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New Camera Controls

First post
Author
CCP Burger
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-11-13 11:37:02 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Goliath
Camera Savvy Capsuleers,

We’ve pushed a massive update to the camera onto SiSi.
Being a core component of the game, we feel that for this to be successful we want to develop this with you. Therefor we are going to launch the feature as an opt-in beta in December.

The new camera has three states

First person camera
Ever dreamt about flying your ship in first person? Here you go!
This is us nerding out after hours, not super many use cases for it but this opens up for a lot of new possibilities
Deck up with some afterburner and try it with WASD for full effect

Orbit camera
This is somewhat similar to the classic EVE camera. The main difference is that the new orbit camera has a narrower field of view, allowing you to see enemy ships without having to look at, this also helps with sense of scale.
To give you a better sense of speed we seeked advice from our fantastic cinematic team. The camera drifts ever so slightly, giving you a parallax with the stars. The ship also offsets from the center of the screen depending on your speed.

Tactical camera
This is the topmost camera state. Here we will allow you to detach the camera from your ship and pan around (right mouse button), allowing you to get a far better sense of your surroundings. Left button will still allow you to rotate and scroll wheel pans the camera in the direction of your view angle.

We are also going to allow you to marquee select (shift + left-mouse). Currently this only selects a single bracket, but this allows you to better select fast moving objects. Alt + left-mouse will look at and ctrl + left-mouse will target. Again this is very much work in progress, but we believe getting this into your hands sooner will lead to a better product.

In all honesty, the candidate that made it to SiSi yesterday was missing few things, so here are some of the changes that you expect see in the coming days.

  • Zoom between camera states will be removed, all hotkeys all the time!
  • Center button freak out has been removed
  • Old camera will be set as default, you will be able to opt in to the new one (this was originally intended to be the case)
  • Lot of tweaking of numbers to make the camera more responsive


This is in active development and we would love your feedback

EDIT(Nov 16 2015): please see this comment for update
Yadaryon Vondawn
Vicanthya
#2 - 2015-11-13 12:23:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Yadaryon Vondawn
Camera Points:
1: If I now zoom out the tactical overlay will automatically pop up and tilt your camera. I personally hate it because it yanks me out of the EVE immersion. Please disable it or allow it to be disabled. If I disable it now it pops right back up when I rezoom. Also when it pops up and you zoom back in it stays.

2: Using the POV camera creates some distorted objects when moving it fast (warp/align etc)

3: The POV camera makes it so that enemy hits are placed in your scope with as result that you cant see anything

4: Zooming out goes smoother now but it takes way to big steps.

5: With advanced camera using Ctrl + both mouse buttons one could scale the POV, this is now done dynamically based on the zoom level. Tho this is in some respect awesome because it allows players to experience the true staggering size of some objects it really should be optional or at least changeable when advanced camera options are turned on. Right now this shortcut has been replaced by dynamic grid targeting(?) or something.

6: The new zoom level does not stop at ships/objects, again this HIGHLY ruins the immersion factor

7: Zooming to much makes you enter POV, I am in a bastion marauder, I cant do anything with my POV in that mode. Nor do I want to go in it save for some special reasons. This should be a toggle, not automatic.

8: At certain zoom out level the camera detaches from my ship, if I dont pay attention for a while it drifts away.

9: Due to the new camera options the shield/armor/hull readout overlaps with the cargo

10: THIS **** IS SO AWESOME IM GOING TO FLY POV TROUGH THIS THING SO AWES...O>O
Yeah I understand how collision works but with a POV tool and WASD movement a new person might get some immersion shock.

11: When in warp the camera fixes in front of my ship, I have a ton of windows open and my ship is now behind them, please center the ship when it enters warp.

12: Pressing the topview button when in warp yields a very unified screen color (its broke), same goes for scrolling

13: When my ship is moving the camera moves along until it fixes behind the ship, I however have no intention of looking into the equivalent of a supernova (the new engine is awesome but BRIGHT). Please keep it fixed at the angle I set it to.

14: camera/behaviour: The new AI is not sure what to do (it did this for few minutes)

15: Going into warp sometimes fixes you at a completely new camera angle, highly immersion breaking.

EDIT:
Pasted this out of the SiSi feedback earlier therefor some of these points are no longer relevant

2EDIT:
Some of the other stuff is really good btw! These are only things that I noticed ;) For example the free move camera is awesome! Also you are missing a T in you post title ;)
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#3 - 2015-11-13 13:08:01 UTC
One thing that stood out to me: the transition from tactical camera to orbit camera doesn't work if you have moved the tactical cam in the slightest. While I see why you want this (allow unlimited zoom on far away object, so you don't suddenly snap back to your ship), it would be nice to have some way of recentering it on your hull so you can "zoom back into orbit cam" without having to use keyboard shortcuts.
Doomchinchilla
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#4 - 2015-11-13 13:10:12 UTC
You really should have a 4th option to allow us to keep the old camera at all times. Most times for smaller gang pvp you don't want the camera detached from yourself, I can't see ever wanting first person mode and the orbit camera feels more for people that are making videos vs. looking for optimal knowledge of their surroundings.

When I pvp I'm always fully zoomed out with the tacitcal overlay on, I don't want to be zoomed in at any point looking at my ship as it doesn't help with positioning. And I don't want the camera to ever uncenter from my ship so I lose perspective in a fight.
Lair Osen
#5 - 2015-11-13 13:13:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Lair Osen
Camera tracking is going to be reincluded in the new features right, especially the orbit camera?

Can we stop the tactical cam auto activating the tac overlay.

Currently after panning in Tac Cam, scrolling moves the focus back and forward instead of zooming, and allows the focus to travel infinite distances away. Can we please get a way to zoom the focus point as well as move back and forth, perhaps scrolling with an alt modifier?

PLEASE give us a way to multi lock things like rats and wrecks, that would make pve soo much nicer! Please :D

Also that offset is very annoying, can we toggle/reduce it. I have limited space for my ship in my UI and the offset always puts it behind my overview or chat channel/scanners.
Arla Sarain
#6 - 2015-11-13 13:34:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
CCP Burger wrote:
Camera Savvy Capsuleers,

We’ve pushed a massive update to the camera onto SiSi.
Being a core component of the game, we feel that for this to be successful we want to develop this with you. Therefor we are going to launch the feature as an opt-in beta in December.

The new camera has three states

First person camera
Ever dreamt about flying your ship in first person? Here you go!
This is us nerding out after hours, not super many use cases for it but this opens up for a lot of new possibilities
Deck up with some afterburner and try it with WASD for full effect

Orbit camera
This is somewhat similar to the classic EVE camera. The main difference is that the new orbit camera has a narrower field of view, allowing you to see enemy ships without having to look at, this also helps with sense of scale.
To give you a better sense of speed we seeked advice from our fantastic cinematic team. The camera drifts ever so slightly, giving you a parallax with the stars. The ship also offsets from the center of the screen depending on you speed.

Tactical camera
This is the topmost camera state. Here we will allow you to detach the camera from your ship and pan around (right mouse button), allowing you to get a far better sense of your surroundings. Left button will still allow you to rotate and scroll wheel pans the camera in the direction of your view angle.

We are also going to allow you to marquee select (shift + left-mouse). Currently this only selects a single bracket, but this allows you to better select fast moving objects. Alt + left-mouse will look at and ctrl + left-mouse will target. Again this is very much work in progress, but we believe getting this into your hands sooner will lead to a better product.

In all honesty, the candidate that made it to SiSi yesterday was missing few things, so here are some of the changes that you expect see in the coming days.

