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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Kitagawa Mika
Perkone
Caldari State
#2401 - 2015-10-17 09:02:15 UTC
Really cool idea, would love to see this implemented sooner rather than later. This is a good way to help new players and to make eve a viable option for new players. As it stands now, someone coming in to EVE as a new player the skill system and required time must be really daunting. I understand that older players don't like change, but I see only upside... So I welcome this idea with open arms to insure the progress and success of EVE going forward.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2402 - 2015-10-17 09:04:53 UTC
BroodAlpha wrote:
Hello guys,

I'm going to go ahead and say I really dislike the premise of this change and with the diminishing returns it feels like CCP is doing this to make the lives of newbeans easier (which is cool), but this ostracizes the entire older player community. As a director of a newbean corp I would normally be in favor of a change like this but I am not.

I have been playing for a year and a half and I would not have the toons that I have right now, and the capital I earned from the Bazaar would be negligible if these proposed changes were live when I started.

1) SP on the Bazaar holds value because characters are uniquely trained. With these skillpoint sucker doo-hiccies no character is unique any more because people can just remap whatever.

2) The value of high SP characters drops through the floor due to the diminishing returns on the extractors.

3) It puts a monetary value on SP in certain ranges, meaning that players no longer decide the value of toons which was half the fun of the bazaar.

4) It removes the most stable market in the game, SP. SP was stable because you couldn't mess with it. With these proposed changes, you can.

To put this into terms for you guys I have made a lot of ISK from character sales on the Bazaar using this strategy:

1) Look for a relatively well trained toon that needs a bit of fixing up, but not too much.

2) Acquire toon for a good SP/ISK ratio (3m SP per Billion ISK)

3) Train holes in toon

4) Flip for profit

Is this possible with the new system? Not really, because rich toffs can just manipulate characters so they're perfect, meaning that unless you pump money into making sure that no SP is wasted, the value of toons drops through the floor.

One of my recent transactions netted me 15b ISK profit for doing 2 months training. This is because I put a bunch of time into learning the market, toon values and learning what skills EVE players put value in. There's also no scamming on the Bazaar so it's the safest place to invest your ISK.

I don't think anyone expected CCP to suggest messing with skill points... After this change, I will no longer be using the Bazaar.

BroodAlpha is trained almost perfectly outside of the Mining V and Gas Cloud Mining V. Do I want to be able to reallocate those SP? Sure it'd be cool, but it's NOT worth changing the entire system for and it devalues all my other toons. I task anyone to go to the Bazaar right now and find me a better trained 64m SP allround subcap toon.

tl;dr

Worst idea I've heard of since Jump Fatigue being applied to jump bridges (Remember the change was supposed to nerf capital projection, not the ability of sovholding alliances to move their subcap fleets around).

So you against this idea because it will change mechanic which makes you profit. Nothing strange here.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2403 - 2015-10-17 09:05:15 UTC
@Niko. Your quotes are in italics:

I can't imagine too many players wishing to trade in real time for ISK. Each and every active account that needs ISK more than SP... For example, I have 3 accounts of which only 1 really needs SP at the moment (dread alt).

I'm sure some will but I don't think the supply will meet the demand. Supply always meets demand, by definition. Lol

This will probably result in ridiculous prices, forcing new players to PLEX to afford this feature. A bold guess. We'll see the price. In any case, it's optional, just as trading PLEX for ISK.

As already mentioned, veterans, especially those with fat ISK or RL wallets will still be able to use this system effectively, even if they have to pay 10x what newbie does. Think again, 10x is a huge multiplier. Much easier to have several specialized sub-50M chars than wasting that much ISK on a 80M+ char.

Now that the system could be automated using game mechanics there is ZERO excuse for involving AUR or $$$ in this transaction. I'm with you on this. Still, it's optional and there are worse ways for CCP to make money. Also note that CCP profits from PLEX as well (+30% price compared to a sub).

While skill points are important, we all know that players skills are much more valuable. Instead of focusing on RMTing SP maybe we need to invest in better ways of making new players understand that. This is exactly why nobody will be 'forced' to buy SP.


Regarding the rest of your post, I agree CCP should first and foremost continue making a better game. The good part of SP-trading is that it makes SP worth less and more easily acquirable, which is really not so bad imho. I'm fine with more people in space flying proper doctrines.

