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[December] Tech Two Logistics Frigates

First post
Author
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#41 - 2015-11-27 12:42:33 UTC
Im glad they dont have full on T2 resists and the combined duration and cap use bonus for the t2 skill thankfully means you dont need these to level 4/5 before they become usable.

But im also concerned about the Sig bonuses. Perhaps tone it down or swap it for an e-war resist bonus or remote utility bonuses.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Funz Orlenard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2015-11-27 12:50:18 UTC
Minmatar Frigate Bonus per level:
10% bonus to Remote Shield Booster amount
10% reduction in Remote Shield Booster activation cost
Logistics Frigates Bonus per level:
5% reduction in Remote Shield Booster duration and activation cost
5% reduction in signature radius

Why is the minmatar frigate skill giving way more boost to reps as logistics is doing? I think you should replace bonuses of the skills with one another, makes more sense.
Luscius Uta
#43 - 2015-11-27 12:55:03 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Kirin!


Why not Kuririn? You are making DragonBall fans unhappy Sad


Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Ovv Topik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2015-11-27 12:55:29 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
so why is the amarr one completely inferior to the gallente one in every sense? except capacitor


Amarr armor resist 60%
Galente armor resist 10%

Reading is hard.

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2015-11-27 12:57:14 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
redesign bantam navitas and burst models pls


The Bantam needs a face lift, but the the Navitas needs to be totally redesigned. It looks more like the old Jove frigates than anything and is quite honestly, in my opinion, one of the ugliest ships in the game.

The Bursters is fine I think!

I also have concerns over the speed of the Caldari ship. It needs a little more.

The other stats for these look pretty decent.
Flyinghotpocket
Doomheim
#46 - 2015-11-27 14:33:26 UTC
Ovv Topik wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
so why is the amarr one completely inferior to the gallente one in every sense? except capacitor


Amarr armor resist 60%
Galente armor resist 10%

Reading is hard.

what are you pole smoking?

racial t2 resistances have nothing to do with this.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2015-11-27 16:47:32 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The skill formerly known as "Logistics" is now called "Logistics Cruisers"


Is this going to be tied to the frigate skill for people who don't have it trained yet; like happened with the mining frigate introduction?
Bateau Erinys
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2015-11-27 17:38:25 UTC
big miker wrote:
Remove the signature reduction bonus. They already get a very low base signature radius.
Since low-sec is littered with links and implanted pilots the scalpel and gallente logistics frigate are able to achieve 12m signature radius. http://puu.sh/lzLDA/c8f4aba198.png

Not to mention being able to easily fit a 10mn afterburner in combination with a respectable tank.

Edit. I still find it stupid how these things and t3d's get such a ridiculously large cargohold.


OGB confirmed remove
Samaz Ralan
Doomheim
#49 - 2015-11-27 18:38:01 UTC
so we can get rid of ceptor bubble immunity, right?
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#50 - 2015-11-28 00:50:43 UTC
Jaro Essa wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
Damage shedding from medium drones occurs below 125 sig rad. At 14, you'll be taking about 10 DPS from a flight of Hammerheads.

So shoot them with lights?

Trinkets friend wrote:
Resists and raw HP seem fine, for a micro sig. But you really do need the micro sig, because these ships are really quite thin, which is the idea I suppose. Shed 90% of the damage from your sig radius and just get alpha'ed off the field by a lucky long range pot shot.

The emphasis on sig tanking increases the importance of pilot skill necessary in minimising the risk of such pot shots. With the introduction of falloff, there's incentive to be changing position and getting closer at times to deliver higher reps, and maintaining speed and position to take advantage of such sig radius will be an interesting challenge. The emphasis on sig tanking also means that, just as these will be the most powerful in frig/dessie compositions, so too will small weapons be the most effective against them.


*golf clap* Truly, I have had something I already know extremely well explained to me. However, lucky shots are just that - luck. Keeping transversal up with a low-sig ship still sees you liable to taking a range of damage on any individual shot.

Tell me, O Explainer of Everything Obvious, what's the sig resolution on a Warrior II? Is it 25m? If your flight of Warriors does 80DPS on paper, how much is it really going to do against, say, a Deacon with a base 75% Explosive resist and 12m sig radius? Hmm? 10?

I would have thought Fozzie's figured out already how OP low-sig ships really are.

For instance, at 12m sig radius a BC will take about 20s to lock these ships. Without even a res damp on it. Battleships, probably 35-45s.

