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[December] Tech Two Logistics Frigates

First post
Author
Mad Abbat
Talon Swarm
#21 - 2015-11-27 01:48:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mad Abbat
Sig tank is better than buffer face tank in fleets, as fellow logi pilots just have much less raw armor/shield damage to rep, wich magnify tanking power of signature bonussed logi wing vs facetanking logi wing.
(same rep power to rep less raw damage -> better general tank)

Amarr and caldari ships it seems designed to be more durable but suffer form EWAR
Matar and Gal ships designed to have better utility but be less durable.

With current desigh sigtanking ships have better actual tanks than facetanking buffer-bonussed ships and have better utility by initial design, wich means that Amarr and Cal ships are inferior.

Suggestion:

Change buffer bonus for appropriate resists bonus to make design tanking bonuses equal between races.

OR change signature bonus for scan res bonus

high scan res allows logi to apply reps faster, that is crutial aspect that current t1 ships lack.
Curent t1 line ships melt in few seconds under foccused fire, often unable to catch reps from t1 logi (especially armor, due to combination of low scan res+application of HP at the end of the long cycle).
That change will make Gal/Min logi more desirable for fast t1 FW frigate-dessie fights where reaction time is valued more than raw tanking power, and make Amarr/Cald ships more desirable in small T2 / T3D / T1 cruiser gangs where reaction time valued less than raw tanking power of individial logi ship.
Jack Hayson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-11-27 01:53:38 UTC
big miker wrote:
Remove the signature reduction bonus. They already get a very low base signature radius....

I have to agree with this... It's ridiculusly small.

Imagine those things in a C6 wolf rayet. Shocked
6m sig radius with an oversized prop mod... they would be practically invincible.

Give them more EHP/resists instead of the tiny sig radius.
aria Yatolila
Literally The Worst Community
#23 - 2015-11-27 02:02:21 UTC
The sig radius bonus seems pretty strong as pointed by Big Miker, even if i like the idea of this kind of bonus, maybe move it as a role bonus or a fix number (like -1 sig per level of logi freg), to avoid ridiculous number. I think the red line about sig radius is around 20 (as a linked claw can go to 19~) and any ship shouldn't go under 20.

Lady Yatolila, retainer of her Lady Kadesh and Khanid Royal House

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#24 - 2015-11-27 02:06:55 UTC
Jack Hayson wrote:
big miker wrote:
Remove the signature reduction bonus. They already get a very low base signature radius....

I have to agree with this... It's ridiculusly small.

Imagine those things in a C6 wolf rayet. Shocked
6m sig radius with an oversized prop mod... they would be practically invincible.

Give them more EHP/resists instead of the tiny sig radius.


More like a C13....but, then again, 1500 DPS hecates are a thing, so...good with the bad.
Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
#25 - 2015-11-27 02:10:07 UTC
Gallente Navy Navitas with RR hull "coming soon"? For Real Men.
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#26 - 2015-11-27 02:46:18 UTC
Why the grid disparity between the deacon/thalia?
Jaro Essa
Dahkur Forge
#27 - 2015-11-27 04:00:16 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Damage shedding from medium drones occurs below 125 sig rad. At 14, you'll be taking about 10 DPS from a flight of Hammerheads.

So shoot them with lights?

Trinkets friend wrote:
Resists and raw HP seem fine, for a micro sig. But you really do need the micro sig, because these ships are really quite thin, which is the idea I suppose. Shed 90% of the damage from your sig radius and just get alpha'ed off the field by a lucky long range pot shot.

The emphasis on sig tanking increases the importance of pilot skill necessary in minimising the risk of such pot shots. With the introduction of falloff, there's incentive to be changing position and getting closer at times to deliver higher reps, and maintaining speed and position to take advantage of such sig radius will be an interesting challenge. The emphasis on sig tanking also means that, just as these will be the most powerful in frig/dessie compositions, so too will small weapons be the most effective against them.
Scheulagh Santorine
The Math Department
#28 - 2015-11-27 04:05:28 UTC
I'm seeing a lot of comments about the sig radius, which I agree will be quite small with the bonus.

I wonder though, is the extremely poor agility and mass intended to make it difficult to make these ships kitey? With ABs and MWDs you wont get much speed and your transverse velocity on orbits is going to be quite poor compared to most ships, T1 or T2.


S. Santorine

============================== I used to shoot things. Now I do math.

S. Santorine

Writings on some formal methods in EvE-OnlineEVE Math & Physics Blog

Bob Niac
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-11-27 04:18:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Bob Niac
Please add utility hull!

Remote cap for Amarr

Remote sensor booster for Gallente

Remote tracking links for Minmatar

Remote ECCM for Caldari.

Edi: Again SECOND SHIP, separate from OP.

[u]I <3 Logistics:[/u] Pilot of all  T2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use.