Hopefully it will help a bit, give CCP more cash, and they'll use all this to make a better game.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2404 - 2015-10-17 09:10:41 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Until someone counters them with some reasonable explanation I will stand by the fact that this is easily the worst decision ever since it will change fundamentals of the game for unknown expectations without helping more than minor percent of the players.


this is one for when you get back then, Don.

let's start at the beginning.

What fundamentals are being changed?

buying/selling SP? no. we're already doing that with the character bazaar.
bypassing the skill training system? no. we're already doing that with the charcter bazaar.
"now we can get characters with 400m sp" - so what problem does that cause?


Anything to do with the character Bazaar is nothing like the buying and selling of pure skill points, You look whats being sold and find a toon that best suites your needs. Your taking control of someones ingame legacy and shaping it to what you want , their snapshot of time. That is a vast difference than being able to inject millions of skillpoints into creating a zero day perfect toon.

If there intention here is to purely create a new source of revenue for the game without bastardizing its core concept and longevity whilst benefiting a new player experience then the only way would be to give the new player / new character creation process the ability to create a character with say :

standard 400,000 sp free
Bronze 10,000,000 sp $XXX
Silver 20,000,00 sp $XXX
Gold 30,000,00 sp $XXX

This way it only applies to a new character, its not sticking two fingers up at the people who supported it from day 1 and it gives a cap on how many points can be gained without destroying anything already in game like plex / aur / isk

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Laodell
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#2405 - 2015-10-17 09:12:08 UTC
darkchild's corpse wrote:
thats exactly like this other guy...
"why is it a bad idea?"
"it was already explained, read it"
"no, i'm too lazy, your point is invalid"

yeah... thats exactly how it works... *facepalm*



These are the American Millennials. I apologize on behalf of the parents of America for releasing these creatures upon us.

Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#2406 - 2015-10-17 09:19:03 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Niko Lorenzio wrote:


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6100830#post6100830


so you think the numbers are way off, and object to it being a paid service because it's all automated.

then what numbers should be used?


It wouldn't be as terrible if they hard cap it at say 5-10mil SP but then again it's simply not worth the bother and dev time. A player that quits EVE because he has to wait a couple of weeks to fly a certain ship will not be saved by this change. Those kind of players will simply not work out in EVE. Meanwhile there are a million things that need to be addressed (NPE included).

Bottom line is, this wont help new players, this wont help old players, this will simply continue to slowly kill the game for the reasons I mentioned in the above post.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2407 - 2015-10-17 09:21:32 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Kitagawa Mika wrote:
Really cool idea, would love to see this implemented sooner rather than later. This is a good way to help new players and to make eve a viable option for new players. As it stands now, someone coming in to EVE as a new player the skill system and required time must be really daunting. I understand that older players don't like change, but I see only upside... So I welcome this idea with open arms to insure the progress and success of EVE going forward.

The only reason why I'm not playing at the moment is waiting while my skill traning for new activity but if I had chance to inject SP by isk investments I rather go playing and earning some isk to afford Skill Packet instead of sitting here and doing nothing. So yeah I completely agree.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Mag's
Azn Empire
#2408 - 2015-10-17 09:23:34 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Until someone counters them with some reasonable explanation I will stand by the fact that this is easily the worst decision ever since it will change fundamentals of the game for unknown expectations without helping more than minor percent of the players.


this is one for when you get back then, Don.

let's start at the beginning.

What fundamentals are being changed?

buying/selling SP? no. we're already doing that with the character bazaar.
bypassing the skill training system? no. we're already doing that with the charcter bazaar.
"now we can get characters with 400m sp" - so what problem does that cause?
Dave I'm rather amazed at your posting on this regard. You are quite a level headed chap and clued on in many respects.
But I feel you're dismissing facts and inventing your own to fit your stance, in this instance.

We do not buy SP, we buy characters with all the baggage associated with them. This is why many of us are OK with the bazaar.
It does not bypass the training system, as those characters had to be trained over time with the normal mechanics. The speed at which they gain that SP has a ceiling.

The fundamental difference is now we will be able to buy raw SP and inject directly. How you cannot see the difference, is rather puzzling to me.
Buying raw SP is bypassing the training system for characters being injected. If I train for the first year 2 characters, then move the SP from one to the other, that's almost doubling the speed of one character. Not possible right now, so a fundamental change.

As far as 400m characters is concerned. I personally don't think this game will benefit in the long run, from the 'I want it now' crowd. If you don't see an issue with that, OK fine. But I do. For instance, FOTM is a thing and will not improve with this change.

