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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4801 - 2015-10-24 16:48:14 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
How about NO?

If people don't like what they are buying they simply should not buy it. Countless times I said already we do not need more super pilots.
Noobs are noobs for a reason.

In addition to that you are killing your own game. EVE is supposed to last forever. How do you want to accomplish that if your playerbase is done training in 2 days?

Can you hear that sound?


Right, that is the sound of EVE Offline.


you people have this really really strange idea that eve has but one activity - the skill queue.

you are aware there's more to eve than the skill queue... right?

Why you asking me that, iv'e been telling Lootit and Dror that a few thousand messages ago, but apparently its not worth the effort.


i'm not asking you that.

seriously dude, learn to read.

Im just replying Stark styleBlink

You are best in that kind of things.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Dave Stark
#4802 - 2015-10-24 16:50:00 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

no, it isn't. we've established many times how new players can earn billions. go and watch the meta show where the leader of goonswarm explains it - you don't just have to take my word for it, you see.


At least provide links for such things you state, might help you get some credibility.


i linked it pages and page ago, you should have already watched it.


I do not need it, I was trying to teach you how to get some credibility. Random guy joining now and reading your post can just mark you as bs poster over it as you talk about something that can be easily linked without the link itself. Ie that is how you make proper post with argument as not many will read previous 200+ pages.


people are reading all 200, trust me.

the like spam i'm getting in my notifications means there's some one reading all 200 pages.
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#4803 - 2015-10-24 16:58:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Don ZOLA
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

no, it isn't. we've established many times how new players can earn billions. go and watch the meta show where the leader of goonswarm explains it - you don't just have to take my word for it, you see.


At least provide links for such things you state, might help you get some credibility.


i linked it pages and page ago, you should have already watched it.


I do not need it, I was trying to teach you how to get some credibility. Random guy joining now and reading your post can just mark you as bs poster over it as you talk about something that can be easily linked without the link itself. Ie that is how you make proper post with argument as not many will read previous 200+ pages.


people are reading all 200, trust me.

the like spam i'm getting in my notifications means there's some one reading all 200 pages.


Not sure how that can be related unless you check every single like you get. If you have so much time to waste, i am speechless :D

But interesting that you are pointing that out implying people like your comments, while it is just couple of you fighting for the "same cause" here, liking each others posts :D

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Dave Stark
#4804 - 2015-10-24 17:04:06 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
Not sure how that can be related unless you check every single like you get. If you have so much time to waste, i am speechless :D

But interesting that you are pointing that out implying people like your comments, while it is just couple of you fighting for the "same cause" here, liking each others posts :D


uh, when some one likes your post it shows up in the top right in the notifications bar.

the person liking my posts (it tells you who likes them in the notification) has yet to post. i've never even heard of them.
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#4805 - 2015-10-24 17:06:44 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Not sure how that can be related unless you check every single like you get. If you have so much time to waste, i am speechless :D

But interesting that you are pointing that out implying people like your comments, while it is just couple of you fighting for the "same cause" here, liking each others posts :D


uh, when some one likes your post it shows up in the top right in the notifications bar.

the person liking my posts (it tells you who likes them in the notification) has yet to post. i've never even heard of them.


Yes, I am aware of that, but it does not show on which page the post is ^^.

In the other part i surely believe :D

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Dave Stark
#4806 - 2015-10-24 17:09:52 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Not sure how that can be related unless you check every single like you get. If you have so much time to waste, i am speechless :D

But interesting that you are pointing that out implying people like your comments, while it is just couple of you fighting for the "same cause" here, liking each others posts :D


uh, when some one likes your post it shows up in the top right in the notifications bar.

the person liking my posts (it tells you who likes them in the notification) has yet to post. i've never even heard of them.


Yes, I am aware of that, but it does not show on which page the post is ^^.

In the other part i surely believe :D


yes it does, click on the alert and it takes you directly to the post that has been liked.

anyway i have a restaurant reservation - bon soir.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4807 - 2015-10-24 17:10:03 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Not sure how that can be related unless you check every single like you get. If you have so much time to waste, i am speechless :D

But interesting that you are pointing that out implying people like your comments, while it is just couple of you fighting for the "same cause" here, liking each others posts :D


uh, when some one likes your post it shows up in the top right in the notifications bar.

the person liking my posts (it tells you who likes them in the notification) has yet to post. i've never even heard of them.


Yes, I am aware of that, but it does not show on which page the post is ^^.

In the other part i surely believe :D

It will show what post was liked when you click on them.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#4808 - 2015-10-24 17:11:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Don ZOLA
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Not sure how that can be related unless you check every single like you get. If you have so much time to waste, i am speechless :D

But interesting that you are pointing that out implying people like your comments, while it is just couple of you fighting for the "same cause" here, liking each others posts :D


uh, when some one likes your post it shows up in the top right in the notifications bar.

the person liking my posts (it tells you who likes them in the notification) has yet to post. i've never even heard of them.


