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CCP - End Highsec Incursions

First post First post
Author
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1181 - 2015-11-20 19:58:30 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
13.5mill per member, per site. so lets be conservative and say 3 sites an hour. So that's 13.5 * 3 * 40. 1.62 bill per hour extra.

How much is a large pos and stront and fuel?

Also lol nullseccers complaining about logistics of setting up a single pos. What R Cynos.

It is amusing the arguments coming out.


cant light cynos in incursion systems, dont even know if you can setup pos's in incursion systems so thats a silly comment you still have the risk of being hellcamped on out gates by a load of battleships and supers, yeah cynos, all you need is a cyno on each out gate to ruin a nullsec incursion runners day, cant do that in highsec though huh.

everyone has intel chanels as soon as someone notices a fleet of 40 faction battleships doing an incursion you will be having a bad day.

Sounds like content to me.

Oh wait, don't want content in null, my bad.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1182 - 2015-11-20 20:01:30 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Valacus wrote:


Even your supposed "evidence" is all supposition. It's speculation and possible causation. Well, I can do that too.

One of the reason incursion runners, despite being few, make so much ISK is because they are well organized, and that is purely through necessity. Without organization there is no incursion running. Logistics are established ahead of time to ensure the fleets can keep running through all time zones so that all time zones can partake. Another possibility as to why incursion runners make more than their fellow EVE players is simply because they like it. Ratting in null is boring. Running level 4s is boring. Soloing is just not that fun. Incursion running at least provides conversation if nothing else. More things your "evidence" doesn't take into account. You still have nothing. The raw ISK per hour of high sec incursions vs. level 4s and null sec ratting is still comparable. Incursion runners don't make more ISK per hour, they simply run more hours of it because the activity is more bearable.


Nope, they earn more isk/hr than you can out in null and thats a hard fact. If you are comparing organisation incursion runners are at the low end of the scale, they dont run fleets over an entire cluster, they don't operate with intel channels, they don't operate with jump capable ships, they don't have to run the logistics of operating infrastructure we have in sov space. Incursion fleets are no more complicated than any roaming gang. Best part is people can still solo incursions although granted its complicated and requires a good few alts.

isk/hr is fairly straight forwards to work out and at this point we have it down to an exact science for every activity. Null is the worst place to earn your isk as a line member.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1183 - 2015-11-20 20:03:01 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:

Sounds like content to me.

Oh wait, don't want content in null, my bad.


There is content and then there is sending the lambs to the slaughter.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1184 - 2015-11-20 20:05:13 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:

Sounds like content to me.

Oh wait, don't want content in null, my bad.


There is content and then there is sending the lambs to the slaughter.

It's come to this, the great nullsec Alliances has come down to this.

CCP is the least of this game's problems.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1185 - 2015-11-20 20:09:28 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:

It's come to this, the great nullsec Alliances has come down to this.

CCP is the least of this game's problems.


You honestly think test sending a 40 man PVE battleship fleet into the heart of the CFC to run an incursion will end well for test?
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1186 - 2015-11-20 20:12:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Then why isn't CfC doing it? One of the single most lucrative activities in eve is being left unused because the biggest, meanest, 'most bestest' Alliance in the game with thousands of members and ships and hundreds of supers 'might get shot at'.

What a colossal joke.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1187 - 2015-11-20 20:17:52 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Then why isn't CfC doing it? One of the single most lucrative activities in eve in being left unused because the biggest, meanest, 'most bestest' Alliance in the game with thousands of members and ships and hundreds of supers 'might get shot at'.

What a colossal joke.


Because the same thing would happen if we sent a battleship fleet to the Russian regions, it simply doesn't work in null space. We will run it when it shows up in our space as we have backup that can defend the fleet but when it moves on we cant follow like you can in highsec.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1188 - 2015-11-20 20:30:06 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Then why isn't CfC doing it? One of the single most lucrative activities in eve is being left unused because the biggest, meanest, 'most bestest' Alliance in the game with thousands of members and ships and hundreds of supers 'might get shot at'.

What a colossal joke.


CfC/imp[erium does run incursions in their own space, I know because my Allainces has found wormholes to them and tried to go after them sometimes. Are you really letting anti-Goon prejudice affect your ability to reason? i've got bees all up in my killboard and I don't even do that.

I didn't peg you for one who practices denialism.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1189 - 2015-11-20 20:43:02 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Then why isn't CfC doing it? One of the single most lucrative activities in eve is being left unused because the biggest, meanest, 'most bestest' Alliance in the game with thousands of members and ships and hundreds of supers 'might get shot at'.

What a colossal joke.


