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Dev blog: Reworking Capital Ships: And thus it begins!

First post First post
Author
Oskolda Eriker
WH0RE SQUAD
ATTENTION WH0RES
#41 - 2015-10-25 11:26:35 UTC
Oskolda Eriker wrote:
Maxxor Brutor wrote:
Oskolda Eriker wrote:
Killing High WH, Thx CCP


Plz, we'll adapt. Current farming mechancis are silly anyways.

On a side note... it's sad to see even CCP writing "hangers" :p


and we lose another half of wh corps
why (3xlarge cannons)x3 slots have dps without siege less than a cruiser?!

You can jam my dread, sure I want remote tracking comps, and remote sensor booster and remote antijam
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#42 - 2015-10-25 11:27:05 UTC
Anth9rax wrote:
Am I ever going to be able to Dock my Nyx, what a waste of a character, just sitting in it.

The XL Citadels are coming with EVE Online: Citadel in Spring 2016. Smile

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Fishymonster
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#43 - 2015-10-25 11:27:14 UTC
Mr Floydy wrote:

Fishymonster wrote:
You are also removing fighter-bombers from the game, im sure the people that trained fighters up to level 5 just for the ability to use fighter-bombers will greatly appreciate that.

Did you even read the blog?
Heavy Fighters - Optimized for launching waves of bombs or torpedoes, able to do tremendous damage to capitals and structures.

That sounds like Fighter Bombers to me.... Just with a slightly changed name? (oh noes)



Quote:

Carriers & Super-Carriers will launch up to 5 separate squadrons at a time. We are intending on introducing 3 classes of fighters, these will replace all existing fighters and fighter-bombers.


Unless they neglected to announce that Carriers will only be able to do anti-frigate/anti-fighter only dps and crap ewar. carriers will be able to launch heavy fighters.
rvbk
Regicide and Sororitas
#44 - 2015-10-25 11:28:38 UTC
Hooray! Another _wonderfull_ update ... I can say only one thing : "Frameshift drive charging" !
Dreekus
Pls Be Gentle
#45 - 2015-10-25 11:30:20 UTC
As dred pilot,
I WANT to be optimistic but without numbers all I hear is "nerf tracking and nerf dps of normal guns, add some weak guns that do max 3x dps of BS, nerf EWAR immunity while in siege, still disallow remote assistance, nerf tank"

Sorry if that sounds like whine but without numbers is not very nice. It is nice that we will get T2 modules.

I just ask that CCP will keep in mind wormholers and how they use capitals

ATM dred needs more than 30sec to target BS. What if he get jammed? Are you going to remove scan resolution penalty from Siege?
In PvP it seems you expect ppl to use ship that is 10times more expensive than BS(in Wspace this is not big problem), have 3x dps of BS but weights like 10 BS (and THIS is problem).

When adding FAX machine pls remember also about mass. It should not be heavier then carrier if you hope that ppl will use it in wormholes during offensive.

In PVE
In dev blog you said you are going to lower EHP of dreds and their current guns dps to compensate. So Dred will do less dps and tank less, are you going to nerf Sleeples Guardian to compensate?

Just please keep in mind that if you nerf too much wh farming another region of space will just move to incursion as source of income. What I like now about Wspace now is that after you make some preparation you get high return. We do not have luxury of just logging in and warping to anomaly to earn some isk, everything takes time and everywhere is cloaked proteus.


Waiting for more detailed devblogs to come. I am somewhat optimistic.
Mr Floydy
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2015-10-25 11:34:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Floydy
+1 to not really liking the Force Auxiliary name.

Fishymonster wrote:


Quote:

Carriers & Super-Carriers will launch up to 5 separate squadrons at a time. We are intending on introducing 3 classes of fighters, these will replace all existing fighters and fighter-bombers.


Unless they neglected to announce that Carriers will only be able to do anti-frigate/anti-fighter only dps and crap ewar. carriers will be able to launch heavy fighters.


Not sure what your point is? Carriers/Supercarriers will be able to launch heavy fighters. Which sound like they're going to be basically exactly what Fighter Bombers are now. I'd imagine the current skills for fighter bombers will be needed for launching the heavy fighters.