Yes, I am aware of that, but it does not show on which page the post is ^^.

In the other part i surely believe :D


yes it does, click on the alert and it takes you directly to the post that has been liked.

anyway i have a restaurant reservation - bon soir.


Exactly and that`s what I referred up with:

Not sure how that can be related unless you check every single like you get. If you have so much time to waste, i am speechless :D


Just proves your reading and comprehension skills :D


Au revoir

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#4809 - 2015-10-24 17:13:26 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Not sure how that can be related unless you check every single like you get. If you have so much time to waste, i am speechless :D

But interesting that you are pointing that out implying people like your comments, while it is just couple of you fighting for the "same cause" here, liking each others posts :D


uh, when some one likes your post it shows up in the top right in the notifications bar.

the person liking my posts (it tells you who likes them in the notification) has yet to post. i've never even heard of them.


Yes, I am aware of that, but it does not show on which page the post is ^^.

In the other part i surely believe :D

It will show what post was liked when you click on them.


Yes, as I said in my first comment. Somehow I am not surprised you and Dave are on the same side :D

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4810 - 2015-10-24 17:15:53 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Not sure how that can be related unless you check every single like you get. If you have so much time to waste, i am speechless :D

But interesting that you are pointing that out implying people like your comments, while it is just couple of you fighting for the "same cause" here, liking each others posts :D


uh, when some one likes your post it shows up in the top right in the notifications bar.

the person liking my posts (it tells you who likes them in the notification) has yet to post. i've never even heard of them.


Yes, I am aware of that, but it does not show on which page the post is ^^.

In the other part i surely believe :D

It will show what post was liked when you click on them.


Yes, as I said in my first comment. Somehow I am not surprised you and Dave are on the same side :D

Same thing about you and Levi.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#4811 - 2015-10-24 17:19:13 UTC
General Lootit wrote:

Same thing about you and Levi.


Cannot comment on his posting, I am not reading his posts much, I am mainly challenging Dave all the time, you see I did not even pay attention to you. :)

But maybe you can provide me some counter arguments on my concerns? Before just labeling me same as someone else who you think is wrong? Or you will just join "noise without arguments" club?

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two
#4812 - 2015-10-24 17:20:41 UTC
I still support this feature. 241 pages and not one logical argument against it to change my view.



Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#4813 - 2015-10-24 17:21:20 UTC
Sasha Sen wrote:
I still support this feature. 241 pages and not one logical argument against it to change my view.





I feel sorry for your logic then :|

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two
#4814 - 2015-10-24 17:25:38 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
Sasha Sen wrote:
I still support this feature. 241 pages and not one logical argument against it to change my view.





I feel sorry for your logic then :|


Maybe you could donate a skill pack to me out of pity then?
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#4815 - 2015-10-24 17:31:54 UTC
Sasha Sen wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:



I feel sorry for your logic then :|


Maybe you could donate a skill pack to me out of pity then?


I could.

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4816 - 2015-10-24 17:42:22 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
General Lootit wrote:

Same thing about you and Levi.


Cannot comment on his posting, I am not reading his posts much, I am mainly challenging Dave all the time, you see I did not even pay attention to you. :)

But maybe you can provide me some counter arguments on my concerns? Before just labeling me same as someone else who you think is wrong? Or you will just join "noise without arguments" club?

I don't mind if you repeat your concerns but I'm can't guarante that I will be able to invalidate them.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#4817 - 2015-10-24 17:50:45 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
This proposal caters to instant gratification sort of players. Those players will never work out in EVE anyway. It is not the kind of game for them. At the same time it annoys and demoralizes the core players.

Why would this "annoy and demoralise" core players? If "instant gratification" players flood into EVE, boost their characters with SP packets, fly around cluelessly in bling ships, and get blown to pieces over and over again until they leave - just what exactly is the problem?

Is it that you cannot handle the entertainment? Is it that you cannot stand CCP making money? Are you opposed to having large numbers of logins showing in your launcher window?

If there are players who cannot deal with EVE in the long run, but who through this feature will spend tons of cash on this game in the ultimately mistaken idea that they can pay to win - then how please is that not great for everybody but them?

As you say, they will be gone sooner or later anyway. But this will make them leave later, and in the meantime they pay CCP's server bills and provide you with endless hours of pew-pew entertainment (and a source for ISK, those skill packets and bling ships have to come from somewhere).

The supposed influx of EVE-incompatible players is at worst irrelevant, at best highly beneficial to everybody else. There is only one thing that is worth discussing here as far as core play goes:

This feature would ultimately increase the number of "up to about 30M SP" players and alts in game, and I mean players and alts that are EVE-compatible enough to be around for quite some time. Furthermore, these players and alts would have their SP "better tuned" to specific aims. So basically, you will get an increase in low to medium, but properly, SP-trained players in EVE.

Now, are you for that or against that, as far as "core play" goes? I have a hard time seeing how this can negatively affect vets, unless perhaps if they have grown accustomed to shooting low SP fish in a space barrel.