CfC/imp[erium does run incursions in their own space, I know because my Allainces has found wormholes to them and tried to go after them sometimes. Are you really letting anti-Goon prejudice affect your ability to reason? i've got bees all up in my killboard and I don't even do that.

I didn't peg you for one who practices denialism.

Character assassination, how original Lol

Regardless, what I said applies to all nullsec alliances, there's no focus on one specific alliance but it is telling that the biggest ones wont even bother. It's there for the taking but you know, being risk averse is not something exclusive to HS players it seems. It's not null that's dead, it's the people that live there. The stories I've heard of Nullsec Alliances back in the day and what I see in game and on the forums now are so different it's no wonder. Would rather whine to CCP day and night than lift a finger to affect change themselves.

Whatever, not even worth the time I'm spending to write this.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1190 - 2015-11-20 20:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Anize Oramara wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Then why isn't CfC doing it? One of the single most lucrative activities in eve is being left unused because the biggest, meanest, 'most bestest' Alliance in the game with thousands of members and ships and hundreds of supers 'might get shot at'.

What a colossal joke.


CfC/imp[erium does run incursions in their own space, I know because my Allainces has found wormholes to them and tried to go after them sometimes. Are you really letting anti-Goon prejudice affect your ability to reason? i've got bees all up in my killboard and I don't even do that.

I didn't peg you for one who practices denialism.

Character assassination, how original Lol

Regardless, what I said applies to all nullsec alliances, there's no focus on one specific alliance but it is telling that the biggest ones wont even bother. It's there for the taking but you know, being risk averse is not something exclusive to HS players it seems. It's not null that's dead, it's the people that live there. The stories I've heard of Nullsec Alliances back in the day and what I see in game and on the forums now are so different it's no wonder. Would rather whine to CCP day and night than lift a finger to affect change themselves.

Whatever, not even worth the time I'm spending to write this.


What, exactly, does this prejudiced rant have to do with the measurable combat pve rewards imbalance? I'm not assassinating your character, you are, YOU have in your sig an example of the imbalance, you know 1st hand what can be done in high sec.

I get why you don't really want to discuss it, like i said earlier in this thread, a wise man once said “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” But I want you to consider the fact that the income in question is imaginary, and you refuse to acknowledge that a problem could even exist, and when asked about it you rant about null sec alliances rather than discuss the issue.

I admit it irritates me, as a PVE player I'd have thought PVE players would both understand the issues invovled here and be able to recognize how those issues connect to the rest of the game (good and bad), and mainly I'd expect you to be one of those able to analyze the issue intelligently. But you haven't.

I mean, I expect it from those fair-weather PVErs called incursion runners, but not from mission specialists like you (because high level mission running takes way more brain power than F1ing it through a TCRC wall over and over again).
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1191 - 2015-11-20 21:02:31 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:

Character assassination, how original Lol

Regardless, what I said applies to all nullsec alliances, there's no focus on one specific alliance but it is telling that the biggest ones wont even bother. It's there for the taking but you know, being risk averse is not something exclusive to HS players it seems. It's not null that's dead, it's the people that live there. The stories I've heard of Nullsec Alliances back in the day and what I see in game and on the forums now are so different it's no wonder. Would rather whine to CCP day and night than lift a finger to affect change themselves.

Whatever, not even worth the time I'm spending to write this.


You honestly think anyone would be able to take a 40 man pve battleship fleet into null without it getting torn apart?
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#1192 - 2015-11-20 21:26:24 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:

Character assassination, how original Lol

Regardless, what I said applies to all nullsec alliances, there's no focus on one specific alliance but it is telling that the biggest ones wont even bother. It's there for the taking but you know, being risk averse is not something exclusive to HS players it seems. It's not null that's dead, it's the people that live there. The stories I've heard of Nullsec Alliances back in the day and what I see in game and on the forums now are so different it's no wonder. Would rather whine to CCP day and night than lift a finger to affect change themselves.

Whatever, not even worth the time I'm spending to write this.


You honestly think anyone would be able to take a 40 man pve battleship fleet into null without it getting torn apart?


That's null.sec for ya try smaller fleets or poking your nose in low sec hunting for mom blueprint.

Maybe CCP can make them static in null sec so you can run them like you are in high sec.....wouldn't bet on it tho.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

StuRyan
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#1193 - 2015-11-20 21:46:02 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
13.5mill per member, per site. so lets be conservative and say 3 sites an hour. So that's 13.5 * 3 * 40. 1.62 bill per hour extra.

How much is a large pos and stront and fuel?

Also lol nullseccers complaining about logistics of setting up a single pos. What R Cynos.