If you cover your bases with res damps, you will be able to avoid all damage entirely for the duration of a fight against the now-useless range of ships bigger than a T3D. GJ Fozzie.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#51 - 2015-11-28 04:27:11 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Jaro Essa wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
Damage shedding from medium drones occurs below 125 sig rad. At 14, you'll be taking about 10 DPS from a flight of Hammerheads.

So shoot them with lights?

Trinkets friend wrote:
Resists and raw HP seem fine, for a micro sig. But you really do need the micro sig, because these ships are really quite thin, which is the idea I suppose. Shed 90% of the damage from your sig radius and just get alpha'ed off the field by a lucky long range pot shot.

The emphasis on sig tanking increases the importance of pilot skill necessary in minimising the risk of such pot shots. With the introduction of falloff, there's incentive to be changing position and getting closer at times to deliver higher reps, and maintaining speed and position to take advantage of such sig radius will be an interesting challenge. The emphasis on sig tanking also means that, just as these will be the most powerful in frig/dessie compositions, so too will small weapons be the most effective against them.


*golf clap* Truly, I have had something I already know extremely well explained to me. However, lucky shots are just that - luck. Keeping transversal up with a low-sig ship still sees you liable to taking a range of damage on any individual shot.

Tell me, O Explainer of Everything Obvious, what's the sig resolution on a Warrior II? Is it 25m? If your flight of Warriors does 80DPS on paper, how much is it really going to do against, say, a Deacon with a base 75% Explosive resist and 12m sig radius? Hmm? 10?

I would have thought Fozzie's figured out already how OP low-sig ships really are.

For instance, at 12m sig radius a BC will take about 20s to lock these ships. Without even a res damp on it. Battleships, probably 35-45s.

If you cover your bases with res damps, you will be able to avoid all damage entirely for the duration of a fight against the now-useless range of ships bigger than a T3D. GJ Fozzie.
thoe battlecruisers and battleships could always shoot the link ship and then work on not being caught without some kind of anti tackle support.

I think the bellicose just found its niche.

In fact, any of the minmatar painters could perform well here. All the way from the other side of the fight too. If a rapier of huggin were to apply a web and a paint, it really may be in trouble.

Which brings up another way-op sig tanking ship: hyena.
Joelleaveek
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2015-11-28 08:09:28 UTC
"scalpel" is win
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#53 - 2015-11-28 08:39:59 UTC
Rowells wrote:
...I think the bellicose just found its niche.

In fact, any of the minmatar painters could perform well here. All the way from the other side of the fight too. If a rapier of huggin were to apply a web and a paint, it really may be in trouble.

Which brings up another way-op sig tanking ship: hyena.


Shhh baltec1 already told me to not give out free tactical advice.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Ovv Topik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2015-11-28 12:38:08 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:

racial t2 resistances have nothing to do with this.


If you think the 'Armor' Resists of your 'Armour' Logi has nothing to do with it's performance versus it's Gallente equivalent, good luck defending your home in Sahtogas when we come to take it from you.

Oh. Wait. We already took it. KK I see now.

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#55 - 2015-11-28 13:01:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Rowells wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
Jaro Essa wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
Damage shedding from medium drones occurs below 125 sig rad. At 14, you'll be taking about 10 DPS from a flight of Hammerheads.

So shoot them with lights?

Trinkets friend wrote:
Resists and raw HP seem fine, for a micro sig. But you really do need the micro sig, because these ships are really quite thin, which is the idea I suppose. Shed 90% of the damage from your sig radius and just get alpha'ed off the field by a lucky long range pot shot.

The emphasis on sig tanking increases the importance of pilot skill necessary in minimising the risk of such pot shots. With the introduction of falloff, there's incentive to be changing position and getting closer at times to deliver higher reps, and maintaining speed and position to take advantage of such sig radius will be an interesting challenge. The emphasis on sig tanking also means that, just as these will be the most powerful in frig/dessie compositions, so too will small weapons be the most effective against them.


*golf clap* Truly, I have had something I already know extremely well explained to me. However, lucky shots are just that - luck. Keeping transversal up with a low-sig ship still sees you liable to taking a range of damage on any individual shot.

Tell me, O Explainer of Everything Obvious, what's the sig resolution on a Warrior II? Is it 25m? If your flight of Warriors does 80DPS on paper, how much is it really going to do against, say, a Deacon with a base 75% Explosive resist and 12m sig radius? Hmm? 10?

I would have thought Fozzie's figured out already how OP low-sig ships really are.

For instance, at 12m sig radius a BC will take about 20s to lock these ships. Without even a res damp on it. Battleships, probably 35-45s.

