These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Captain Africa
GRIM MARCH
#361 - 2015-10-15 17:36:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Africa
Tzu Wu wrote:
Captain Africa wrote:
Skinzee wrote:
All the people moaning and complaining about the idea are people that already have 50-100+ million skill points...

Yes, you've spent your fair share of time training your skills to be where they are but this is NOT pay to win...

My character has 2.2million SP and am currently training core skills and want to fly a curse as its my favorite ship..

Current training time left to fly 'efficiently' - 70d 11h 21mn...

That is effectively 2.5m SP (roughly).

If I had the option to spend £20-30 to avoid those 70days to get into the ship I want to fly and make me want to play the game more, than I'd be happy to do it.


What issue do you see of a character being 'boosted' to 5m or even 10m skillpoints etc? I imagine it wont be cheap getting millions of skillpoints doing it this way either.

I was tempted by character bazaar and buying my own character but that character would never be 'mine'... it would never be special... never have my own name etc.

I fully agree with this option as I dont see a major issue with it.

All the vets can go cry somewhere else. Just because you dont want newbies being a 'competition' in anyway...

IM A NEWB AND I WANT TO PAY A LITTLE EXTRA TO FLY A SHIP AND ENJOY THE GAME THAT I ALREADY PAY FOR!



YOU DON'T BUY YOUR WAY INTO EVE >>>YOU EARN YOUR WAY INTO EVE ....like we all did !



Don't speak for everyone man. Have you not heard of the character bazaar? Saying "we all earned it" is beyond idiotic. That's just as much p2w as this is.



Your the idiot do you really think people know me by my real name ...were working with entities . You buy an entity that is a huge difference between buying skills.

You buy a rap sheet and you have to live with the consequences...that's the eve i know ...
Align Planet1
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#362 - 2015-10-15 17:36:33 UTC
I have no problem with it. I may change my mind, but no one on this thread given me a reason to change my mind so far.
Monasucks
BLACK SQUADRON.
Goonswarm Federation
#363 - 2015-10-15 17:36:43 UTC
Leisha Miranen wrote:
CCP, remember the community reaction before Fozzie Sov was released?

Same thing goinon here. And remember just how well Fozzie Sov panned out when the feedback was ignored.


That sov worked out?
Many players stopped playing eve..
big blocks still exists.. It's now much more a pain for them in the a**
But well better f*** they people paying you to life and work CCP instead of doing something for them.

Monasucks Tumblr

Twitter

"A good worker is a live worker. Free to live - and work! A bad worker is a dead worker; and vice versa. Don't be a bad worker; bad workers are slaves, and dead."

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#364 - 2015-10-15 17:37:04 UTC
Grog Barrel wrote:
Querns wrote:
Josia wrote:
My opinion: NO.

What CCP will say when they search this thread: Look 5% say they like the idea. Hooray. Let's do it Evil.

It is curious, isn't it?

Actually, no -- most of the people who dislike the idea are posting word salads rife with the tell-tale signs of an emotional outburst. Any sane person can easily discount these posts, as they add nothing.

Those who like the change typically post like me, and therefore are more worthy of consideration.


I find the amount of posts by goonies whiteknighting this idea rather interesting at this point, as if the idea itself came from an important (ex)goonie... ohwait.

Who, Rise? He's not a goon.

In fact, there are no more goons left on staff at CCP.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#365 - 2015-10-15 17:38:01 UTC
Tado wrote:
No thank you this is a terrible idea.

I have been playing this game since day one and for me this idea of yours will kill EVE for me.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume your motivation for playing Eve is to watch the SP number go up.

I'd recommend Cookie Clicker as a more satisfying number incrementing simulator, personally.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Skinzee
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#366 - 2015-10-15 17:38:09 UTC
I have a question for ALL people that say this is a bad idea...


--- WHAT EFFECT WOULD IT HAVE ON YOU AS A PILOT IF THIS WOULD ACTUALLY GO LIVE? ---


There is already an option to buy 0-200m SP characters... Character Bazaar - (Thats Pay2Win if you look at it that way)
Ruvin
Siberian Squads
#367 - 2015-10-15 17:38:34 UTC
I was first very possitive about this , then read a bit of reddit and thought that maybe i was wrong and it was so nice after all .
Then i thought a bit more , in the end its not so "bad" or gamebreaking . But neither it is that good .

For example point 1 , new players .
New player has little SP no money and no friends , he also may soon realise he will need an alt its almost mandatoory . His choice is either accept harsh universe or put a hefty real money investment . Both i think bad , i like the idea of giving money as bonus , for skins clothes (i have a monocle and 2 bionic arms right now ) But older players those who are investing in EVE not new people it scares and alienates them , there is already to much talking about p2w .