If they aren't required, you'll get your SP refunded so you can put into something you want.

I really don't get how people can get so worked up over specifics, when nothing has had concrete stats detailed.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#47 - 2015-10-25 11:34:47 UTC
Obvious question is obvious but wasn't asked, when hp levels are changed are the built prices changed accordingly?

Even if some farmville online people are getting cranky about their farmlands and produce infinite amounts of isk, other cannot field 100 billion boats every day.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Gabriel Karade
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#48 - 2015-10-25 11:35:10 UTC
Carneval wrote:
Carriers get fighter squadrons... Guys, seriously, I dont want to play another World of Warships carrier gameplay style. It should be EVE Online, not a bad copy of another game.
What?

This is a brilliant move; counts as a single entity for server OMGWTFLAG reduction purposes, while doing away with the immersion breaking '"random +XXX% bonus to hit points, +XXX% to damage e.t.c" quick fix approach used currently, AND.... it adds plenty of headroom for future scale-ability and features....

Overall major +1 for what is being proposed.

I'm also curious as to whether this road map could be applied to regular drones? i.e. no more 'super drones', but rather 'hello Dominix drone squadrons'...

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2015-10-25 11:35:18 UTC
Dreekus wrote:
As dred pilot,
In PVE
In dev blog you said you are going to lower EHP of dreds and their current guns dps to compensate. So Dred will do less dps and tank less, are you going to nerf Sleeples Guardian to compensate?

Just please keep in mind that if you nerf too much wh farming another region of space will just move to incursion as source of income. What I like now about Wspace now is that after you make some preparation you get high return. We do not have luxury of just logging in and warping to anomaly to earn some isk, everything takes time and everywhere is cloaked proteus.


Waiting for more detailed devblogs to come. I am somewhat optimistic.

I think we can all agree that removing loot from Sleepless Guardians spawned via capital escalation will solve these problems.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Oskolda Eriker
WH0RE SQUAD
ATTENTION WH0RES
#50 - 2015-10-25 11:39:54 UTC
Querns wrote:


I think we can all agree that removing loot from Sleepless Guardians spawned via capital escalation will solve these problems.

Yes,
after removing endless anoms in nullsek L5 in lowsec and incursions
and restrict plexs in K-space
I agree

Gabriel Karade
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#51 - 2015-10-25 11:41:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Karade
Moe Lesture wrote:
--- DOOMSDAYS ---

Not every sickle doomsday needs to be a racially colored laser... The Vegas crowd audibly boo'd when you mentioned this.

Take for example this crude picture I made: http://imgur.com/68KAXYe

I took inspiration from the shock rifle in Unreal Tournament.

+1 on this.

e.g. for the Leviathan you could take a leaf out of the 'how unguided torpedoes were fired in RL by Submarines' book...

...they (right up to certain 1980's example) were fired as a spread, so as to stitch a perpendicular (or near perpendicular) line at a given range, along which, one or two might intersect the poor sap in the surface ship...

... now imagine a line of humongous missiles from the Leviathan, and blossoming explosions along that sickle line.... Twisted


Edit: For the Ragnarok it could be a target painter sweep, followed by a barrage of munitions (or missiles) splitting into sub-munitions across the sickle line.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

Titus Tallang
EVE University
Ivy League
#52 - 2015-10-25 11:41:08 UTC
Here's my opinions on the changes. These are given from my point of view as someone who drops triage in relatively small numbers (typically 2-3) on medium-sized fights (50-100 people a side).


  • Splitting Carriers and Force Auxiliaries
  • Yes, this makes complete sense, and has been coming for a while already. A "carrier" being primarily a repair platform was a point of confusion, and combining strong spider-tanking ability with being a drone boat was a clusterfuck to balance. Good call.

  • Making capital remote repairs less effective outside triage
  • Makes sense. No objections.