  • Zoom between camera states will be removed, all hotkeys all the time!
  • Center button freak out has been removed
  • Old camera will be set as default, you will be able to opt in to the new one (this was originally intended to be the case)
  • Lot of tweaking of numbers to make the camera more responsive


This is in active development and we would love your feedback

Is the "slave to ship" tactical camera coming back?
Cannot add the toggle to the new camera options? Like if you hold the camera button on the UI, it pops up a toggle box that you can switch on and off to slave the pan controls to your ship.
Judy Mikakka
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#7 - 2015-11-13 14:09:16 UTC
CCP Burger wrote:

  • Old camera will be set as default, you will be able to opt in to the new one (this was originally intended to be the case)


  • Thank you so much.
    Ariz Black
    #8 - 2015-11-13 14:13:25 UTC
    reposting from the other thread:

    My primary concern is that the mouse buttons are wrong, with no option to swap them.

    I want rotate on rightclick, pan on leftclick, not the reverse as is currently. Please add an option for this.
    Jita Soikutsu
    Londinum Corporation
    #9 - 2015-11-13 14:55:15 UTC
    The new camera very much was pleasant! I look forward on TranquilityBlink
    Tegho
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #10 - 2015-11-13 15:03:33 UTC
    Used the new camera on sisi last night. Very impressed. Might take a while to get used to different clicks doing different things, but I think everyone will wind up loving it in the end.
    Dave Stark
    #11 - 2015-11-13 15:46:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
    there is now no way to have your ship in the middle of your screen. since i'm flying a spaceship that's a pretty big deal to me.

    currently in orbit cam going anything over about 200m/s puts your ship near the edge of your screen. in my stiletto the camera was moving itself around to accommodate the fact that you wanted to track that far ahead the ship was off screen and thus moved the camera away from what i wanted to look at in order to keep my ship in screen.

    any chance we can have a camera function that simply works? i get you're trying to do something fancy but that's redundant if the camera functionality is terrible and unusable.

    my list of reasonable desires:
    have the orbit camera centre on your ship, not a random point somewhere near your ship such that your ship is just barely on the screen in a corner somewhere.
    have the tactical camera follow your ship (as a toggleable option). it'd be nice to see what's going on around my ship without having to constantly click the button so my ship's on the screen.

    currently there are 0 ways to actually have the ship in the middle of the screen (or near the middle for any appreciable length fo time) - which when flying said ship i feel is pretty damn important.

    i mean, these new options would be wonderful... if my ship was on the screen in any of them.

    one more thing; the buttons for the camera options/cargo/dscan/tactical overlay etc now run in to the numbers for hull/shield/armour - also not cool.

    another thing i just noticed - can't seem to bring up the radial menu by holding left click on the model of something any more, it only comes up when holding left click over the bracket? rather annoying on stations as the bracket is tiny (and nowhere near where i come out of warp) compared to the model.

    zooming in and out changes what type of camera you're using at different intervals. which is very annoying when you zoom in a tiny bit on the tactical camera to find yourself in the orbit camera (doubly annoying when it zooms you ALL THE WAY IN).

    you guys have a LOT of kinks to work out to make this functional - it has potential but so far you've squandered it all by making it as inconvenient and obtuse as possible.
    Tikktokk Tokkzikk
    V0LTA
    WE FORM V0LTA
    #12 - 2015-11-13 17:12:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tikktokk Tokkzikk
    Manual piloting (double-clicking in space) is next to impossible as it is right now:
    Orbital camera has bad situational awareness due to horrible FOV and inability to zoom out. Having to constantly compensate for the automatic camera movement is also annoying.
    Tactical camera doesn't follow your ship and camera movement feels sluggish.

    Solution should be to add a 4th option for the current camera on TQ and only change between camera modes with the buttons.

    Besides that, it's all very impressive and I can't wait for it to go live!
    Bienator II
    madmen of the skies
    #13 - 2015-11-13 17:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
    i understand that the version on SISI is not the latest so i limit the feedback only to a few simple aspects:

    don't forget that eve runs on the PC home of the direct-input master race. The camera feels very slow because there is a delay between mouse wheel input and the actual zoom result. Remove the animation and it feels like it should again. Just ask the team of the new map, they had the same problem and got the same feedback and they also did listen and reverted it again.

    the fact that the camera is not centered on the ship is very distracting and players who kite in pvp will hate that (like me). It is already hard enough to control your ship with double click since you have to guess where it will actually go (there is 0 UI feedback for that), and now the ship itself is moving around the screen while you have to double click random spots on screen and hope your orbit will work out correctly. Thats insane - don't do that.