Very good question.

There are certain core mechanics and policies in EVE that make up what it is. These, lets call them values are deeply ingrained in the players. EVE has become more than a game. It is a virtual reality, a hobby, an IDENTITY for many of the players. Whenever a real or perceived attack on those values happens it is a direct attack on the players identity.

The constant, steady XP/SP gain is one of them. It is tied to time and thus does not pressure the players to grind instead allowing them to explore the universe and all it has to offer. It is also a beautiful and unique system that makes EVE stand out among the rest of MMOs. Allowing people to grind or pay for SP is breaking the fundamental values of the game.

Again it has NOTHING to do with helping new players, we're all for that. Personally, this system would not affect me at all if it was hard capped at 30-50mil SP. But then we would be sticking our newbros with that same problem. How do you think a few months old player will feel when they encounter a three day old character that destroys them in a solo fight because he bought SP. Don't you think that those that say "I can't compete with veterans coz they've been playing too long" will be replaced with even more who say "I can't compete with veterans AND newbies that have thick wallets to P2W."

I reject the notion that CCP should farm those people for their money. We could have been nearing 1million subs at this point if CCP stuck to the values. We could reach 1million subs if they rediscover their strength and what makes EVE great. You're hoping that they'll make money of whales while sacrificing the core mechanics. I highly doubt it, I think its only going to harm their profits.

A personal note on fatigue. We've been arguing and reasoning with CCP on this or that change for years. Every time they ignore and waste our efforts to give feedback it results in player fatigue. We keep fighting because we love EVE and we love CCP for it is truly an awesome company, they just need to get their **** together. There is a time however when people get too exhausted, too demoralized and too disenfranchised. Many have either given up or continue to cling on simply because there is nothing else out there that comes close to EVE. Personally I stopped posting and giving feedback over a year ago and hell knows when my fatigue timer will expire.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#4818 - 2015-10-24 17:56:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Don ZOLA
General Lootit wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
General Lootit wrote:

Same thing about you and Levi.


Cannot comment on his posting, I am not reading his posts much, I am mainly challenging Dave all the time, you see I did not even pay attention to you. :)

But maybe you can provide me some counter arguments on my concerns? Before just labeling me same as someone else who you think is wrong? Or you will just join "noise without arguments" club?

I don't mind if you repeat your concerns but I'm can't guarante that I will be able to invalidate them.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6100535#post6100535

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6101499#post6101499

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6107198#post6107198

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6107200#post6107200

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6107202#post6107202


First one was mostly sarcasm, I did not realize how serious CCP is about this. Then I started writing my concerns with more details :)

You do not have to invalidate them. Maybe you will come up with one counter argument which would make me change a part of my opinion. Then someone else comes up with another etc and then you get me to support this. Until someone does it I am strongly against it for the reasons I have mentioned but I am not here with "divine truth" which cannot be changed if proper arguments are brought up. Or maybe you will get another point of view on the subject as well. I have to warn you, it`s a long read :)

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Jared Khanar
#4819 - 2015-10-24 18:15:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jared Khanar
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/accord-reached-at-ccps-special-summit/

Quote:

It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.

The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. The CSM, under NDA, has been presented with CCP‘s plans for continued evolution of the business model and agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle. CCP has committed to sharing their plans with the CSM on this front on an ongoing basis.

[...]

Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ‘gold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ‘game destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage.


http://www.gamewatcher.com/news/2011-04-07-eve-online-to-sell-vanity-items-only-as-micro-transactions

Quote:

"It is CCP's plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only," said senior producer Arnar Hrafyn Gylfason. CCP and the CSM put together an emergency summit to deal with the mob.

"There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store," continued Gylfason.

"The investment of money in Eve should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. The CSM, under NDA, has been presented with CCP's plans for continued evolution of the business model and agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle. CCP has committed to sharing their plans with the CSM on this front on an ongoing basis." Lack of communication to players was the problem, say CSM and CCP.

[...]

"We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins," continued Gianturco.

[...]

"We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage."


(EDIT: Just because I´m a very curious guy Roll Are there logs or infos regarding the discussions about this topic, between ccp and the csm, released anywhere?)

Please don´t introduce items that have the potential to change the gameplay experience in the EVE Store.
If you feel an existing feature or mechanic needs to be changed in order to provide a fun gameplay to your customers, please do not "solve" this problem with a solution that requires additional payment (connecting "fixes" with income)... However, you are welcome to treat the symptoms or solve the underlying problem.

If external factors are forcing you to a decission like this, please consider telling us.

If you believe that the term "gamebreaking item" cannot be applied to your proposal - please consider telling us if future ... aids may possibly get implemented the same way.

thx

Economic Services

trading spacepixels
Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
#4820 - 2015-10-24 18:18:46 UTC
4,800 replies so far and only 30 likes on the first post. Does anymore really need to be said about the absurdity of this idea being presented?