I'm not going to argue the point with you, I've had enough of the topic. I dislike the idea and the blog just seems off to me somehow. I'm not sure why and maybe it was my initial thoughts when I first read it, that still lingers. It is an emotional topic for sure.

You ask what is wrong with it, I ask what does it fix. So far, not one person has answered that. As the onus is upon the ones wanting change, I will wait to see if anyone can justify it. I'm personally don't enjoy seeing a change like this, seemingly on a whim.

Dev: Oh let's do up the bazaar.
other Dev: Tell you what, let's sell SP.

It's such a mad escalation and tangent from the first thought. It just doesn't sit well with many of us.

Anyway that's me done. I still like ya Dave, I just don't agree with your stance.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Dave Stark
#2409 - 2015-10-17 09:24:32 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Anything to do with the character Bazaar is nothing like the buying and selling of pure skill points, You look whats being sold and find a toon that best suites your needs. Your taking control of someones ingame legacy and shaping it to what you want , their snapshot of time. That is a vast difference than being able to inject millions of skillpoints into creating a zero day perfect toon.

If there intention here is to purely create a new source of revenue for the game without bastardizing its core concept and longevity whilst benefiting a new player experience then the only way would be to give the new player / new character creation process the ability to create a character with say :

standard 400,000 sp free
Bronze 10,000,000 sp $XXX
Silver 20,000,00 sp $XXX
Gold 30,000,00 sp $XXX

This way it only applies to a new character, its not sticking two fingers up at the people who supported it from day 1 and it gives a cap on how many points can be gained without destroying anything already in game like plex / aur / isk


creating a perfect toon by injecting SP vs buying one that has been optimally trained has one difference; the date of birth.

buying a "legacy" is pretty much irrelevant. "but it's a corp theif" so you link the sale thread and oh - look at that, now nobody cares it was a corp theif because the legacy is irrelevant because it wasn't you. corp history, again, anything predating the sale nobody will care about. alternatively - don't buy one with a ****** history. there's more than one character on the market.

i still don't quite understand the "sticking two fingers up at people who supported the game from day 1" argument, you'll have to explain that one to me. congratulations you made a character before me.... and what?
BroodAlpha
Perkone
Caldari State
#2410 - 2015-10-17 09:27:17 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
BroodAlpha wrote:
Hello guys,

I'm going to go ahead and say I really dislike the premise of this change and with the diminishing returns it feels like CCP is doing this to make the lives of newbeans easier (which is cool), but this ostracizes the entire older player community. As a director of a newbean corp I would normally be in favor of a change like this but I am not.

I have been playing for a year and a half and I would not have the toons that I have right now, and the capital I earned from the Bazaar would be negligible if these proposed changes were live when I started.

1) SP on the Bazaar holds value because characters are uniquely trained. With these skillpoint sucker doo-hiccies no character is unique any more because people can just remap whatever.

2) The value of high SP characters drops through the floor due to the diminishing returns on the extractors.

3) It puts a monetary value on SP in certain ranges, meaning that players no longer decide the value of toons which was half the fun of the bazaar.

4) It removes the most stable market in the game, SP. SP was stable because you couldn't mess with it. With these proposed changes, you can.

To put this into terms for you guys I have made a lot of ISK from character sales on the Bazaar using this strategy:

1) Look for a relatively well trained toon that needs a bit of fixing up, but not too much.

2) Acquire toon for a good SP/ISK ratio (3m SP per Billion ISK)

3) Train holes in toon

4) Flip for profit

Is this possible with the new system? Not really, because rich toffs can just manipulate characters so they're perfect, meaning that unless you pump money into making sure that no SP is wasted, the value of toons drops through the floor.

One of my recent transactions netted me 15b ISK profit for doing 2 months training. This is because I put a bunch of time into learning the market, toon values and learning what skills EVE players put value in. There's also no scamming on the Bazaar so it's the safest place to invest your ISK.

I don't think anyone expected CCP to suggest messing with skill points... After this change, I will no longer be using the Bazaar.

BroodAlpha is trained almost perfectly outside of the Mining V and Gas Cloud Mining V. Do I want to be able to reallocate those SP? Sure it'd be cool, but it's NOT worth changing the entire system for and it devalues all my other toons. I task anyone to go to the Bazaar right now and find me a better trained 64m SP allround subcap toon.

tl;dr

Worst idea I've heard of since Jump Fatigue being applied to jump bridges (Remember the change was supposed to nerf capital projection, not the ability of sovholding alliances to move their subcap fleets around).