  • Unable to refit with a weapons timer
  • I feel like this is a terrible idea for triage. Effective combat refitting is one of the things that sets a good triage pilot apart from a great triage pilot, and one of the primary ways you can exhibit piloting skill in a highly immobile ship class.
    While I understand your notion that combat refitting is broken in the current spider-tanking slowcat meta, I feel like this issue would correct itself with the newly changed role system without needing further intervention.
    Instead, disable combat refitting for all ships with weapons timer, then give the siege and triage modules an additional bonus "Allows refitting at a friendly Ship Maintenance Bay regardless of recent aggression." This serves to keep refitting in check for larger blobs (triage/siege has no n+1 effect on tank), preserves the incredibly important use case for smaller gangs, and also makes the option of combat refitting both something unique to the class and something that is more readily apparent to newer players than it is now.

  • No capital will have complete electronic warfare immunity
  • Makes sense to some degree. Keep in mind that I am once again speaking from the triage/siege use case - I am fine with non-binary electronic warfare affecting the ship in a way that noticably impacts it without crippling it complete. Damping a triage so that it has 20 second lock times should not be possible. Damping it so its 2 second lock time becomes a 4 second lock time is fair game.
    Also, I feel non-binary ewar (ECM) should be completely resisted by triage/siege mode. On ships such as capitals, regardless of how high the resistance stat goes, as long as it is not 100%, it is still a coin flip that can cause an enormous impact on the fight. If you throw a random jam onto the enemy FAX and it lands, you just disabled the entirety of enemy logistics for 20 seconds, and almost definitely turned the fight in your favor. This happens regardless of whether the chance for this to happen is 1% or 10%.

  • Base HP reduced
  • Bleh. I feel it takes away from the uniqueness and fantasy of the ship class. If a ship is so humongous that it dwarfs its surroundings, let it be a hulk of HP that takes a bit of grinding through - not something that can explode within a few seconds if you look at it the wrong way. Killing triage right now consists of crippling it, then slowly chewing through the behemoth until it finally explodes, turning the tide of the fight. This feels awesome. Crippling it then blowing it up in 10 seconds does not.

  • New Capital Modules
  • Sure, I guess. Prop mods will make supers really hard to catch though. You are giving them 10 second align while tank fit.

  • New HAW Batteries
  • Bleh. I feel blap dreads are currently fine. Why would you bring a 3bil hull that does 3 battleships worth of damage if you can just bring 3 battleships at a fraction of the cost. Especially when the 3bil hull has lots of downsides, but very few upsides, compared to the aforementioned battleships.

  • New Fighter gameplay
  • Indifferent pending details. It could be neat, it could not be neat. Depends on how well you pull it off. Just make sure it doesn't completely fall over and die under server load.

  • New super weapons
  • Eh, sure. Why not. Just make them look awesome, and give an incentive to actually commit a 100b hull to the fight. Y'know, now that it's really really easy to tackle it.

Director of Education - EVE University - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#53 - 2015-10-25 11:44:36 UTC
Combat refitting needs to die. There is no skill involved in switching your modules to tank when you see yellow boxes. No ship should be able to mellifluously mutate to the exact optimal configuration for whatever situation they are in. Your fitting choices should be meaningful.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2015-10-25 11:45:25 UTC
Oskolda Eriker wrote:
Querns wrote:


I think we can all agree that removing loot from Sleepless Guardians spawned via capital escalation will solve these problems.

Yes,
after removing endless anoms in nullsek L5 in lowsec and incursions
and restrict plexs in K-space
I agree


Fine by me. Death to all unbounded ISK faucets.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Jack Hayson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2015-10-25 11:51:30 UTC
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
Mate, this won't be your issue, quick reshipping of the enemy will as they mentioned clones coming to wormholes at the Vegas event.


They specifically stated that Med clones wouldn't be allowed in w-space, only clone swapping.
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#56 - 2015-10-25 12:03:18 UTC
Jack Hayson wrote:
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
Mate, this won't be your issue, quick reshipping of the enemy will as they mentioned clones coming to wormholes at the Vegas event.


They specifically stated that Med clones wouldn't be allowed in w-space, only clone swapping.


