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[December] Tech Two Logistics Frigates

First post
Author
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#61 - 2015-11-29 08:36:15 UTC
Z1gy wrote:
which t1 ships CCP gonna based the t2 hull from ? it was not mentioned in the OP

from the T1 logi versions. SISI models reflect it.
Hilti Enaka
Assisted Homicide
#62 - 2015-11-29 12:57:45 UTC
More barriers to PVP.

Logi needs a rethink all together.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#63 - 2015-11-29 14:07:38 UTC
Funz Orlenard wrote:


Why is the minmatar frigate skill giving way more boost to reps as logistics is doing? I think you should replace bonuses of the skills with one another, makes more sense.


The point is to make them less dependent on sp.

The bonuses have been set up such that not having logi to V doesnt mean you have crippling cap issues and a more significantly weak repping power that will make fc's say 'get logi to V or fly dps'.

This way is better and I hope it is applied to all other logi.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#64 - 2015-11-29 15:48:25 UTC
I tried the pyfa build using singularity stats.

The scalpel does have quite the CPU issues. You can fit an LSE one with about 15k ehp including links and full reps, but getting pithii A-type RR to work will encounter some harsh issues with your CPU. If you're in a fleet full of pros that can make the 10mn work without messing up their transversal to the next best HFI, they'll be dank.

Both the Kirin and the Deacon can be fitted in a cheap way, with absurd tanks. Assuming a links and a hull price of some 30mil, a 70mil Deacon with coreli A-type RR will put out reps rivaling a pimped Exeq while having a 21m sig, 1.2km/s and 23k ehp in a fleet scenario. The Kirin is a bit more spendy, but also racks up similar sig, 22k ehp and 1km/s as stats, with rep output in melee range rivaling that of 3 meta4-scimis today.

As far as T3D gangs go, they finally get their own megatough logistics. Not sure how I feel about logistic frigates with 4.5k armor hp and 80% resists or 5.3k shield hp and 75% avg resists.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#65 - 2015-11-29 17:32:32 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Rowells wrote:
Those speeds seem really weird.

415-405 for three and then a drop to 370 for caldari?

It's important to take mass into account when comparing speeds. With prop mods on, the distribution of speeds across the class is a lot more evenly spread.

Dunk Dinkle wrote:
Do pilots with Logistics skill already trained get grandfathered into the Logistics Frigate skill or will they train it up from zero?

It's a new skill for new ships so everyone will need to train it from zero. It's a pretty easy train though.

big miker wrote:
Remove the signature reduction bonus. They already get a very low base signature radius.
Since low-sec is littered with links and implanted pilots the scalpel and gallente logistics frigate are able to achieve 12m signature radius. http://puu.sh/lzLDA/c8f4aba198.png

The numbers on SISI are a little more extreme than even the original design showed, as they are running with even lower sigs than the OP states on the current SISI build. That being said I do agree that even the original design numbers push sigs a bit too low. In the new iteration of the design I'm increasing base sigs a bit and reducing the strength of the Thalia and Scalpel bonuses. It's possible that they might still be too strong of course, but we can keep an eye on them and see what happens.

afkalt wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The skill formerly known as "Logistics" is now called "Logistics Cruisers"


Is this going to be tied to the frigate skill for people who don't have it trained yet; like happened with the mining frigate introduction?

Like other Tech 2 skills, Logistics Frigate and Logistics Cruisers will not be in a direct prereq chain.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2015-11-29 17:50:51 UTC
Thank you Smile
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#67 - 2015-11-29 20:13:46 UTC
you can still just prevent fitting oversized/undersized prop and fix like 100 problems at once
Kibitt Kallinikov
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#68 - 2015-11-29 20:38:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Those speeds seem really weird.

415-405 for three and then a drop to 370 for caldari?

It's important to take mass into account when comparing speeds. With prop mods on, the distribution of speeds across the class is a lot more evenly spread.


This implies a positive message - that Caldari is more even with the other logi ships (all of them). What it really means is that Amarr is slower than people think it is, and Gal/Min are faster than Cal/Am as per the norm.
Fintarue
Zero.Four Holdings
#69 - 2015-11-29 21:04:32 UTC
Hiya!

As pointed out by Big Miker in a previous post about the t2 logi frigs and signature radius, the signature bonus is easily breakable by the people that would most likely be using these ships.

I propose this, instead of giving the Thalia and Scalpel a signature tank bonus, instead swap it to a local rep bonus. This still keeps the goal in mind of some form of tank bonus that the caldari and amarr t2 frigs have.

This keeps the flavor of the tanking bonuses each race has, and makes it harder to completely break with links and implants.

With the reduction in cap useage on the ships, a cap booster on them will easily run local and remote reps. This is already similar to how I run my t1 logi frigs with local reps.

I know how you like giving the players choices Fozzie, this would also open more choices for the players to decide on how to tank their ships. This also keeps the flavor similar to how the scimitar and oneiros are flown compared to guardian and basalisk

Host of http://www.twitch.tv/fintarue Bringing you the best tunes for the trip to a new clone!

Bob Niac
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2015-11-29 21:10:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Bob Niac
Fozzie has CCP ever considered splitting logi [cruisers] into 2 hulls? I would love to see the removal of split role logi tbh. We have racial remote preferences to use for assistance mods. ( see previous post.)

Doing this would be very much in line with tech 2's directive of specializtion, I think.

[u]I <3 Logistics:[/u] Pilot of all  T2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use.

Mad Abbat
Talon Swarm
#71 - 2015-11-30 00:44:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Mad Abbat
May somebody explain ship stats choices in the current build, and why does Gallente ship has more PG and CPU than Amarr ship?

I can see why it can have more CPU (extra mid slot) but more PG??? Amarr should have more PG to be able to fit better (IN) armor plates.


And why only 10% mass difference?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#72 - 2015-11-30 01:36:10 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Those speeds seem really weird.

415-405 for three and then a drop to 370 for caldari?

It's important to take mass into account when comparing speeds. With prop mods on, the distribution of speeds across the class is a lot more evenly spread.

Ok, I see it now. Makes more sense.

Another question:

Is there any consideration or possibility of these ships getting a similar bonus to remote tracking enhancers like their cruiser counterparts?

And on that note, any opinions on the cruisers getting similar tanking bonuses as these ships? I think it would definitely be interesting to see how the different tanking bonuses play out for the logistics meta.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#73 - 2015-11-30 03:07:12 UTC
Mad Abbat wrote:
May somebody explain ship stats choices in the current build, and why does Gallente ship has more PG and CPU than Amarr ship?

I can see why it can have more CPU (extra mid slot) but more PG??? Amarr should have more PG to be able to fit better (IN) armor plates.


And why only 10% mass difference?

The deacon has a built in armor bonus, so it may not need as much PG for plates. Those extra low slots may be better suited for power relays, nanos, or more resists. The thaila would still likely have significantly lower tank even with lower PG, because of no bonus and one less low.
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#74 - 2015-12-01 03:18:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Onslaughtor
I just have to ask about the design behind haveing the amarr and caldari not haveing cap transfer bonuses. As someone who FCs smaller fleets I have been waiting on these but am a little sad that I wont have the options for reliable cap transfers on ships that actually could really use them.
NeoShocker
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#75 - 2015-12-01 11:00:46 UTC
Mm, time to hunt for Kirin then! I always been slacking off to get the amor and weapons, but now I have a reason to! Oh wait ... wrong game ... I mean... I can't wait to fly it! :D
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#76 - 2015-12-01 16:13:44 UTC
The production for the Amarr T2 is going to be a bit weird since CCP made the decision to turn the old mining frigate into a combat ship and an old combat ship into the support frig, so now we have the stealth bomber already being made from the support frigate hull that would otherwise have been used to build a T2 logi.
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#77 - 2015-12-01 22:30:36 UTC
Nah, they aren't going to be OP at all.

[Deacon, Deacon fit]

Damage Control II
Energized Thermal Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Capacitor Power Relay II

10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Cap Recharger II

Coreli A-Type Small Remote Armor Repairer
Coreli A-Type Small Remote Armor Repairer
Coreli A-Type Small Remote Armor Repairer

Small Anti-EM Pump II
Small Anti-Kinetic Pump II


Genolution Core Augmentation CA-1
Genolution Core Augmentation CA-4
Genolution Core Augmentation CA-3
Genolution Core Augmentation CA-2
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Capacitor Systems Operation EO-605
Inherent Implants 'Noble' Remote Armor Repair Systems RA-705
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Capacitor Management EM-805

Above is cap stable with all 5s. Evasive Maneuvers 2 link makes the sig 22.8 and speed 2189.

Nah. Not OP at all. Roll
Mad Abbat
Talon Swarm
#78 - 2015-12-02 01:04:50 UTC
are you aware that is a niche fit, and w/o 400mm plate that ship is useless in a FW fleet fight?

ofc you can fit like that and be one shotted by a thasher/svipul gang.

you know.. hyenas, derptrons etc etc etc as a supprt ships do fit webs...
Haoibuni
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#79 - 2015-12-02 13:20:26 UTC
Deacons are going to be nicknamed Joey.

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#80 - 2015-12-02 22:22:56 UTC
Mad Abbat wrote:
are you aware that is a niche fit, and w/o 400mm plate that ship is useless in a FW fleet fight?

ofc you can fit like that and be one shotted by a thasher/svipul gang.

you know.. hyenas, derptrons etc etc etc as a supprt ships do fit webs...


You do realize how much low sig and speed add to your tank? Small gangs of 3 of these and some Confessors will be painful.