So you against this idea because it will change mechanic which makes you profit. Nothing strange here.


A swing and a miss. I'm against the change because it removes key functionality in the game that EVERYONE is taking advantage of and makes the game interesting.

I'm also against it because remapping high SP characters (which a LOT of players have) is not effective and devalues them.

I'm a new player, I'm sure there are even more reasons why older players would dislike this change.
Dave Stark
#2411 - 2015-10-17 09:35:40 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Dave I'm rather amazed at your posting on this regard. You are quite a level headed chap and clued on in many respects.
But I feel you're dismissing facts and inventing your own to fit your stance, in this instance.

We do not buy SP, we buy characters with all the baggage associated with them. This is why many of us are OK with the bazaar.
It does not bypass the training system, as those characters had to be trained over time with the normal mechanics. The speed at which they gain that SP has a ceiling.

The fundamental difference is now we will be able to buy raw SP and inject directly. How you cannot see the difference, is rather puzzling to me.
Buying raw SP is bypassing the training system for characters being injected. If I train for the first year 2 characters, then move the SP from one to the other, that's almost doubling the speed of one character. Not possible right now, so a fundamental change.

As far as 400m characters is concerned. I personally don't think this game will benefit in the long run, from the 'I want it now' crowd. If you don't see an issue with that, OK fine. But I do. For instance, FOTM is a thing and will not improve with this change.

I'm not going to argue the point with you, I've had enough of the topic. I dislike the idea and the blog just seems off to me somehow. I'm not sure why and maybe it was my initial thoughts when I first read it, that still lingers. It is an emotional topic for sure.

You ask what is wrong with it, I ask what does it fix. So far, not one person has answered that. As the onus is upon the ones wanting change, I will wait to see if anyone can justify it. I'm personally don't enjoy seeing a change like this, seemingly on a whim.

Dev: Oh let's do up the bazaar.
other Dev: Tell you what, let's sell SP.

It's such a mad escalation and tangent from the first thought. It just doesn't sit well with many of us.

Anyway that's me done. I still like ya Dave, I just don't agree with your stance.


Hey mags, sup?

this SP ceiling, tippia mentioned that - yet when i pressed it NOBODY could come up with an answer of why if a 400m sp character sprung up tomorrow that would be an issue. could you answer that for me?
the SP bazaar exactly bypasses the skill training system. "i want a character that can do X", i don't want to wait for it to train, i'll buy one - boom system bypassed.

i can see the difference, it's obvious - however the outcome remains the same so the difference in method is irrelevant. like cylcing and walking to work - you get to work job done. you start with a character with one skill set, you end with a character with a different set of skills. both systems produce the same end result.

FOTM is laughable - i've not been playing that long relative to how old eve is, and i could quite easily jump on to the fotm doctrine on this character tomorrow. if i couldn't - i'd just buy one that can. fotm bandwaggoning isn't a new thing.

what does it fix? the devblog answers that - the convoluted and awkward way the character bazaar works is what it fixes. whether it needs fixing is another matter, but that's what it fixes.

is it really that mad of an escalation though? really? how is syphoning SP from one character to inject it in to another character really any different from just training another character perfectly?
time? is that it? is it the fact that it's instant? would this be better as a booster, or with a cooldown, is the instant and unlimited nature the issue then?

i'm only posting so much because i genuinely want to know what issues would cause such a negative reaction but all i keep seeing is "i don't like it" with nothing of substance to it.

it's fine to not like it, but just because you don't like something doesn't make it bad. i want to know what makes this idea bad.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#2412 - 2015-10-17 09:46:31 UTC
I don't mean this as a personal attack on CCP Rise as he is a great Dev and probably the best when it comes to ship balancing and combat related stuff. But... when it comes to things like this I just don't feel like Rise and his team "get it".

After Greyscale left and a lot of the senior devs retired I feel like the core concept of eve is slowly fading out the minds of the people developing it. Thank god for Seagull at the top there and a couple of others who clearly get it, but if seagull were to leave for whatever reason I really don't have that much faith in eve being able to survive.

You may say it is unfair to pick on a single dev when the whole team is responsible, but the truth is these devs are the lead devs, and so the others follow them. This should have been a case where some bright spark came up with this absolute car crash of an idea and Rise shot it down before even wasting any more time on it.

Don't get me wrong CCP Rise is great when it comes to his specialist area, but when he has ventured into stuff like this and also into the new player related stuff I feel things have been taking backward step (also I still can't forgive him for releasing mordus upon us, but all the other good ship balancing work makes up for that).

Personally I think Seagull really need to imprint on the minds of the devs and also the playerbase what it means to play eve and the core concepts. This idea has taken us all by surprise to some degree and a mistake like this should not have even reached the drawing board.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2413 - 2015-10-17 09:49:21 UTC
Mag's wrote:
You ask what is wrong with it, I ask what does it fix. So far, not one person has answered that. As the onus is upon the ones wanting change, I will wait to see if anyone can justify it. I'm personally don't enjoy seeing a change like this, seemingly on a whim.
I was initially opposed, now I'm open and curious. Here's my take.

After 12 years, there's an SP imbalance in the game. Some chars have more than they need (me on my alts, for example, even though I'm just playing since 2 years), newbros have less than they need (to play with the big boys).


You may or may not think that players absolutely MUST (forever, until the servers go dark) wait an year (or whatever it takes) to fly, say, a well (not even perfectly) trained T3 cruiser. Personally, I don't care much. If you do, you'll hate this change, period. Blink


But if you think training faster is not a big issue, or can even be a good thing, then CCP is simply proposing to apply the PLEX system to SP:

you will be able to trade SP by paying CCP some extra cash, just as you can trade game time by paying CCP some extra cash (PLEX costs more than a sub)

Hence SP (like ISK or gametime) is not created out of thin air, the players can trade it among themselves like PLEX.


The main SP flow I'm thinking of is people with extra ISK or $ giving ISK for SP to people that don't need to train all their alts at full speed. Sounds not so bad, after all...

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Gassner
Katholische Pfruendepachtstelle
#2414 - 2015-10-17 09:51:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Gassner
Dave Stark wrote:

...
it's fine to not like it, but just because you don't like something doesn't make it bad. i want to know what makes this idea bad.


It would completely flatten the barriers to buy oneself into the game compared to Character Bazaar trading, which is already PTW but that is sort-of OK because of the already mentioned inconveniences.
Total time trained in game would not change, but because of the age of the game the market would get flooded with SP, as everyone would cash in some alt SPs the moment this bold idea goes live.

They could as well just sell the SPs from npc market orders or for aurum.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2415 - 2015-10-17 09:55:45 UTC
Gassner wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

...
it's fine to not like it, but just because you don't like something doesn't make it bad. i want to know what makes this idea bad.


It would completely flatten the barriers to buy oneself into the game compared to Character Bazaar trading, which is already PTW but that is sort-of OK because of the already mentioned inconveniences.
Total time trained in game would not change, but because of the age of the game the market would get flooded with SP, as everyone would cash in his alt SPs the moment this bold idea goes live.


Note that people that cash in their alt's SPs would get to play for free...

Why is this bad? When you roam looking for a decent-value (T2 cruisers and above) fleet to shoot at, would you prefer more targets or less? Do you even ever think about how 'EVE-old' are the guys you're fighting?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2416 - 2015-10-17 09:57:55 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
BroodAlpha wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
BroodAlpha wrote:
Hello guys,

I'm going to go ahead and say I really dislike the premise of this change and with the diminishing returns it feels like CCP is doing this to make the lives of newbeans easier (which is cool), but this ostracizes the entire older player community. As a director of a newbean corp I would normally be in favor of a change like this but I am not.

I have been playing for a year and a half and I would not have the toons that I have right now, and the capital I earned from the Bazaar would be negligible if these proposed changes were live when I started.

1) SP on the Bazaar holds value because characters are uniquely trained. With these skillpoint sucker doo-hiccies no character is unique any more because people can just remap whatever.

2) The value of high SP characters drops through the floor due to the diminishing returns on the extractors.

3) It puts a monetary value on SP in certain ranges, meaning that players no longer decide the value of toons which was half the fun of the bazaar.

4) It removes the most stable market in the game, SP. SP was stable because you couldn't mess with it. With these proposed changes, you can.

To put this into terms for you guys I have made a lot of ISK from character sales on the Bazaar using this strategy:

1) Look for a relatively well trained toon that needs a bit of fixing up, but not too much.

2) Acquire toon for a good SP/ISK ratio (3m SP per Billion ISK)

3) Train holes in toon

4) Flip for profit

Is this possible with the new system? Not really, because rich toffs can just manipulate characters so they're perfect, meaning that unless you pump money into making sure that no SP is wasted, the value of toons drops through the floor.