Point 2 new players friends of veterans , probably aimed customer base , but i for example am introducing a new friend right now . I specced his attributes right and doing a super focused training , so he gets "viable" asap . Also we are considering getting a starter alt/main oof 15-30 sp to dual train or to be viable before main acc gets to this point . Money and ships arent a probllem i will provide this . So here yes i could inject him with 2 3 milions (btw he has already 5milions so diminushing returns kick in ) So already loosing , alsoo acelerator should be better used AFTER injecting a boost of 5 milion sp so you get full profit withoout diminuishing returns . Anyway usefullness is there i see it "here" .

Old characters : if someone has 1 trilion isk and 200kk sp i dont rlly care if he gets 20 more milions or not , doubt many do . If you are dirty rich for example Mittani and he has either 150kk sp or 300kk sp anyone cares ? Not rlly it doesnt give him that much of advantage . And they also reduce sp ingame which is good .

The problems :
I think would be bad skills , i think xxxxxx SP into mining and xxxxxx into space ship comand is a big difference .

Training with 2 attrributes maxxed and then just spread around those SP , or having full leadershiip social section done without never respecing into social is a bit to good .

Now if we for example have command ships we do not need to train prerequisites , what will happen in such situations ?

To be honest i think it puts a BIG barrier between REAL newbies , and current players base & co .

Even if i like the idea where how it started i dont rlly like the implementation , not cos of p2w and so on . But i think there should be other ways to make a "bought" character "yours" . I understand name wipe and corp history is out of question but i would rather look into that directiion .

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.

Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#368 - 2015-10-15 17:39:06 UTC
This idea has come up in many variations on the F&I forum time after time. Every time it has been shot down and rightly so. CCP read your own forums for a change.

Here's a linky to the stickied thread on the topic:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=406137&find=unread

To reiterate; Just no, Hell no!

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.

Hendrink Collie
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#369 - 2015-10-15 17:39:09 UTC
Querns wrote:
Tado wrote:
No thank you this is a terrible idea.

I have been playing this game since day one and for me this idea of yours will kill EVE for me.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume your motivation for playing Eve is to watch the SP number go up.

I'd recommend Cookie Clicker as a more satisfying number incrementing simulator, personally.


I don't know, I personally really like making the ship spinner counter go up. Smile
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#370 - 2015-10-15 17:39:55 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Querns wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Querns wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

As someone else already said, CCP's move to make the game "more accessible" have been smashing successes so for.

Naivety is a bad thing for a business.

[...]
Sure, but the burden of proof is on the person who says "X happened, therefore the fact that Y also happened shows a direct relationship."

Correlation is evidence (or perhaps more accurately an analysis of evidence, but semantics). Evidence that can be used to support a conclusion of causation. Ignoring that evidence with a platitude of "correlation is not causation" is foolish.

The general public lifted "correlation is not causation" from scientific literature, most notably the "debate" on climate change. Yet, in the broad scientific community, correlation is used as evidence of causation in tens of thousands of papers across every quantifiable subject imaginable. Correlation alone does not prove causation, but it can be and is used as part of a set of proofs for causation.

Evidence alone is not sufficient. It has to be shown to directly affect the causation. Observing PCU count drop isn't even that great as evidence, because PCU itself is only tenuously related to subscriber count.

Every argument or thesis starts off with nothing but a scrap of evidence or observation. Nascent ideas are not discarded out of hand because they haven't been completely proven yet. Especially if there is some evidence for them.

My own view is that driving eve too far into the "accessible" category may result in depriving the game of unique aspects - choices with consequences.

From where I stand, the drive to make sov more accessible (looking at you sov wands & ceptors) has directly led to a great many individuals and entities out right abandoning the game entirely. This isn't some PCU count bullshit. F*ck PCU. This is about long-term players and community organizations preferring (figurative) death to living with these "ease of accessibility" changes.

Selling SP for isk, in any arbitrary amount, in any arbitrary package removes hard choices from the game. I like hard choices. I like playing games with hard choices.

Today you can buy a character, true. But that is a character crafted by another, with it's own flaws and skills not made to tailor for each individual. And you pay a market rate for them - some combinations of SP are worth more than others depending on the meta. Creating such characters, choosing to buy characters that are imperfect in one way or another represents hard choices made by either the buyer or the seller, and this is good.

If I didn't want hard choices, I'd be playing candy crush or DudeBroShooter 2015 October Edition.
Tank Murdock Jnr
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#371 - 2015-10-15 17:40:05 UTC
Hey...wait a minute.

Does this mean I'll be able to sell Mining 2, and all the other total carebear crap I was born with? Hmmm.