If you cover your bases with res damps, you will be able to avoid all damage entirely for the duration of a fight against the now-useless range of ships bigger than a T3D. GJ Fozzie.
thoe battlecruisers and battleships could always shoot the link ship and then work on not being caught without some kind of anti tackle support.

I think the bellicose just found its niche.

In fact, any of the minmatar painters could perform well here. All the way from the other side of the fight too. If a rapier of huggin were to apply a web and a paint, it really may be in trouble.

Which brings up another way-op sig tanking ship: hyena.


Painters don't work so well on already small sigs.

x% of buggerall is buggerall.

What you'll need, are caracals with RLML and MGCs *AND* triple rigors *AND* precision light missiles. And probably a web from someone else Because, you know, they'll last a long time on field fit like that Lol
Flyinghotpocket
Doomheim
#56 - 2015-11-28 14:31:11 UTC
Ovv Topik wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:

racial t2 resistances have nothing to do with this.


If you think the 'Armor' Resists of your 'Armour' Logi has nothing to do with it's performance versus it's Gallente equivalent, good luck defending your home in Sahtogas when we come to take it from you.

Oh. Wait. We already took it. KK I see now.

it has nothing to do with its performance because all these t2 logis have t2 racial res, and OBVIOUSLY panders to there own style of fighting. what im talking about is the clear discrepancys between the 2 ships. BOTH have t2 racial res, you got that?

but the cpu? the grid? the faster align time the less mass, the better recharge rate, everything that matters in a fight the gallente have a superiority with. amarr one? tank. wow.................. thats not a role. tanking is not a role.

keep thinking you took sahtogas through combat because you didnt. you took it by out plexing us in our off timezone. you lost every single fight in sahtogas over the last week with the exception of maybe 2. 2 out of 50. go back to being bad.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Richard TheLordOfDance
Operation Fishbowl Inc.
#57 - 2015-11-28 23:21:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard TheLordOfDance
big miker wrote:
Remove the signature reduction bonus. They already get a very low base signature radius.
Since low-sec is littered with links and implanted pilots the scalpel and gallente logistics frigate are able to achieve 12m signature radius. http://puu.sh/lzLDA/c8f4aba198.png

Not to mention being able to easily fit a 10mn afterburner in combination with a respectable tank.

Edit. I still find it stupid how these things and t3d's get such a ridiculously large cargohold.


Haven't they said they'll nuke off-grid boosting? Yes 12m is still a bit silly but at least we will be able to bump it up by killing the boosts that are sitting right next to it!
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#58 - 2015-11-29 01:08:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Painters don't work so well on already small sigs.

x% of buggerall is buggerall.

What you'll need, are caracals with RLML and MGCs *AND* triple rigors *AND* precision light missiles. And probably a web from someone else Because, you know, they'll last a long time on field fit like that Lol

Properly bonused, a hyena can brin the scalpel close enough to its original stats to make the skin-tank an issue again. A set of lights or lights/rockets would put it in a really bad spot.

The only real issue to killing the scalpel, is if you're ship cannot catch it. With most frigates, that shouldn't be too hard, and possibly an interceptor could work on it (it'll take some time though). The gutted agility also becomes an issue since you need to be pretty set on a flight path to stay alive, and that path may put you way into shield rep falloff, which means logi survives, but dos doesn't. If pyfa is correct, scalpel also has very small capacitor strength. 10mn fit means running reps conservatively or using prop only when in danger. There may be situations where pilots can use that fit very well, but in general, the counters aren't as limited as one may initially think.

Unlike most small sig OP ships, the scalpel doesn't have a way to fend off its primary threats. As support, it will depend heavily on its line ships to keep it clear.

But yes, the dig tank will definitely help with staying alive longer against other threats.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#59 - 2015-11-29 01:18:36 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Those speeds seem really weird.

415-405 for three and then a drop to 370 for caldari?


yes that is a big disparity especially when you add the sig bloom from extenders, i would suggest bring the other 3 down under 400

good too see them getting only partial T2 resists, the T2 logi cruisers need theres toned down, the assault line should have the best resists.

I really think that the difference in speed will play big negative factor in choosing scalpel over Kirin. Adding that on top of the different tanking styles. Unless the issue is that they made the amarr one fast so it wouldn't be useless... Maybe idk
Z1gy
Vindicator Corporation
#60 - 2015-11-29 07:31:22 UTC
which t1 ships CCP gonna based the t2 hull from ? it was not mentioned in the OP