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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Author
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#441 - 2015-10-15 18:01:25 UTC
So, if CCP instigates this, will Character Trading be removed? This is supposed to be the replacement for the Character Bazaar right? So why would we need Character Trading anymore? Otherwise, this will lead to a great new form of Character trading where we can easily build specced toons for a specific function, and then sell them. Depending on the final costs, which will probably be rather high, I think we can look at toons selling for a bit more.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#442 - 2015-10-15 18:01:37 UTC
Madgic wrote:
Querns wrote:
Madgic wrote:
When did Eve become Facebook?

Payers don't have to play the game to earn isk, and soon they wont even have to log on to max out their skills.

No No No NO Worst Idea ever please Don't candy Crush my game.

Ah, yes, the onerous burden of logging in.

I have a 300 day skill queue and I can donate PLEX to my account to keep it alive from without. Clearly, the fact that I need to log in to manage it about twice a year is what made my SP have meaning.



Surely you are exactly what is causing the downturn in player base then, Why even sub, if your not going to play?,

It was just a hypothetical example. In truth, while I do have a 300 day skill queue, I log in fairly regularly. I even got a few kills recently during the Cloud Ring campaign.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Carper
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#443 - 2015-10-15 18:01:45 UTC
For me, the idea of something like this was always going to be (at least a part of) the future of what EVE needed to become in order to survive & remain relevant.

However, to say you have to tread carefully in these waters could be the understatement of the century, there is little else in EVE more sacred to people than their SP.

But, done conservatively, & being heavily pre-nerfed - could help to introduce something as incendiary as this in a manner that would be acceptable to most people.


My particular version of this idea would be something like the following:

1. Upon pod-kill of any pod, piloting any kind of ship, a *tiny* amount of (related ship) SP would be lost. (Yes, SP loss on pod kill, maybe as little as a few hours of training).

2. The pod would leave a wreck which could be salvaged and this fragment of SP could be recovered and sold on the market for ISK.

3. Any character could then buy this (previously trained) SP on the market - for ISK - with one crucial restriction, only a small set amount of SP could be applied to a single character over a certain period of time.


(Optional):

4. The 'market purchasing player character SP amount restriction' should not apply in instances where the player character has the killing blow on the pod kill-mail.

However, it would be crucial that such a (no. 4) change would need to be done as not to be exploitable, with bans being handed down to those who mass farm alt's & the like for SP.
Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
#444 - 2015-10-15 18:01:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Iosue
Duffyman wrote:
Hi,

not meaning to take sides, but what is the difference between this and the Character Bazaar, in terms of P2W?

edit: just saw PotatoOverdose's post and he makes good points. Still I think it's pretty much the same thing...


in the char bazaar you have to purchase another character altogether. that means spending the time to find the right one, competing with other that may want the same one, accepting some knowing you'll have to do more work on them, living with a potentially stupid name or bad past, using up a character slot on an active account.

this proposal allows you to add unallocated SP onto an existing account, bypassing all of the potentially negatives mentioned above. you get your SP to use how you want, with the only downside being that you may have to spend a little more isk to get the same amount of SP as someone with less overall SP.

as it stands right now, you can buy SP in the form of another char, but it will not be a char of your own creation. in order to do this, you have to put time into the game, i.e. sub an account and wait. the proposed is along the line of the Burger King model; your way, right away.

whether its a good thing is for you to decide.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#445 - 2015-10-15 18:01:48 UTC
I've already gone over why this is a bad idea multiple times.

If this is the way we're going, then so be it, I guess.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#446 - 2015-10-15 18:02:01 UTC
Also here's another thing this will help address:

When you're joining the game you can only fly the very bottom ships. Frigates. Now your character immediately begins training, and you ask people for advice, "what do I do?"
They respond back with something like, pick a ship y ou want to fly and train for it! Go download EvE mon and plot your skill training queue so you can hop into that Widow you say you want to fly in!.

OK kind sir, thank you very much for pointing me in the right direction. I will tailor my skill queue so I may get into that widow!.

6 months goes by and now I can get into this widow.

But you know what? This ship sucks. I don't want to be in the widow. I can't believe I just spent all this time training to get into a widow and now that I'm here, it's not even enjoyable for me.

This will alleviate that dilemma.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#447 - 2015-10-15 18:02:50 UTC
Skilo wrote:
I've been playing this game since 2003


Hey i can stop playing for 1 year and if i decide to return get the euros i saved and buy all the skill points i've "lost"


I wish I could warn you not to give them ideas like that.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#448 - 2015-10-15 18:02:56 UTC
May Arethusa wrote:
While an interesting attempt at a compromise, it's still a terrible idea.

Skillpoint farming is quite literally, the most risk-free form of isk generation you could suggest, and wouldn't be that difficult. As has been pointed out already, you're looking at an 8-day cycle per character. There is absolutely no way anyone can interfere with this process either, perhaps if skill loss were still a thing this might gain a little more traction.

