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Any news of a Faction Warfare change?
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Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#281 - 2015-10-31 04:21:25 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Madrax573 wrote:
Those ideas were what Suger recorded from the round table in Vegas and she posted on here blog. Not her ideas. I think.


All they had to do was read any one of god knows how many threads on FW to find the most common ideas on fixing FW/plex mechanics... timer rollbacks, nuking tier levels, stabs disallow plex timer etc etc. Roll

None of which means that CCP had the Dev capacity to address any of that, or that those were even good ideas or fit into their vision of what FW should be in the first place. That CCP even addressed anything FW related with as much as they've got going on is due to Sugar's efforts - period. If she hadn't stepped up to gather feedback and represent us, there wouldn't have been an FW session at all.

But let's face it - for all it's flaws FW is in a pretty solid place right now. Some of the mechanics are wonky, but even if all they do is tune the missions a bit that alone would be a big change in how FW feels. Given how much CCP has shifted to incremental change, they may actually be planning to tweak a few areas to reduce the biggest pain points and give themselves development time to address the bigger EVE changes that need to happen for he health of the game - links, capitals, nullsec sov, incursions, etc.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#282 - 2015-10-31 06:05:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Portmanteau
Blimey mate... white knight much ?

EDIT ... in case you don't get it, my comment was directed at CCP, not this Sugar Kyle person
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#283 - 2015-10-31 14:28:00 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Madrax573 wrote:
Those ideas were what Suger recorded from the round table in Vegas and she posted on here blog. Not her ideas. I think.


All they had to do was read any one of god knows how many threads on FW to find the most common ideas on fixing FW/plex mechanics... timer rollbacks, nuking tier levels, stabs disallow plex timer etc etc. Roll

None of which means that CCP had the Dev capacity to address any of that, or that those were even good ideas or fit into their vision of what FW should be in the first place. That CCP even addressed anything FW related with as much as they've got going on is due to Sugar's efforts - period. If she hadn't stepped up to gather feedback and represent us, there wouldn't have been an FW session at all.

But let's face it - for all it's flaws FW is in a pretty solid place right now. Some of the mechanics are wonky, but even if all they do is tune the missions a bit that alone would be a big change in how FW feels. Given how much CCP has shifted to incremental change, they may actually be planning to tweak a few areas to reduce the biggest pain points and give themselves development time to address the bigger EVE changes that need to happen for he health of the game - links, capitals, nullsec sov, incursions, etc.


So basically keep our mouth shut even if the ideas ccp is putting forard are pretty stupid at best and a step backwards at worst? Even though we were asked for ideas and non of them were considered. Because having an opinion on the game is just being an entitled **** since its unrealistic to expect ccp to make thier game better because ,devs, even if they are using ;devs; to mate it worse lol.

Basically, trust in ccp. Because they HAVENT been systematically destroying their game with convoluted and contrived mechanics to alienate old players in pursuite of new players that are more interested more instantly rewarding games. Not to say there hasnt been good with the bad. To say we should ignore bad just because they did something good is moronic.

To say sugar kyle is the only reason ccp worked on fw is ludicrous. Ccp allocated dev time and created inferno. With no imput from players outside station lockouts, the only working part. The rest had to be redone months later due to how broken it was, as people had told them it would be. With fw, ccp has only ever done what it wants. Kyle was nothing more than a figurehead.

You are unreal vesk. How long have you been in love with sugar kyle?
Arla Sarain
#284 - 2015-10-31 15:58:06 UTC
Is there no FW little things thread...?

Would be nice to have a dedicated colored bracket for the inplex warp-in beacon. Difficult to see it sometimes. For the large the warp in spot is the anomaly bracket. But the gated sites are a bit gimmicky.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#285 - 2015-10-31 15:59:28 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


You are unreal vesk. How long have you been in love with sugar kyle?


Lol! Vesk, it's not about being ungrateful. I don't know how long Sugar has been accepting information for FW, but if CCP wants ideas on how to help new players joining the militia, than it figures that they should also care about the overall health of this zone. You want a lovely brick road, but that little wizard is still behind the curtain, and getting louder. You said FW is in a good place, but are you only speaking on behalf of our war zone? Missions require a small adjustment, you say, but in what way exactly? FW was a testing ground for the t1 rebalance, and also the T3D's. We've helped shift the paradigm of recent nerfs and buffs. Expecting them to make two changes that could take probably a day it's not too much to ask.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#286 - 2015-11-01 15:35:16 UTC
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/Meetings/summit/CSM10-S1-D4.pdf

So the main issues right now with FW as a whole are:


  • Broken missions / mission balance
  • Plex Farming
  • Awoxing / militia overviews / cross-faction plexing
  • Standings


A lot of folks have a lot of different ideas about how to address them, but if you read the minutes they're all actually touched on in the minutes:

Mission balance - CCP Affinity is specifically looking at rebalancing missions, and notes that they'll be adding fast webbing frigates to the L4s in order to cut down on bomber alts being able to run them easily

Plex farming - CCP is adding NPC patrols to FW first, which will move around the system and engage players. And yes, they'll chase you if you run. In part this is using FW space as a test bed for the mechanic before they expand it to other areas of the game - but it will definitely make AFK plexing a lot harder than it is now. And they won't even have to introduce gimmicky mechanics like banning WCS or cloaks to do it.

Awoxing / cross-militia - They're planning on breaking up the cross-faction alliances and making it a four-way war. That will instantly solve the cross-militia awoxing issues and such. They're aware that they'll need to adjust the tier stuff if that happens, and they know they'll need to find a way to move between the Cal/Gal and Min/Amarr zones more easily, but they note they're working on that stuff too.

Standings - For one thing, you'll get suspect timers for entering plexes, which should make it a lot easier for us to engage neutrals without tanking our security status all to hell. They're also looking at allowing individuals in a corp, or corps in an alliance, to join FW without the entire organization needing to. CCP Affininty mentioned they'd even like to decouple standings from FW completely as it would solve a lot of issues.

So, when I read people bitching about how nothing is changing and noone listens and they're not doing anything and whine whine whine, it really makes we want to slap the hell out of folks. Folks like Sugar Kyle and Gorski Carr, among others I'm sure, specifically went out to the community in multiple channels to gather feedback on FW. And they pushed to get it addressed during the summit so that they'd be able to tell us players what CCP had in mind. So CCP is working on updating things as they can, while keeping in mind that a total revamp might be needed down the road.

From the minutes:
CCP Affinity wrote:

A lot of the feedback we got from players is that they'd like an overhaul of the full system, but we don't feel that is beneficial at present when a lot of the feedback we're hearing is "we don't have enough to do in FW", "there's not enough PvP targets", "there's no reliable PvE" so we want to fix that side of things first, then perhaps the system issues go away, we'll see.


If you look at the overall EVE game right now, the roadmap, the massive freaking changes they're doing in terms of structures, nullsec sov, industry, capital ships... they're MASSIVELY shifting the bedrock of what has driven this game for the past 5-7 years at least. The fact that they're even taking FW into account, given that FW lowsec (and yeah mostly Cal/Gal) is one of the most active areas of the game, is a testament to how much folks like Sugar Kyle and Gorski Carr are willing to step up and represent a group of players that has become ever more whiny and entitled.

Grow the hell up already.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#287 - 2015-11-01 16:52:11 UTC
Fake pvp npc's that ruin fights in progress is a horrible idea. Or will they simply hold back for a bit to honor a 1v1, then attack you after. They enter plexes? they roam around like a real player? Adding mimics is not the solution; introducing npc's into places players should fill is, once again, missing the point entirely.
Webbing frigates in missions does not alleviate the problem of the LP ATM's that missions are. K, it hurt the farmers, but if payouts still remain the same, t3d's will simply take their place and those that are mainly responsible for bumping their faction up will continue to do so. While still leaving Galmil with perma jamming in our missions AND an annoying frigate to easily clear with drones.
From the way you speak about the roaming NPC's, it feels as if you actually think this is a good idea? We can shrug on our side as these LP 's come to us while we camp gates. That's pretty cool. We're in a fight against a neutral on a gate, and one of these turns up? Standings hit assumes that neutrals will not be engaged by these faction police?


FW is a place for fighting, not PvE. We are the creators of our content.
Stoic silence changes nothing, and enthusiasm for negative ideas is madness, not maturity.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#288 - 2015-11-01 19:12:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Oreb Wing
I'll read those darn minutes, but if you think this is whining, I will contend with that. It is mostly grumbling about ' improvements ' that have been the cause of these problems due to oversight. Having to constantly revisit changes is stupid, wasteful at best. It's possible now to get it right but they want to change the problem while ignoring the spirit of the entire idea. And who exactly is the originator of these complaints about having nothing to do? I hope they are not Galmil.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#289 - 2015-11-01 20:38:39 UTC
Ves please explain what exactly good do you see from those changes, 'cause mb I'm missing something?

Quote:
Mission balance - CCP Affinity is specifically looking at rebalancing missions, and notes that they'll be adding fast webbing frigates to the L4s in order to cut down on bomber alts being able to run them easily

First of all there is already webbing frigs in some missions. Second of all, was FW missions problem just about how you can do them in a bomber or was it about how hugely different they are in difficulty by comparison. How will adding more webbing frigs will make amarr missions equal to minmatar ones. One will have target painter, missiles plus more webs other will still have just TDs and more webs. What will this change? Minmatar missions will still be the most easy by a mile in comparison to others.
Quote:
Plex farming - CCP is adding NPC patrols to FW first, which will move around the system and engage players. And yes, they'll chase you if you run. In part this is using FW space as a test bed for the mechanic before they expand it to other areas of the game - but it will definitely make AFK plexing a lot harder than it is now. And they won't even have to introduce gimmicky mechanics like banning WCS or cloaks to do it.

This is completely weird one, there is not enough information to make solid opinion, but it does raise some questions. For example I would like to know how will this new "NPC patrols" differentiate farmers from non-farmers, how will they interact with players if they are already engaged in combat with other players, will they use e-war etc.?

It would be fun a few times if after a close fight players will be ganked by one of those "NPC patrols", but after awhile it will become mostly annoying to deal with. What boggles my mind why CSM representatives didn't ask those questions to CCP on the spot.

Suspect timers on entering plexes, individually joining FW and 4 way war is indeed interesting imo so good work there CCP and CSM.

(to be fair it does look like Sugar is trying to bring player feedback to CCP)
Quote:
Sugar - The LP market is pretty volatile and will be even more so with upcoming changes. Mission running and FW LP conflict with each other, and we have a lot of people who just want the LP store revamped in general.

this one was completely ignored by CCP Lol
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#290 - 2015-11-01 20:45:14 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:

This is completely weird one, there is not enough information to make solid opinion, but it does raise some questions. For example I would like to know how will this new "NPC patrols" differentiate farmers from non-farmers, how will they interact with players if they are already engaged in combat with other players, will they use e-war etc.?

It would be fun a few times if after a close fight players will be ganked by one of those "NPC patrols", but after awhile it will become mostly annoying to deal with. What boggles my mind why CSM representatives didn't ask those questions to CCP on the spot.

Suspect timers on entering plexes, individually joining FW and 4 way war is indeed interesting imo so good work there CCP and CSM.


This seems like a very stupid way of fixing AFK plexing which could hurt pvpers. It is unclear how it works but to me it sounds like roaming faction navy ? This is a huge disadvantage for FW pvpers vs neutrals like myself, seems a tad unfair.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#291 - 2015-11-01 20:49:02 UTC
Oreb Wing wrote:
Fake pvp npc's that ruin fights in progress is a horrible idea.


Yep this is my take on it too, as a neutral I would be pissed if NPCs come in and blap my opponent and the last thing we need is more discouragements to engage... seems like this is a PVErs idea with no clue about how pvp works or the motivations/disincentives that surround it.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#292 - 2015-11-01 20:53:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Portmanteau
Veskrashen wrote:


If you look at the overall EVE game right now, the roadmap, the massive freaking changes they're doing in terms of structures, nullsec sov, industry, capital ships... they're MASSIVELY shifting the bedrock of what has driven this game for the past 5-7 years at least. The fact that they're even taking FW into account, given that FW lowsec (and yeah mostly Cal/Gal) is one of the most active areas of the game, is a testament to how much folks like Sugar Kyle and Gorski Carr are willing to step up and represent a group of players that has become ever more whiny and entitled.

Grow the hell up already.


so in a choice between nothing and sh** changes we should grow up and be grateful for the sh**... ok mate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#293 - 2015-11-01 21:42:47 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Quote:
Mission balance - CCP Affinity is specifically looking at rebalancing missions, and notes that they'll be adding fast webbing frigates to the L4s in order to cut down on bomber alts being able to run them easily

First of all there is already webbing frigs in some missions. Second of all, was FW missions problem just about how you can do them in a bomber or was it about how hugely different they are in difficulty by comparison. How will adding more webbing frigs will make amarr missions equal to minmatar ones. One will have target painter, missiles plus more webs other will still have just TDs and more webs. What will this change? Minmatar missions will still be the most easy by a mile in comparison to others.

Two main things. First, the addition of small fast webbing frigates means you need to bring a boat that can actually kill frigates. Second, if you can't kill them quickly, you can't speed tank for crap. These two things combined means that thinly tanked bombers that relied on speed and range to tank the NPCs won't be able to do so anymore. In addition, even if you bring a T3D, you can get webbed down and hammered by the long range BS DPS which isn't an issue at the moment for most farmers.

So, it'll make all missions harder, by requiring you to bring a boat that can actually tank the room legit and deal with the full range of NPC sizes. Those boats are generally not cloaky (unless you're running T3Cs / Stratios), which makes them easier to hunt - and more expensive targets as well.

Quote:
Quote:
Plex farming - CCP is adding NPC patrols to FW first, which will move around the system and engage players. And yes, they'll chase you if you run. In part this is using FW space as a test bed for the mechanic before they expand it to other areas of the game - but it will definitely make AFK plexing a lot harder than it is now. And they won't even have to introduce gimmicky mechanics like banning WCS or cloaks to do it.

This is completely weird one, there is not enough information to make solid opinion, but it does raise some questions. For example I would like to know how will this new "NPC patrols" differentiate farmers from non-farmers, how will they interact with players if they are already engaged in combat with other players, will they use e-war etc.?

It would be fun a few times if after a close fight players will be ganked by one of those "NPC patrols", but after awhile it will become mostly annoying to deal with. What boggles my mind why CSM representatives didn't ask those questions to CCP on the spot.

You're right, we don't know much. And it's not like they're adding them to buff FW - they're just using FW space to test it out. My suspicion is that they'll be able to enter plexes, and if so it'll be dangerous to plex AFK. It could be very difficult when you're fighting someone (kinda reminiscent of the really old school times) but it's a change at least, that ought to impact the way plexing is done.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#294 - 2015-11-01 21:46:54 UTC
Crosi
The issue of lockouts came up before inferno but players repeatedly rejected the idea because they did not want to drive away pvp. Now we see that lockouts are a mixed bag. In this very thread people are saying they don't push systems because they don't want to drive away pvp.

Before inferno players asked for consequences and incentives for plexing and system control. CCP delivered that by giving lp for plexes and the tier system. This has definitely invigorated faction war.


As to the rest:
1) CCP said they would do things - like rollbacks. And now it seems they just completely forgot. Does anyone know what happened? Did they decide it would be to hard to code or something? Is the new team even aware of these promises?

2) We have already been down the route where npcs do the work in plexes. CCP ultimately (and IMO properly) decided that npcs should have very little effect on plexes because they get in the way of pvp. Now I am afraid they are going back on this so that Faction war can be a test bed for some new carebear mechanic they are working on. The fact that they often use Faction war as a "test bed" for other parts of the game (and generally how they treat faction war) makes it clear to me that they do not appreciate the potential of faction war.

EVE needs exciting wars. And given null secs contentment with farming anomolies null sec seems less and less likely to provide that. CCP should fully pursue all of its options toward this end including faction war.

3) It is difficult to understand what their vision for faction war is now. In the past they said they wanted faction plexing in particular to be a pvp activity. But now its unclear. They seem content with the rabbit plexing that plaques faction war. But if we assume they have a vision for faction war, what statistics are they looking at to see if they are achieving their vision? IMO they should look at the amount of pvp that happens in a plex per plex captured. There would probably be other statistics to look at that but that would be an important one.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#295 - 2015-11-01 22:21:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Oreb Wing
I think most of us can get behind two easy, but very big, changes.

