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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Jared Khanar
#2761 - 2015-10-17 22:09:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jared Khanar
Teckos Pech wrote:

The bazaar is on their forums and they control the transfer process, they may have never explicitly said we support it, but given the years they've facilitated it, I think they support it.


You need to pay plex to transfer a character. It´s a bit strange to not support something on one hand, and get payed for it on the other. If they indeed do not support this, how nice they have been to implement a way to transfer payment to them, anyway. This has clearly been a selfless present for their community.


Two plexes for a change of the account id on a char - taking maybe 5 seconds time of someone / 1, 2 ms time for a script... i clearly have the wrong job XD

Economic Services

trading spacepixels
Interfly Ghormenheist
The Caravan Track
#2762 - 2015-10-17 22:09:23 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
it seems to me that EVE is loosing its core when SP can be bought without limits.


good job that's not the case, then.


CCP Stark you have info you'd like to share with us ??


yeah - it's all in the devblog so i'm not breaking the NDA i'm under by being a ccp employee (disclaimer before i get banned for impersonating people at ccp: i don't actually work there.)

the super secret info is that SP must be extracted from a character to be sold. that means there's a finite number of SP which means we have limit on how much SP can be bought.

you know, if you'd have read the devblog maybe i wouldn't have to explain these things to you people and i wouldn't have more posts in this thread than anyone else.

it helps to read a devblog BEFORE you come to the thread to discuss it.


Dave, please show us where my argument is contradicting the devblog. If you can. Big smile

Last time that “greed was good”, the information was leaked. In 2015 it was posted.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2763 - 2015-10-17 22:09:29 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
it seems to me that EVE is loosing its core when SP can be bought without limits.


good job that's not the case, then.


CCP Stark you have info you'd like to share with us ??


yeah - it's all in the devblog so i'm not breaking the NDA i'm under by being a ccp employee (disclaimer before i get banned for impersonating people at ccp: i don't actually work there.)

the super secret info is that SP must be extracted from a character to be sold. that means there's a finite number of SP which means we have limit on how much SP can be bought.

you know, if you'd have read the devblog maybe i wouldn't have to explain these things to you people and i wouldn't have more posts in this thread than anyone else.

it helps to read a devblog BEFORE you come to the thread to discuss it.


Oh, and one last note on the Bazaar, it won't go anywhere for now, just in case your a TL;DR

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dave Stark
#2764 - 2015-10-17 22:10:04 UTC
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
it seems to me that EVE is loosing its core when SP can be bought without limits.


good job that's not the case, then.


CCP Stark you have info you'd like to share with us ??


yeah - it's all in the devblog so i'm not breaking the NDA i'm under by being a ccp employee (disclaimer before i get banned for impersonating people at ccp: i don't actually work there.)

the super secret info is that SP must be extracted from a character to be sold. that means there's a finite number of SP which means we have limit on how much SP can be bought.

you know, if you'd have read the devblog maybe i wouldn't have to explain these things to you people and i wouldn't have more posts in this thread than anyone else.

it helps to read a devblog BEFORE you come to the thread to discuss it.


Dave, please show us where my argument is contradicting the devblog. If you can. Big smile


the bold bit.
Torrent Talon
Nightmare Inc.
#2765 - 2015-10-17 22:10:49 UTC
CCP,

If you need to fund your company with these shoddy tactics you really need to look at the root of the problem you're having, which is game design, have you not noticed since hiring fozzie and rise and other unmentioned devs that your game has been going downhill?

EvE was growing throughout its life until a few years ago when you decided to sway into the instant gratification gameplay of most MMO which EvE isn't designed for, if you want to see your game last, give us tools not gimmicks, expand the sandbox, don't squander it.

Listen to your playerbase, i know you think because you are literally the only game with this type of play style that people will just bend to your whims, if you continue they will, but enough people will quit playing to cause you serious problems.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#2766 - 2015-10-17 22:11:11 UTC
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
it seems to me that EVE is loosing its core when SP can be bought without limits.


good job that's not the case, then.


CCP Stark you have info you'd like to share with us ??


yeah - it's all in the devblog so i'm not breaking the NDA i'm under by being a ccp employee (disclaimer before i get banned for impersonating people at ccp: i don't actually work there.)

the super secret info is that SP must be extracted from a character to be sold. that means there's a finite number of SP which means we have limit on how much SP can be bought.

you know, if you'd have read the devblog maybe i wouldn't have to explain these things to you people and i wouldn't have more posts in this thread than anyone else.

it helps to read a devblog BEFORE you come to the thread to discuss it.


Dave, please show us where my argument is contradicting the devblog. If you can. Big smile


There will be limited amount on the market. This is about as close to a fact as we can get in this thread.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jasmine Heap
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2767 - 2015-10-17 22:12:11 UTC
Just reading about these proposed changes and I am very much against them. For many people, like myself, I kept a long subscription going, at my expense, in order to skill into certain ships. That time cost me both money in sub fees and heroic levels of PATIENCE.

Now you are essentially saying that anyone can take the sub fees it would normally take to skill into a ship and, instead of paying those fees and waiting it out, he/she can just buy the SP directly. That undermines every other player who both paid the sub fees and waited the real time to skill into the ships.

If you won't value my TIME as much as you value my MONEY, I won't value your game.

If you proceed with this monumentally bad idea, and I hope that you won't, please make sure none of these purchasable skill points can be allocated toward anything higher than LEVEL 4 of any skill. Everyone should suffer equally the indignity of having to wait the same amount of time to skill anything to LEVEL 5.
T1K1
Perkone
Caldari State
#2768 - 2015-10-17 22:13:34 UTC
Terraj Oknatis wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:


Credit Card -PLEX- ISK- New character.

Mr Epeen Cool


And this is largely how it will work with SP packets.



The Bazzar is not technically supported by CCP.

This is

This goes credit card- add skill points to current character




The bazaar is supported by CCP, if someone tries to scam you, they'll step in and handle the situation.

"Character trade scams are strictly forbidden and lead to immediate permanent bans when found." posted by CCP Falcon
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2769 - 2015-10-17 22:14:51 UTC
Jasmine Heap wrote:
If you won't value my TIME as much as you value my MONEY, I won't value your game.

"Value my time" by making me wait for months to get SP.

#justEVEthings.
Kayden Katelo
Doomheim
#2770 - 2015-10-17 22:14:57 UTC
CCP, if you really need the money, how about porting Dust to the PC?
Dave Stark
#2771 - 2015-10-17 22:15:01 UTC
Jasmine Heap wrote:
Just reading about these proposed changes and I am very much against them. For many people, like myself, I kept a long subscription going, at my expense, in order to skill into certain ships. That time cost me both money in sub fees and heroic levels of PATIENCE.

Now you are essentially saying that anyone can take the sub fees it would normally take to skill into a ship and, instead of paying those fees and waiting it out, he/she can just buy the SP directly. That undermines every other player who both paid the sub fees and waited the real time to skill into the ships.

If you won't value my TIME as much as you value my MONEY, I won't value your game.

If you proceed with this monumentally bad idea, and I hope that you won't, please make sure none of these purchasable skill points can be allocated toward anything higher than LEVEL 4 of any skill. Everyone should suffer equally the indignity of having to wait the same amount of time to skill anything to LEVEL 5.


then why didn't you quit when the characer bazaar opened?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#2772 - 2015-10-17 22:18:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Jasmine Heap wrote:
Just reading about these proposed changes and I am very much against them. For many people, like myself, I kept a long subscription going, at my expense, in order to skill into certain ships. That time cost me both money in sub fees and heroic levels of PATIENCE.



And it will cost money for a new player to get to the same level. In fact, depending on the amount of SP, quite a bit more RL money.

For example, based on your age I am going to conclude you have 37 million SP.

For a new character to "catch up" he will need to buy 65,250,000 worth SP, or 130 SP packets. SP packets will likely cost 300,000,000 at a minimum. Those 130 SP correspond to 39 billion ISK.*

A character with 37 million SP will likely cost you 18-20 billion in the character bazaar.

*Assuming I did the math right.

Oh and to translate that ISK into RL money $650. If you are paying monthly, you paid $360 and had to wait to train those skills over time.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mag's
Azn Empire
#2773 - 2015-10-17 22:21:18 UTC
BrundleMeth wrote:
I remember when they introduced the 24 hour skill queue. People went ballistic, calling it the end of EVE. Then, they went to an unlimited skill queue...and no one said anything. My point is...this new idea...whatever...
Another poster wishing to rewrite history. Please, do carry on.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Jared Khanar
#2774 - 2015-10-17 22:22:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jared Khanar
Teckos Pech wrote:

And it will cost money for a new player to get to the same level. In fact, depending on the amount of SP, quite a bit more RL money.


CCP shows a history of pushing more and more into cheap features that they want to get extra payment for. Ship skins made of simple textures a good artist does in minutes / maybe half an hour, multiple character training, many more things and now this...

Does this not concern you if you take a look into the future, following this path? If ccp gets away with this, what is going to happen next time? They tried this over and over in the past - sometimes they succeeded, sometimes the community won. But they try harder and harder, not giving up on this.

Economic Services

trading spacepixels
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#2775 - 2015-10-17 22:23:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Jared Khanar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

And it will cost money for a new player to get to the same level. In fact, depending on the amount of SP, quite a bit more RL money.


CCP shows a history of pushing more and more into cheap features that they want to get payed for. Ship skins made of simple textures a good artist does in minutes / maybe half an hour, multiple character training, many more things and now this...

Does this not concern you if you take a look into the future, following this path? If ccp gets away with this, what is going to happen next time? They tried this over and over in the past - sometimes they succeeded, sometimes the community won. But they try harder and harder.


I'm actually opposed to the idea, but many of these responses are largely based on ignorance.

Edit: Jasmine Heap's post is based on a flawed understanding of this proposal. Nobody is going to do much catching up, or the number will likely be trivial and can be, to a large extent, already accomplished via the character bazaar.

IF CCP is watching this thread, they will likely discount her views as they are flawed. Better to point to the real potential problems vs. ones that are just not really a problem to begin with.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Interfly Ghormenheist
The Caravan Track
#2776 - 2015-10-17 22:29:59 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:


the bold bit.


The only bold thing would be rhetoric instead of dialectic. I would like to read your argument.

Last time that “greed was good”, the information was leaked. In 2015 it was posted.
Dave Stark
#2777 - 2015-10-17 22:31:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


the bold bit.


The only bold thing would be rhetoric instead of dialectic. I would like to read your argument.


then do so, it's clearly stated here.
Terraj Oknatis
Project Sanctuary
#2778 - 2015-10-17 22:32:42 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Jared Khanar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

And it will cost money for a new player to get to the same level. In fact, depending on the amount of SP, quite a bit more RL money.


CCP shows a history of pushing more and more into cheap features that they want to get payed for. Ship skins made of simple textures a good artist does in minutes / maybe half an hour, multiple character training, many more things and now this...

Does this not concern you if you take a look into the future, following this path? If ccp gets away with this, what is going to happen next time? They tried this over and over in the past - sometimes they succeeded, sometimes the community won. But they try harder and harder.


I'm actually opposed to the idea, but many of these responses are largely based on ignorance.


Its going to get harder and harder to become blissfully ignorant.

I have tried really hard to ignore the bizzar. Since it is on the forums and out of the client I have been able to do this.

This is going to be hard to ignore.

This is not character trading this is adding skill points to your main.

Therefore now you will be looked down upon if you don't have X number of skill points when everyone else will have X number of skill points.

AFK farming of skill points will probably become a thing. I guarantee you it will be possible, and someone will figure out that you can have a bunch of alts training skill points, gut them, repackage their skill points into packs and sell those. And support all of this with plex bought with isk. I think this will actually add to the total skill points in the game. There is one exploit right there. CCP doesn't like bottling? Well you don't even need to be a bot you don't even need to play to win. Just sit on alts who are training skill points.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#2779 - 2015-10-17 22:33:04 UTC
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


the bold bit.


The only bold thing would be rhetoric instead of dialectic. I would like to read your argument.


He was referring the claim about infinite amounts of SP? That part is not going to happen. Not with this proposal.

Again, if you oppose this idea, like I do, make a sensible argument, not just a rage post.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jasmine Heap
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2780 - 2015-10-17 22:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jasmine Heap
I've always viewed the character bazaar as something that not many people were involved in. Perhaps I am wrong about that. I never used it myself. My fear with these changes is that it will mainstream and popularize the easy acquisition of SP. Look, perhaps my fears are unfounded, but I know how I *feel* about these changes. My gut says this is the wrong thing to do. I suppose there is a real structural problem with the "uncloseable gap" between players with hundreds of millions of SP and new players, but simply allowing that gap to be closed on existing toons with isk/aurum/plex/money just feels wrong