That's ignoring the obvious "X is nerfed, liquidate and remap to Y" process most low-SP PVP characters will go through. There's no longer any desire to push a character beyond a specific point under this system. You simply liquidate superfluous SP for profit, remap each time your FotM is nerfed, and spend a day or two at most training back the lost SP.

Nice try, but no thanks.

You can already do this. I've been doing this for years by selling in-demand characters on the Character Bazaar, trained specifically for the purpose of sale. Bastard farms are not particularly new.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Alladir
Alladarium
#449 - 2015-10-15 18:03:36 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
So, if CCP instigates this, will Character Trading be removed? This is supposed to be the replacement for the Character Bazaar right? So why would we need Character Trading anymore? Otherwise, this will lead to a great new form of Character trading where we can easily build specced toons for a specific function, and then sell them. Depending on the final costs, which will probably be rather high, I think we can look at toons selling for a bit more.


Someone on reddit ran approx math that buying char is twice as cheap when it comes to isk/sp cost compared to new system so no, they will not replace market.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#450 - 2015-10-15 18:03:51 UTC
Skilo wrote:
I've been playing this game since 2003

I'm a proud "owner" of a multi million skill point char who took me 12 years to get

To imagine someone can now just join eve and buy it of with real money will make me unsub all my accounts

I've been with CCP for the good times and the bad times but for this i will not!!!!

Hey i can stop playing for 1 year and if i decide to return get the euros i saved and buy all the skill points i've "lost"

IF i decide to return ofc

Want to take the risk CCP?

I'm sure i'm not the only one thinking the same way


Why will it make you want to unsub?
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#451 - 2015-10-15 18:03:55 UTC
Captain Africa wrote:
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
Skinzee wrote:
Skinzee wrote:
I have a question for ALL people that say this is a bad idea...


--- WHAT EFFECT WOULD IT HAVE ON YOU AS A PILOT IF THIS WOULD ACTUALLY GO LIVE? ---


There is already an option to buy 0-200m SP characters... Character Bazaar - (Thats Pay2Win if you look at it that way)



Would love someone to actually give me a valid answer to this question.

As far as I can see, there is none.



I do... Bitter vets would have more people around them that could fly high end doctrines like they do. Just by roaming off their own SP.



Lemme throw this right back at you ...I had to wait 6 years to get my character trained up to be 145 mil sp do you think it fair that you would be able to achieve that by just buying sp and whalla ?

Given that the achievement's barrier to entry is merely time and the payment of a monthly subscription, yes, I think it's totally fair. Your accomplishment is fairly meaningless; anyone can do it if they just wait.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Anise Tig'res
Doomheim
#452 - 2015-10-15 18:03:55 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Also here's another thing this will help address:

When you're joining the game you can only fly the very bottom ships. Frigates. Now your character immediately begins training, and you ask people for advice, "what do I do?"
They respond back with something like, pick a ship y ou want to fly and train for it! Go download EvE mon and plot your skill training queue so you can hop into that Widow you say you want to fly in!.

OK kind sir, thank you very much for pointing me in the right direction. I will tailor my skill queue so I may get into that widow!.

6 months goes by and now I can get into this widow.

But you know what? This ship sucks. I don't want to be in the widow. I can't believe I just spent all this time training to get into a widow and now that I'm here, it's not even enjoyable for me.

This will alleviate that dilemma.


And it'll do so for what probably ends up a similar price to a subscription.

Good job CCP!
Zajia Arkaral
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#453 - 2015-10-15 18:04:17 UTC
I dont want to see this ingame, stop fuckin your old community.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#454 - 2015-10-15 18:04:42 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
So, if CCP instigates this, will Character Trading be removed? This is supposed to be the replacement for the Character Bazaar right? So why would we need Character Trading anymore? Otherwise, this will lead to a great new form of Character trading where we can easily build specced toons for a specific function, and then sell them. Depending on the final costs, which will probably be rather high, I think we can look at toons selling for a bit more.

The dev blog says, at the bottom, that the Character Bazaar will remain.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Kilian Katar
Unknown Enterprises
#455 - 2015-10-15 18:05:17 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Also here's another thing this will help address:

When you're joining the game you can only fly the very bottom ships. Frigates. Now your character immediately begins training, and you ask people for advice, "what do I do?"
They respond back with something like, pick a ship y ou want to fly and train for it! Go download EvE mon and plot your skill training queue so you can hop into that Widow you say you want to fly in!.

OK kind sir, thank you very much for pointing me in the right direction. I will tailor my skill queue so I may get into that widow!.

6 months goes by and now I can get into this widow.