•Axe the missions for 6 months. Just make the agents inaccessible. Let's see how FW can get along without them. I think a lot of people that have chimed in about them don't really understand how they work or throw out a load of **** due to bias or attempts to hedge in their own interests, because they themselves exploit them. As it is, Galmil missions in even tier 3 are paying out better than higher tier devalued goods in other militias. That they are so inaccessible to lower SP pilots or small groups makes them that much better for the few that can do them. In Minmatar, two combat high dps frigates can clear an assassination mission in <5 minutes. Yep.

• Cause every plex to spawn two opposing NPC's, and to the damn wind with whatever they choose to shoot. They will most likely switch targets when a player becomes a higher threat over the npc. As it is,I doubt their meager dps can ever be enough to destroy the other NPC's tank by itself, as per Crosi's infinite war. Timer countdown would initiate with obvious conditions met.

Two very simple, very possible, changes. Done with what is currently already present. The only set back I can see is that a skilled Comet might be able to push a large with the assistance of the friendly NPC.

No gimmick restrictions, no PvE, no distractions to engagements. The suspect flag (which hopefully borrows from the Dualing system, but open and for two miniutes) will be a great change.

As for 3rd parties joining FW as in individuals (while remaining in non-fw corps), or corporations being able to join while within a non-FW alliance: Bad. Why? This 'visitor' approach to FW is ridiculous. They want to have the benefits of farming FW without the clear demands of investment as a group? Blaming high standings penalties for shooting friendlies as a reason for wanting the penalties relaxed has more to do with the default overview problem than it being too high, which is nonsense. Most of the reason one side is preferred over another when large entities have joined FW is profit, not pvp content and it's their missioning histories that cause standing issues for their themselves or their group. The theme demands that standings be in place and be an important factor, or you alienate RP'ers and dilute the association this has to the empire factions. Why hasn't anyone spoken of COSMOS agents as a possible source for standings repair? There are methods available. Switching sides is possible and pretty painless this way, yet cannot be repeated, as COSMOS agents are a one-time mission deal because of their weird bpc rewards..
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#296 - 2015-11-02 07:37:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Veskrashen wrote:
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/Meetings/summit/CSM10-S1-D4.pdf

So the main issues right now with FW as a whole are:


  • Broken missions / mission balance
  • Plex Farming
  • Awoxing / militia overviews / cross-faction plexing
  • Standings


A lot of folks have a lot of different ideas about how to address them, but if you read the minutes they're all actually touched on in the minutes:

Mission balance - CCP Affinity is specifically looking at rebalancing missions, and notes that they'll be adding fast webbing frigates to the L4s in order to cut down on bomber alts being able to run them easily

Plex farming - CCP is adding NPC patrols to FW first, which will move around the system and engage players. And yes, they'll chase you if you run. In part this is using FW space as a test bed for the mechanic before they expand it to other areas of the game - but it will definitely make AFK plexing a lot harder than it is now. And they won't even have to introduce gimmicky mechanics like banning WCS or cloaks to do it.

Awoxing / cross-militia - They're planning on breaking up the cross-faction alliances and making it a four-way war. That will instantly solve the cross-militia awoxing issues and such. They're aware that they'll need to adjust the tier stuff if that happens, and they know they'll need to find a way to move between the Cal/Gal and Min/Amarr zones more easily, but they note they're working on that stuff too.

Standings - For one thing, you'll get suspect timers for entering plexes, which should make it a lot easier for us to engage neutrals without tanking our security status all to hell. They're also looking at allowing individuals in a corp, or corps in an alliance, to join FW without the entire organization needing to. CCP Affininty mentioned they'd even like to decouple standings from FW completely as it would solve a lot of issues.

So, when I read people bitching about how nothing is changing and noone listens and they're not doing anything and whine whine whine, it really makes we want to slap the hell out of folks. Folks like Sugar Kyle and Gorski Carr, among others I'm sure, specifically went out to the community in multiple channels to gather feedback on FW. And they pushed to get it addressed during the summit so that they'd be able to tell us players what CCP had in mind. So CCP is working on updating things as they can, while keeping in mind that a total revamp might be needed down the road.

From the minutes:
CCP Affinity wrote:

A lot of the feedback we got from players is that they'd like an overhaul of the full system, but we don't feel that is beneficial at present when a lot of the feedback we're hearing is "we don't have enough to do in FW", "there's not enough PvP targets", "there's no reliable PvE" so we want to fix that side of things first, then perhaps the system issues go away, we'll see.


If you look at the overall EVE game right now, the roadmap, the massive freaking changes they're doing in terms of structures, nullsec sov, industry, capital ships... they're MASSIVELY shifting the bedrock of what has driven this game for the past 5-7 years at least. The fact that they're even taking FW into account, given that FW lowsec (and yeah mostly Cal/Gal) is one of the most active areas of the game, is a testament to how much folks like Sugar Kyle and Gorski Carr are willing to step up and represent a group of players that has become ever more whiny and entitled.

Grow the hell up already.


So 2 decent changes and 2 absolutely tarded changes maes a net positive. Ok vesk, i guess we should shut up and be grateful that ccp are 'improving' their game with 2 terrible changes.

And rats that chase you about is not gimmic but making sensible changes to the isk per hour that wap core stabs enable is. Lol.

Its like you are positioning yourself for a csm run of your own on the full knowlege that that all it offers is an odd trip to iceland for the cost of blind obedience. Not a great feat for a military man i guess :)

Telling people to grow up for complaining about terrible mechanics undoing years of progress is not very mature mate. I know you dont plex a great deal, or even log on that much. But dont expect everyone else to be apathetic about bad mechanics just because sugar kyle is the love of you elife and you seem to want a chance at sniffing her csm seat.

And cerain. Yes, there was concerns with station lock outs, my own included. But generally they were looked forward to and in retrospect a good thing for the type and volume of pvp in fw. Perhaps it was a bigger deal for amarr since such a large portion of the playerbase consised of alpha machs with carier support camping stations? Lol

Also, no one said we dont push systems to safeguard pvp. They said we dont push the entire warzone because of the gargantuan effort along with not wanting to take homesystems due to the effort and ultimate effect it would have on the pvp ecosystem. Though, cherrypicking is the only way you can support most of your arguments i guess. Systems are still attacked, dozens of systems have changes hanes across the warzone in recent months. Gallente are holding the line in anticipation of brave doing somethin meaninful and for the fact that we have had to focus on defence under an organised and distributed attack from cal mil. Once/if they have taken the crappy systemw then there is anticipation of greater things.

I alays got the impression you think fw is broken unless one side is incentivised to keep their boot on the other factions neck. The fact this is not the case, but is just a choice, is exactly why it isnt.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#297 - 2015-11-02 13:58:03 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


Telling people to grow up for complaining about terrible mechanics undoing years of progress is not very mature mate. I know you dont plex a great deal, or even log on that much. But dont expect everyone else to be apathetic about bad mechanics just because sugar kyle is the love of you elife and you seem to want a chance at sniffing her csm seat..


Crosi
Sugar kyle posted the changes she wanted to push on faction war on her blog. Perhaps if you learned how to intereact with people like a normal human being, you could have posted some constructive feedback.

You have to understand that not many people read these forums anymore. No doubt it is because the amount of vitriol some people dish out makes it not worth anyones time or energy.

Crosi Wesdo wrote:

And cerain. Yes, there was concerns with station lock outs, my own included. But generally they were looked forward to and in retrospect a good thing for the type and volume of pvp in fw. Perhaps it was a bigger deal for amarr since such a large portion of the playerbase consised of alpha machs with carier support camping stations? Lol.

Also, no one said we dont push systems to safeguard pvp.


You have no clue about he issues the amarr faced. Minmatar had a huge number of systems and they bugged. You could leave a cloaky ship in a plex and they would stop spawning. So it was *impossible* for us to take back the warzone before they made it take 5xs as long to take a system. I and others in amarr asked if ccp (through petitions and forum posts) could please fix this bug before they implemented this the huge inferno consequences. But they refused. So when we would try to capture a system suddenly the plexes would stop spawning.

It's true some people wanted the station lockouts but on the whole every time it was brought up more people voiced opposition. The opposition centered around the idea that if you want fights then don't drive your enemies away. I think this concern was proven correct. And was stated by Thanatos Marathon:

Thanatos Marathon wrote:


Having said that, it would be a terrible idea. In fact, we don't even want to take Caldari home systems. Killing off all your targets is a great way to end up with no targets.