One of my recent transactions netted me 15b ISK profit for doing 2 months training. This is because I put a bunch of time into learning the market, toon values and learning what skills EVE players put value in. There's also no scamming on the Bazaar so it's the safest place to invest your ISK.

I don't think anyone expected CCP to suggest messing with skill points... After this change, I will no longer be using the Bazaar.

BroodAlpha is trained almost perfectly outside of the Mining V and Gas Cloud Mining V. Do I want to be able to reallocate those SP? Sure it'd be cool, but it's NOT worth changing the entire system for and it devalues all my other toons. I task anyone to go to the Bazaar right now and find me a better trained 64m SP allround subcap toon.

tl;dr

Worst idea I've heard of since Jump Fatigue being applied to jump bridges (Remember the change was supposed to nerf capital projection, not the ability of sovholding alliances to move their subcap fleets around).

So you against this idea because it will change mechanic which makes you profit. Nothing strange here.


A swing and a miss. I'm against the change because it removes key functionality in the game that EVERYONE is taking advantage of and makes the game interesting.

I'm also against it because remapping high SP characters (which a LOT of players have) is not effective and devalues them.

I'm a new player, I'm sure there are even more reasons why older players would dislike this change.

I assume that the key reason to like or dislike something is personall one in most cases. In your case it is unnesasry adaptation to the new system because old one already makes you isks and this change could hurt to your business model.

Waiting while your skill tranning is not interesting thing at all.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2417 - 2015-10-17 09:58:37 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Anything to do with the character Bazaar is nothing like the buying and selling of pure skill points, You look whats being sold and find a toon that best suites your needs. Your taking control of someones ingame legacy and shaping it to what you want , their snapshot of time. That is a vast difference than being able to inject millions of skillpoints into creating a zero day perfect toon.

If there intention here is to purely create a new source of revenue for the game without bastardizing its core concept and longevity whilst benefiting a new player experience then the only way would be to give the new player / new character creation process the ability to create a character with say :

standard 400,000 sp free
Bronze 10,000,000 sp $XXX
Silver 20,000,00 sp $XXX
Gold 30,000,00 sp $XXX

This way it only applies to a new character, its not sticking two fingers up at the people who supported it from day 1 and it gives a cap on how many points can be gained without destroying anything already in game like plex / aur / isk


creating a perfect toon by injecting SP vs buying one that has been optimally trained has one difference; the date of birth.

buying a "legacy" is pretty much irrelevant. "but it's a corp theif" so you link the sale thread and oh - look at that, now nobody cares it was a corp theif because the legacy is irrelevant because it wasn't you. corp history, again, anything predating the sale nobody will care about. alternatively - don't buy one with a ****** history. there's more than one character on the market.

i still don't quite understand the "sticking two fingers up at people who supported the game from day 1" argument, you'll have to explain that one to me. congratulations you made a character before me.... and what?


The sticking two fingers up part refers to : 80 million skillpoints = 50,000 unallocated skillpoints added /// So ive played the game for 9 years had upto 3/4 accounts running so someone comes along maybe stays for a month or 2 but gets 500,000 for the same $£$ and i get shafted ...... Thats not unfair ???

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2418 - 2015-10-17 10:06:30 UTC
Gassner wrote:
They could as well just sell the SPs from npc market orders or for aurum.
Why do you think a system that creates SP out of thin air would be better than the proposed one, that gives SP to player A only if there is a player B willing to give his SP for ISK and, potentially, game time?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Dave Stark
#2419 - 2015-10-17 10:06:51 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
The sticking two fingers up part refers to : 80 million skillpoints = 50,000 unallocated skillpoints added /// So ive played the game for 9 years had upto 3/4 accounts running so someone comes along maybe stays for a month or 2 but gets 500,000 for the same $£$ and i get shafted ...... Thats not unfair ???


at 80m SP he gets the same 50k from a packet too.

that restriction is on the character's SP not the age of the account.

if you create a new character on the account you'd get the same 500,000 sp.
159Pinky
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2420 - 2015-10-17 10:07:18 UTC
Kitagawa Mika wrote:
Really cool idea, would love to see this implemented sooner rather than later. This is a good way to help new players and to make eve a viable option for new players. As it stands now, someone coming in to EVE as a new player the skill system and required time must be really daunting. I understand that older players don't like change, but I see only upside... So I welcome this idea with open arms to insure the progress and success of EVE going forward.


So, where will new players get the isk to buy this? Not by playing cause it'll be expensive. So they'll have to buy plex with real money. If you feel like this "pay to play" is good, then yeah: this is good for new players.