But you know what? This ship sucks. I don't want to be in the widow. I can't believe I just spent all this time training to get into a widow and now that I'm here, it's not even enjoyable for me.

This will alleviate that dilemma.


No it will change the dilemma, instead it will be omg this ship sucks I can't believe I paid $$$$$$$$$ to get this thing fk this game *quits*
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#456 - 2015-10-15 18:05:18 UTC
Massive no.

What's the point of the skill system at all once this is in? Might as well drop a bomb on the whole thing and let us fly whatever. And this scheme wont benefit a single newbie as the price of these boosters will be skyrocketed by people who can afford to pay any price.
Nataliya Barre
Men of Mayhem Inc.
Who Dares Wins.
#457 - 2015-10-15 18:05:19 UTC
Boot.ini problem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msXRFJ2ar_E

Could you do the same again? PLEASE!
Skinzee
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#458 - 2015-10-15 18:06:18 UTC
Captain Africa wrote:
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
Skinzee wrote:
Skinzee wrote:
I have a question for ALL people that say this is a bad idea...


--- WHAT EFFECT WOULD IT HAVE ON YOU AS A PILOT IF THIS WOULD ACTUALLY GO LIVE? ---


There is already an option to buy 0-200m SP characters... Character Bazaar - (Thats Pay2Win if you look at it that way)



Would love someone to actually give me a valid answer to this question.

As far as I can see, there is none.



I do... Bitter vets would have more people around them that could fly high end doctrines like they do. Just by roaming off their own SP.



Lemme throw this right back at you ...I had to wait 6 years to get my character trained up to be 145 mil sp do you think it fair that you would be able to achieve that by just buying sp and whalla ?


Honest answer? Yes. Why not?

Because your mad that this option wasn't available when you first started?

What difference would it make to you if I spent £100's to boost my character to your level? I can fly the same ship as you? Boo Hoo...
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#459 - 2015-10-15 18:07:02 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

It's bad because selling SP for isk, in any arbitrary amount, in any arbitrary package removes hard choices from the game. I like hard choices. I like playing games with hard choices.

Today you can buy a character, true. But that is a character crafted by another, with it's own flaws and skills not made to tailor for each individual. And you pay a market rate for them - some combinations of SP are worth more than others depending on the meta. Creating such characters, choosing to buy characters that are imperfect in one way or another represents hard choices made by either the buyer or the seller, and this is good.

I'm not sure thats a meaningful differentiator though. If I want a link alt, I buy a link alt. If I want a dread alt, I buy a dread alt. If I want a super alt, I buy a super alt. etc. I will get what I pay for, and its irrelevant to that core purchase decision if they also have (or don't have) heavy assault missile or astrometric skills etc?

F

If I want a skirmish link alt, I buy a link alt. But maybe I found a REALLY good link alt with the perfect name but he's also a perfect shield link alt, a perfect ewar link alt, and a perfect armor link alt. Maybe, I don't want all of that, I just want the skirmish links, but the shield link skills are so much better than the rest of the characters on the market that I'm willing to front the bill for all of the extra sp because I only like part of the character and the character name.

Maybe I found a perfect leviathan character, but his name is xX420DogPorkerXXNoScope360Xx and I'm a pretentious prick that can't stand to own such a character.

Maybe I found a perfect Avatar alt, but he's associated with a known scammer and his corp history is shady as hell.

Maybe I want an Aeon alt but can't afford it. So I buy a decent thanatos/aeon pilot that I grow into the character that I want, with a bit of unused thanatos sp on the side.

The point is this - from the moment we name a character, whether it is a main or an alt to be sold, we make choices that irrevocably affect said character and our own game play experience. This proposed system removes the significance of those choices, assuming you apply enough isk. I don't like this. I like hard choices, the harder the better. That's what makes EvE, EvE.
Nergart
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#460 - 2015-10-15 18:07:17 UTC
....so how long before eve is free to play?

i only ask so i can stop paying CCP any money?

as i see it this will likely be the intro to micro transactions.

pay this to improve your character, 1 step away from premium ammunition pay this to do more damage.

you know what just do it

us vets are really not bothered anymore, since the eve community has always been described as a passionate one people who are so disillusioned with the way eve is going that they just don't care and are here hoping things will change for the better hopes which seem to be growing dimmer by the day.

As for the CSM i feel this should be disbanded as no longer required/fit for purpose. As demonstrated with previous changes, the CSM council seems to be either a bunch of yes men not willing to stand up for the players they are attempting to represent or worse attempting to change the game in accordance to their own wishes.

the opinion of the CSM reflected here is either people who are jumping on the bandwagon like politicians running to the press saying "oh i was the sole voice of opposition to this" or they are clearly just being ignored and therefore not required.

played eve since 2009, i think its time to move on.

Eve does not have a learning curve, its a learning cliff. Either learn to fly on the way down or its going to be a hard landing