- Than


Crosi Wesdo wrote:

I alays got the impression you think fw is broken unless one side is incentivised to keep their boot on the other factions neck. The fact this is not the case, but is just a choice, is exactly why it isnt.


This comment makes no sense. Having station lockouts makes it much harder for the smaller faction to operate.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#298 - 2015-11-02 14:13:43 UTC
I'd prefer the timer in each plex to be reduced. Waiting 15-20 minutes doing nothing Is NOT playing a game. Since farmers like to AFK, reduced timers will discourage farming, and encourage FW participants to travel and create conflict.
Arla Sarain
#299 - 2015-11-02 15:05:55 UTC
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
I'd prefer the timer in each plex to be reduced. Waiting 15-20 minutes doing nothing Is NOT playing a game.

Thank you.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#300 - 2015-11-03 00:17:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Cearain wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


Telling people to grow up for complaining about terrible mechanics undoing years of progress is not very mature mate. I know you dont plex a great deal, or even log on that much. But dont expect everyone else to be apathetic about bad mechanics just because sugar kyle is the love of you elife and you seem to want a chance at sniffing her csm seat..


Crosi
Sugar kyle posted the changes she wanted to push on faction war on her blog. Perhaps if you learned how to intereact with people like a normal human being, you could have posted some constructive feedback.

You have to understand that not many people read these forums anymore. No doubt it is because the amount of vitriol some people dish out makes it not worth anyones time or energy.

Crosi Wesdo wrote:

And cerain. Yes, there was concerns with station lock outs, my own included. But generally they were looked forward to and in retrospect a good thing for the type and volume of pvp in fw. Perhaps it was a bigger deal for amarr since such a large portion of the playerbase consised of alpha machs with carier support camping stations? Lol.

Also, no one said we dont push systems to safeguard pvp.


You have no clue about he issues the amarr faced. Minmatar had a huge number of systems and they bugged. You could leave a cloaky ship in a plex and they would stop spawning. So it was *impossible* for us to take back the warzone before they made it take 5xs as long to take a system. I and others in amarr asked if ccp (through petitions and forum posts) could please fix this bug before they implemented this the huge inferno consequences. But they refused. So when we would try to capture a system suddenly the plexes would stop spawning.

It's true some people wanted the station lockouts but on the whole every time it was brought up more people voiced opposition. The opposition centered around the idea that if you want fights then don't drive your enemies away. I think this concern was proven correct. And was stated by Thanatos Marathon:

Thanatos Marathon wrote:


Having said that, it would be a terrible idea. In fact, we don't even want to take Caldari home systems. Killing off all your targets is a great way to end up with no targets.

- Than


Crosi Wesdo wrote:

I alays got the impression you think fw is broken unless one side is incentivised to keep their boot on the other factions neck. The fact this is not the case, but is just a choice, is exactly why it isnt.


This comment makes no sense. Having station lockouts makes it much harder for the smaller faction to operate.


First of all. Blogs are not a normal way of interacting lol. Blogs are literally a soap box. Forums, are by definition the place to discuss things. Just because some people want to drive click revenue in their direction does not make it a good thing. I imagine, having a narrow audience who like you by the nature of them seeking your silly blog might bolster some peoples self worth. In reality, you cant fracture the community amogst 100 different blogs and ezpect a representative view across all of them. Unlike you, i play the game more than i read what others write about it. Others who think that popularity = good perspective on how the game should/does play. Id wager that the bulk of players xont read blogs or the forum.

Secondly, yes. Taking that one paragraph from one of thans posts was a magnificent example of your cherry picking. Thanks for that. Me and then dont see eye to eye on many things, but we both know that the effort involved in taking the warzone is gargantuan and that is as primary a reason as any other might be for not taking it and subsequently holding it for any period.

Another reason, while the pendulum is a phantom of its former self it can be seen. Effort, and willingness to displace you foe can only come about when several factors align. Those factors are the pendulum and range from the ones mentions to quite subtle ones like general moral, restlessness, a narrative cause and quite a few othera. and they just havent really been aligned for us for a while.

Though as always, you point your finger at a single one and blame that for everything you dont like about the game.