It is amusing the arguments coming out.


cant light cynos in incursion systems, dont even know if you can setup pos's in incursion systems so thats a silly comment you still have the risk of being hellcamped on out gates by a load of battleships and supers, yeah cynos, all you need is a cyno on each out gate to ruin a nullsec incursion runners day, cant do that in highsec though huh.

everyone has intel chanels as soon as someone notices a fleet of 40 faction battleships doing an incursion you will be having a bad day.

Sounds like content to me.

Oh wait, don't want content in null, my bad.


LOL - said exactly what I thought.
StuRyan
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#1194 - 2015-11-20 21:46:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Valacus wrote:


Even your supposed "evidence" is all supposition. It's speculation and possible causation. Well, I can do that too.

One of the reason incursion runners, despite being few, make so much ISK is because they are well organized, and that is purely through necessity. Without organization there is no incursion running. Logistics are established ahead of time to ensure the fleets can keep running through all time zones so that all time zones can partake. Another possibility as to why incursion runners make more than their fellow EVE players is simply because they like it. Ratting in null is boring. Running level 4s is boring. Soloing is just not that fun. Incursion running at least provides conversation if nothing else. More things your "evidence" doesn't take into account. You still have nothing. The raw ISK per hour of high sec incursions vs. level 4s and null sec ratting is still comparable. Incursion runners don't make more ISK per hour, they simply run more hours of it because the activity is more bearable.


Nope, they earn more isk/hr than you can out in null and thats a hard fact. If you are comparing organisation incursion runners are at the low end of the scale, they dont run fleets over an entire cluster, they don't operate with intel channels, they don't operate with jump capable ships, they don't have to run the logistics of operating infrastructure we have in sov space. Incursion fleets are no more complicated than any roaming gang. Best part is people can still solo incursions although granted its complicated and requires a good few alts.

isk/hr is fairly straight forwards to work out and at this point we have it down to an exact science for every activity. Null is the worst place to earn your isk as a line member.


Could have sworn there are null sec incursions....
StuRyan
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#1195 - 2015-11-20 21:47:50 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:

Character assassination, how original Lol

Regardless, what I said applies to all nullsec alliances, there's no focus on one specific alliance but it is telling that the biggest ones wont even bother. It's there for the taking but you know, being risk averse is not something exclusive to HS players it seems. It's not null that's dead, it's the people that live there. The stories I've heard of Nullsec Alliances back in the day and what I see in game and on the forums now are so different it's no wonder. Would rather whine to CCP day and night than lift a finger to affect change themselves.

Whatever, not even worth the time I'm spending to write this.


You honestly think anyone would be able to take a 40 man pve battleship fleet into null without it getting torn apart?


That's null.sec for ya try smaller fleets or poking your nose in low sec hunting for mom blueprint.

Maybe CCP can make them static in null sec so you can run them like you are in high sec.....wouldn't bet on it tho.


Why do people think they need 40 man fleets to run incursions in null sec.??

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#1196 - 2015-11-20 21:56:13 UTC
No idea they need big number so it's more legit whine...

Also for the record I'm doing ~80 mil h doing VG like most ppl do did not run HQ site since forever.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1197 - 2015-11-20 21:57:41 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
StuRyan wrote:


Could have sworn there are null sec incursions....


They spawn once every 1-3 months in our space.
StuRyan
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#1198 - 2015-11-20 22:03:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
StuRyan wrote:


Could have sworn there are null sec incursions....


They spawn once every 1-3 months in our space.


Personally, thats the bigger problem easily resolved by having a new severity module that increases the incursions spawn rate in a constellation the same way wormhole augmentation modules work.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#1199 - 2015-11-20 22:24:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Mieyli
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
No idea they need big number so it's more legit whine...

Also for the record I'm doing ~80 mil h doing VG like most ppl do did not run HQ site since forever.


I can run HQ sites in highsec and make like 130m/hr. I would have to at least run HQs in low or null to match my HS income; but if I try, I'll be insta-gibbed. You see the problem?

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#1200 - 2015-11-20 22:30:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
No idea they need big number so it's more legit whine...

Also for the record I'm doing ~80 mil h doing VG like most ppl do did not run HQ site since forever.


I can run HQ sites in highsec and make like 130m/hr. I would have to at least run HQs in low or null to match my HS income; but if I try, I'll be insta-gibbed. You see the problem?


You will not be insta blobed in low(you will eventually i know i did)and can easily brake 130m/h doing nothing but VG in there but nature of those places have nothing to do with high sec and don't think for one second that if you are running HQ sites 23.5/7 other ppl do it too.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard