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I'm trying to get the arguments to be easier to read then having to deal with individual people replying to each other with posts inbetween that argue something which has been discarded earlier on.

As to, why you would want to hoard unallocated SP: imagine a new set of skills coming with an expansion. If you have or can buy unallocated SP, you can start right away doing something which others can't. That's usually profitable when I look at past expansions.

I know that SP allocation as proposed isn't free and I see the advantage of diminishing returns. Personally I tend to like the idea proposed by some players to llimit reallocation of SP to the same character while maintaining the character bazaar. At the same time I think that you should not be able to respec completely within minutes -> see my specialisation argument I made a few posts above. The one where I talk about me being valuable as a logistic pilot because not everyone can just jump into logistic cruiser just like that.

The question is what is the cost of SP reallocation going to be ?
- if it's going to be a pure financial cost aka my wallet, EvE's going to become P2W
- if it's going to have a time component aswell (as the current skill system does), that could be a balancing factor.

Currently there are few balancing factors specified in the original blog. One of them is that you have to take the SP from an existing trained character, keeping in check overabundance (but also possibly leading to scarcity and exploding costs).

Another balancing factor is deminishing returns for higher SP characters. That's good, but the cited danger of the rich sucking up SP and leaving newbros with an even steeper cliff to compete with their peers seems real enough to me.

What I'm saying is: Let's keep discussing this and finding a viable solution. I'm not dismissing the proposal outright as some do. But a system implemented 1:1 as proposed by Team Size Matters ... nah.

What "wait to pvp"? It's pilot skills, remember?

Just needed to point out a small correction to the discussion here.

SP sales and Character trading are not identical.
When you sell a character you are buying time. This time might be fully utilized the way you want it to be or it might not.. The fact remains that to get a 200m SP char from the bazzar you have to have a char which was painstakingly trained to 200m.

With SP sales you have direct injection of something now rather than later.. In essence a removal of time.

TLDR: Bazzar = Buying someone elses time. SP Trading = Autisticly removing the need for time.

Regardless of your position on this subject the above is immutable. Removing training time will have a profound effect on eve online as it has never been done before. History will tell if its the right one. I personally only dislike the system because it will be abused for RMT but beyond that I see Rises point and I can see the clear desire for CCP to moniterize the game more.

Hey Sibs!

In a nutshell, I'd say the skill system is about releasing content to the individual player over time, giving a reason to remain subscribed, including a sense of progression and character development.

The usual stuff.

I'm not against changes in the skill system, but I'm strongly against this change because it involves Aurum. It's not a new feature available to all (already paying) players, it's exclusive to those who dish out the cash to CCP. Don't like that at all.

But the 500k SP points are still trained normally on the character that wants to sell them. The SP does not magically appear out of nowhere. They have already been trained, just like on the characters sold on the bazzar.

Some stray observations.

CCP said: We're getting rid of learning skills.
The rabble said: You just killed EVE! We're all going to quit!

The game didn't die and the rabble didn't quit.

CCP said: We're going to add a skill queue
The rabble said: You just killed EVE! We're all going to quit!

The game didn't die and the rabble didn't quit.

CCP said: We're going to add a stat respec once a year.
The rabble said: You just killed the game. We're all quitting.

The game didn't die. The rabble are still here.

CCP said: We are going to add multiple character training.
The rabble said: You just killed EVE! We're all going to quit!

The game didn't die and the rabble didn't quit.

CCP said: We're going to make it a little easier on newbs by giving them a few SP to play with at start-up.
The rabble said: You just killed EVE! We're all going to quit!

EVE is still here and so is the rabble.

CCP said: Were going to make SP trading a little less convoluted.
The rabble are saying: You just killed EVE! We're all going to quit!

I predict that the game won't die and the rabble is going nowhere. And thank God for that. I do so look forward to threads like this.

Carry on, rabble. Carry on.

~ed~ Adding more as I think of them.

Mr Epeen

The first time in my entire eve career I feel "eve is dying" is not a joke anymore.

Yes, the knee-jerk reactions are rendering the signal-to-noise ratio to almost zero.

You prove my point; this is exactly why I didn't bother to waste my time writing out a comprehensive reply to you. If you read the entire reply then perhaps you would have a chance at seeing what people are trying to tell you, but it seems as though you are unable or don't want to hear it.

This right here is the exact thing I'm thinking: choices have consequences. It's been in the game from Day 1 (I think, I'm not that old) and it wasn't limited to "in space decisions". If you want to get to the nitty gritty of that phrase Sibyyleverything in EVE Online is in space.

Are you going to tell me that the guy that trades in station\is docked doesn't make choices which have consequences because he's "not in space"? No, so there you go. That's that covered.

Dammit, I chose to amend again and now can't post for 27 seconds. Give me immediate posting ability for cash