Blackfeathers
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2015-11-27 05:08:22 UTC
To be honest, I was really hoping for bonuses towards remote assistance modules like tracking links, remote sebos, and remote eccm to bring some more utility to the field in small gangs. The few times I e flown a tracking link oneiros have been really fun- not so much the scimi due to mid slot tank and all. There are already a bunch of rep focused ships. A repair drone bonus to go along with the remote assist stuff coulda been really fun- cap boosting, a sebo/eccm on the logi gang, and some hull drones to help out - target range and tracking links (optimal scripts) on a corm gang? I think it could have been wicked.
Eodp Ellecon
Air
The Initiative.
#31 - 2015-11-27 05:14:03 UTC
Regarding INVENTION of these - the Amarr Inquisitor BPO is dedicated to the bomber Purifier.
So this will be properly addressed by release date?

The other three should work readily towards T2 invention by simply adding the invention path as their BPO's are clear.
Maxxor Brutor
Borderline Procurements
#32 - 2015-11-27 06:07:56 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
redesign bantam navitas and burst models pls


Yeah, Bantam being a vacuum cleaner kind of made sense when it was a mining ship but not now...

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#33 - 2015-11-27 06:46:47 UTC
I hope there is an excellent reason as to why the kirin is a good 40m/s below the other three...

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Scheulagh Santorine
The Math Department
#34 - 2015-11-27 07:59:32 UTC
Altrue wrote:
I hope there is an excellent reason as to why the kirin is a good 40m/s below the other three...


This is not uncommon. As you can see, the racial trend is that Caldari tend to be about 10% slower. On the other hand, they usually have a bit of an advantage over the armor races when it comes to time-constant. For these frigates though, it seems that CCP made the Caldari agility also the worst of the group!

S. Santorine

============================== I used to shoot things. Now I do math.

S. Santorine

Writings on some formal methods in EvE-OnlineEVE Math & Physics Blog

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#35 - 2015-11-27 08:25:18 UTC
So I asked about cap transfers in the twitch chat, the main reason for that was for small ship content where neuts are an issue. I don't have a super compelling reason for it, but overall think it would be nice. it is also possible someone else can point out that it is a terrible idea. if it just means bringing cap boosters than so be it. although with that I have to wonder if it is worth it to bring a t1 logi cruiser cap chain?

can't wait to look at these in more detail.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Xavier Azabu
Half Empty
#36 - 2015-11-27 09:08:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Azabu
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Kirin!


Please continue to throw in names from Japanese mythology when you make new Caldari ships! Great name. Otherwise, still waiting for the "Penguin".
Looking forward to "Oni", "Kappa", and "Namazu" as well.

The amount of new stuff in this expansion is overwhelming. Lots of fun to come.

I have to say I like any form of signature radius bonus. Surprised to see it on the Gallente hull.
These ships are going to add a lot of interesting options for small to medium gang logistics. Would be nice to see a mild Assault Frigate speed buff soon to go along with these.

You'd have to really stretch the powergrid with some rigs and a Micro. Aux. Power core on the Gallente hull in order to get an oversized AB in. So we're probably safe as far as that issue goes. They're also vulnerable to jams. Overall I think there are a fair amount of counters.
Lia' Vael
Trillionaire.pro
#37 - 2015-11-27 09:37:36 UTC
Will the current Logistics skill get splitted into Logistics cruisers and Logistics frigates (like when the scout drones were splitted into light and medium drones) or will it be an entirely new train?
Luscius Uta
#38 - 2015-11-27 10:24:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Luscius Uta
If these ships are going to be called "Logistics Frigates", does that mean that the existing Logistics will be renamed into "Logistics Cruisers" (because consistency)? Even though I would prefer renaming into Auxiliary Frigates/Cruisers since Logistics has nothing to do with their purpose.

Edit: only after reading second post below mine I noticed that Fozzie already gave the answer

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Abbot Jackson
Project Nogero
#39 - 2015-11-27 10:43:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Abbot Jackson
Xavier Azabu wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Kirin!


Please continue to throw in names from Japanese mythology when you make new Caldari ships! Great name. Otherwise, still waiting for the "Penguin".
Looking forward to "Oni", "Kappa", and "Namazu" as well.


When T3 battlships come around, I demand that the Caldari one be the "Senpai".

EDIT: Also, confirming that the "Penguin" is more badass than the "Stork".
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#40 - 2015-11-27 12:35:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
I think if you are going to give them a signature as low as is being predicted then you need to remove all offensive capabilities as I can imagine these being used as annoying PvP ships. 12m sig is virtually immune to damage from a lot of ships.

If their role is just to provide reps though then I am fine with them having the low sig, it actually adds an interesting element to logistics as it involves pilot skill to make use of that low sig and also means that logi will not be so powerful when spider tanking with other logi. So I like the gameplay this adds on the logistics front, as long as we don't end up seeing abuse by people flying pvp fit logi frigates which are almost impossible to damage.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
The skill formerly known as "Logistics" is now called "Logistics Cruisers"


So I take it from this that the former logistic skill is no longer going to be a requirement for using force auxiliaries then? If so then that is a good change.

Lia' Vael wrote:
Will the current Logistics skill get splitted into Logistics cruisers and Logistics frigates (like when the scout drones were splitted into light and medium drones) or will it be an entirely new train?


It will be a new train as it doesn't break the rule of "if you could fly it before you can fly it after" as T2 logi frigates are new ships so no one could fly them before.