so? The game may continue on, but it's a shell of what it once was. There's less developers and less players, and this will only worsen when CCP new flagship game comes out. You may want to desperately cling on the the fragments of the old EVE for nostalgias sake, but I would much rather see CCP change it for the better and bring it back to the forefront.

Remiel Pollard wrote:
See, there is a non-casual crowd that exists to be marketed to that the mass-casualification of games just doesn't appeal to. If EVE goes casual, and we leave, someone else will cater to us, and more of you will be there too trying to demand its casualification as well. You already have a tonne of games, and I don't know why you feel the need to try to destroy the niche that I enjoy, but it is people like you destroying the best gaming experiences around and sometimes I wonder if you aren't an EA or Blizzard shill yourself.
EVE is casual. It's a ludicrously easy game with no real challenge. You make a bunch of isk, sit yourself in some cheapass destroyers and volley noobs until the end of time. Pretending that you are somehow better than other gamers would be laughable if it weren't so sad.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Buzz Orti
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3097 - 2015-12-27 22:27:11 UTC
Came in the thread for the numbers of ships in Deklein per minutes, and at which minutes, and left with the data on my second tablet (same model, same price).

Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3098 - 2015-12-27 22:54:22 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I have to say, it's pretty weird to read complaints by "new" players that EVE is a fully non consensual PvP model - over twelve years after it was launched.


Shouldn't be weird to you, as EVE has been dying for that entire time because of said non consensual pvp lol.
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3099 - 2015-12-27 23:00:19 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I have to say, it's pretty weird to read complaints by "new" players that EVE is a fully non consensual PvP model - over twelve years after it was launched.


Shouldn't be weird to you, as EVE has been dying for that entire time because of said non consensual pvp lol.



See, that is what really bothers me about you. Doesn't matter what people actually say, you make the narrative for them by coming up with lies.

My problem with Eve and why I think it is dying is the homogenization of sov sec and power creep in pvp.

0.0 has nothing to fight over because every system can be upgraded, moons are not nearly as important and true sec doesn't matter because belt ratting is dead.

Svipuls, Command Destroyers, bigger, better, faster cruisers have all made entire parts of this game old and outdated. Also the price of things have dropped and isk is so easy to come by (thanks plex), that losing a ship doesn't "hurt" anymore. Only real reason anymore to not fly shinny ships is to keep your killboard positive.

So before you come here in your usual condescending and wholesale pathological manner, try and understand that not all viewpoints on this game are ganker vs. gankee.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3100 - 2015-12-27 23:09:31 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Cam Me'Leone wrote:
I think I have the answers I was looking for.

The prevailing opinion seems to be "if you walk down the street in New Eden in broad daylight without a gun on your hip; you should expect to get mugged" PVP is a requirement; a fact of life.

You found the answer you were looking for as part of a mission to post badly on eveo forums.

+1 karma


+2 damn it

He did inadvertently describe what EVE is, what makes it great, what has drawn many of us to it (I'm from Texas, EVE feels like home Twisted), and what the (as Remy put it) the 'Casualificaiton" (anti-challenge) crowd wants to see destroyed. Hell, it's what CCP has been eroding for the last few years in the understandable but ultimately misguided attempt to broaden the appeal of this game.

By trying to contain/curtail the 'bad people' in the game , CCP has done nothing but nerf those of us who thrived on opposing and surviving against them without 'developer hand outs'.

You can't destroy the core appeal of a game and then be surprised when it declines...