They specifically stated many things many times. Guess what's coming with citadels. Per the Structure Q&A
Baron Holbach
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#57 - 2015-10-25 12:03:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Baron Holbach
hmm, i read this dev blog like 3 times and also whats those eve vegas presentations and would like to say you guys should give out this dev blog first and those by the look of them made with mobile phone videos from this eve-vegas was horrible.

however i still 2 big issues here:

first is that it will be big nerf for most titan pilots - bit like back to old area of effect dd, when usually only fc titans was able to use it and everyone else just sit in backrow and do nothing (or was only called in if this say'd fc titan got tackled to save them). (spoking here dd neuting everything near by)


probably biggest issue is that, i quote what was in dev blog

Quote:
Under the Citadel expansion’s capital changes, the bar to killing capitals is limited to what a single Force Auxiliary in Triage can tank. If you can kill that, eventually you can kill the entire capital fleet...assuming you can stay alive and keep them tackled (smile)


its a quite ****-up, as i don't talk about b-r but even smaller capitals fights - its impossible for triages to stay a live with self rep - they just die - whatever they do. It don't mean that in modern cap fights capitals don't die - but they die if you can overcome enemy reps - and those reps are same ships that do also damage - but not with after citadel.
Its same thing for current subcapital fights - if you can overcome enemy logistic reps - ships will start die. And logistics also kind of spider-tank between each other, those new capitals should be able to make it also - ofc triage reps will always stay way superior to standard ones.



Also i find it hard to see any postive things with those new capital guns to shoot subcapitals - why peopls using black dreads (or tracking titans in past) is they massive dps... 10k or so, that can **** subcapitals - but with this suggested dps 1-2k dps, its nothing special and i don't see how this can change be actually relevant as there are subcapitls that can do as much dps even atm (vindicator!)
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#58 - 2015-10-25 12:05:34 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
Oskolda Eriker wrote:
Killing High WH, Thx CCP


Oskolda Eriker wrote:
Querns wrote:


I think we can all agree that removing loot from Sleepless Guardians spawned via capital escalation will solve these problems.

Yes,
after removing endless anoms in nullsek L5 in lowsec and incursions
and restrict plexs in K-space
I agree



Quit whinging and adapt.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

Oskolda Eriker
WH0RE SQUAD
ATTENTION WH0RES
#59 - 2015-10-25 12:09:33 UTC
helana Tsero wrote:


Quit whinging and adapt.

From noname, ok
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#60 - 2015-10-25 12:10:13 UTC
Baron Holbach wrote:
hmm, i read this dev blog like 3 times and also whats those eve vegas presentations and would like to say you guys should give out this dev blog first and those by the look of them made with mobile phone videos from this eve-vegas was horrible.

however i still 2 big issues here:

first is that it will be big nerf for most titan pilots - bit like back to old area of effect dd, when usually only fc titans was able to use it and everyone else just sit in backrow and do nothing (or was only called in if this say'd fc titan got tackled to save them). (spoking here dd neuting everything near by)


probably biggest issue is that, i quote what was in dev blog

Quote:
Under the Citadel expansion’s capital changes, the bar to killing capitals is limited to what a single Force Auxiliary in Triage can tank. If you can kill that, eventually you can kill the entire capital fleet...assuming you can stay alive and keep them tackled (smile)


its a quite ****-up, as i don't talk about b-r but even smaller capitals fights - its impossible for triages to stay a live with self rep - they just die - whatever they do. It don't mean that in modern cap fights capitals don't die - but they die if you can overcome enemy reps - and those reps are same ships that do also damage - but not with after citadel.
Its same thing for current subcapital fights - if you can overcome enemy logistic reps - ships will start die. And logistics also kind of spider-tank between each other, those new capitals should be able to make it also - ofc triage reps will always stay way superior to standard ones.



Also i find it hard to see any postive things with those new capital guns to shoot subcapitals - why peopls using black dreads (or tracking titans in past) is they massive dps... 10k or so, that can **** subcapitals - but with this suggested dps 1-2k dps, its nothing special and i don't see how this can change be actually relevant as there are subcapitls that can do as much dps even atm (vindicator!)


Don't forget also now everything can interfere with those modes. All outside interference is now viable in conflict. Most likely reps will be allowed in, since ewar and the rest are also now.