    additionally to that the camera seems to follow the stars unless you look in the flight direction of the ship. This means the camera will rotate constantly while you MWD around in a fight. Thats also not cool for small scale warfare.

    i am not sure about the transition between tactical mode and normal mode. I would much prefer a button for that to toggle between homeworld/command&conquer mode and ship-centered mode, and don't have that transition automatic which basically restricts your zoom level in the normal mode.

    how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

    Tappits
    Sniggerdly
    Pandemic Legion
    #14 - 2015-11-13 17:34:04 UTC
    The new view point of the ships so you can see the scale of ships much better…

    BUT… When you zoom out and it goes from a close view to the tactical view the camera is no longer anchored to your ship which is dumb.. It should stay anchored to the ship till you manually right click and drag the camera about so you can quickly zoom out to look at something and then zoom back in and its still looking at your ship.
    DaReaper
    Net 7
    Cannon.Fodder
    #15 - 2015-11-13 17:45:07 UTC
    From other thread:

    ok i'll add my issues:

    1) the 'original camera veiw" is not centered on the ship, when i warp the ship slides to the bottom of the camera. a "lock camera view" might be a good option

    2) the zoom for tachtical and 'normal' camera are reversed. i.e. (i have a track ball) if i hold both mouse buttons and move the ball up i zoom out in 'normal' view but in tachitical view i zoom in. If i slide the mouse down in normal view i zoom in but in tachtical view i zoom out, this is confusing.

    3) camera zoom and movement are way slower then what we currently have and a bit choppy.

    4) the trasition for 'look at' is disorentating.


    i'll add more as i try stuff

    OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

    Eve For life.

    Arionu
    Iminoneih Ltd
    #16 - 2015-11-13 18:06:23 UTC
    Please see feedback from previous thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=456119

    I also discovered a new bug in addition to the previous one and filed it under ID EBR-55744
    Daemun Khanid
    Corbeau de sang
    #17 - 2015-11-13 18:32:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemun Khanid
    Posted this in another thread but see now that this is the official location. You MUST re implement the focus camera on overview selection feature. It is absolutely fundamental for dscanning.

    Also the button placements need adjusted, with all the new buttons the cargo button obscures the percentage readouts for armor and structure.

    As someone already mentioned I think, when camera is set to center on ship... it should stay centered on ship. Moving the point of focus around as ship velocity changes might be a nice optional feature but is a no-no in combat. (it's ok during warp and gives a nice cinematic effect but should not happen during normal flight speeds)

    On side notes, the new blue shade instead of red for dscan on the new system map is nice and is it just me or has the star field density been increased? The images for background stars just seem much denser now, maybe it's just my location on Sisi that has a different appearance than where I'm at on tranq but it seems considerably different from what I saw last time I logged on.

    Daemun of Khanid

    Aivlis Eldelbar
    Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
    Curatores Veritatis Alliance
    #18 - 2015-11-13 18:37:57 UTC
    Currently my main gripe is the huge inertia the camera has.

    Ok, I get you guys just love it: you put in both new maps and now you've put it here. It feels nice sometimes and gives a nice cinematic look to the action, but let me be the broken record and tell you yet again, that the camera is a tool, and that anything that prevents it from being used with precision must be, at the very least, disableable.

    Other than that, I'm really, really thrilled about these changes.
    Dermeisen
    #19 - 2015-11-13 18:45:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Dermeisen
    This is a superb development. I can only imagine the prospective utility in a new Eve with doomsday effects, area of effect, squadrons and what have you, the landscape/terrain of eve is really only this, locking distance and your imagination - this is a huge enhancement to one's imagination.

    Cheers mate +1

    "Not the Boreworms!"

    Jon Dekker
    Dekker Corporation
    #20 - 2015-11-13 18:46:34 UTC
    I would really like to see a "cinematic" camera, similar to one of the camera options in Grand Theft Auto.
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