When a person is insane, as you clearly are, do you know that you're insane? Maybe you're just sitting around, reading 'Guns and Ammo', masturbating in your own faeces...do you just stop and go, 'Wow! It is amazing how f*cking crazy I really am!'?

Felo Maxun
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#372 - 2015-10-15 17:40:37 UTC
! This is a terrible idea !
Yin Zheng
Blumenkranz Academy
#373 - 2015-10-15 17:40:51 UTC
ITT: I can't even come up with any constructive arguments against this feature, because it is just this good. But please don't implement it because it's not how it was up until now, and also because I somehow have a gut feeling that this is bad!
Tank Murdock Jnr
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#374 - 2015-10-15 17:40:56 UTC
Also...will I be able to sell all the skills I train on my disposable gank alts prior to me biomassing them?

When a person is insane, as you clearly are, do you know that you're insane? Maybe you're just sitting around, reading 'Guns and Ammo', masturbating in your own faeces...do you just stop and go, 'Wow! It is amazing how f*cking crazy I really am!'?

Skinzee
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#375 - 2015-10-15 17:41:01 UTC
Captain Africa wrote:
Tzu Wu wrote:
Captain Africa wrote:
Skinzee wrote:
All the people moaning and complaining about the idea are people that already have 50-100+ million skill points...

Yes, you've spent your fair share of time training your skills to be where they are but this is NOT pay to win...

My character has 2.2million SP and am currently training core skills and want to fly a curse as its my favorite ship..

Current training time left to fly 'efficiently' - 70d 11h 21mn...

That is effectively 2.5m SP (roughly).

If I had the option to spend £20-30 to avoid those 70days to get into the ship I want to fly and make me want to play the game more, than I'd be happy to do it.


What issue do you see of a character being 'boosted' to 5m or even 10m skillpoints etc? I imagine it wont be cheap getting millions of skillpoints doing it this way either.

I was tempted by character bazaar and buying my own character but that character would never be 'mine'... it would never be special... never have my own name etc.

I fully agree with this option as I dont see a major issue with it.

All the vets can go cry somewhere else. Just because you dont want newbies being a 'competition' in anyway...

IM A NEWB AND I WANT TO PAY A LITTLE EXTRA TO FLY A SHIP AND ENJOY THE GAME THAT I ALREADY PAY FOR!



YOU DON'T BUY YOUR WAY INTO EVE >>>YOU EARN YOUR WAY INTO EVE ....like we all did !



Don't speak for everyone man. Have you not heard of the character bazaar? Saying "we all earned it" is beyond idiotic. That's just as much p2w as this is.



Your the idiot do you really think people know me by my real name ...were working with entities . You buy an entity that is a huge difference between buying skills.

You buy a rap sheet and you have to live with the consequences...that's the eve i know ...


How is that a huge difference? THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE OTHER THAN THE BIRTHDATE OF THE CHARACTER. So you buy a character who was a previous corp thief, pirate, scammer or w/e... now what? your screwed with a character with a bad rep which you had nothing to do with.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#376 - 2015-10-15 17:42:34 UTC
Excellent, this is a great idea.

Thanks CCP.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#377 - 2015-10-15 17:42:36 UTC
There already is pay-to-skip-levelling-up, it's called the character bazaar, so that horse left the barn a long time ago.

However, moving SP from one toon to another seems a bad idea, I will say I don't know why because agreeing with Ripard Teg on anything is abhorrent to me.

I am ok with re-allocating SP within a toon, with the diminishing returns approach suggested by CCP. Its re-allocating, not buying.

I am even more ok with making the new player experience more compelling and less an utter ballache, by giving subbed toons 10m SP to allocate as they see fit on day one. This reduces the initial SP grind ballache while not breaking overall SP progression to high SP toons. i.e. Lets be honest, it still takes about 80-85m SP and upwards of 4 years to fly most of the subcap stuff you want to fly well.

F
Kalaratiri
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
#378 - 2015-10-15 17:43:07 UTC
Not a fan of being able to sell SP on the open market.

However, I can see the use for a "remap" style item that allows you to pull SP out of unwanted skills you already have trained, and apply it to other skills on just your character.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#379 - 2015-10-15 17:43:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Skinzee wrote:
If I had the option to spend £20-30 to avoid those 70days to get into the ship I want to fly and make me want to play the game more, than I'd be happy to do it.

Just curious, how do you want to pay for the Curses? I mean, you are going to lose the Curses a lot. Plex? Skins? Clothes? You want to add more money to that 20-30 in addition to the sub just to be able to fly your ship before you can earn the money to fly it? You certainly are the customer CCP needs. Just mindlessly throw money at something to make something "bad" go away.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Viliana Ovaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#380 - 2015-10-15 17:43:41 UTC
I like this idea. Especially where I am, at slightly over 20m SP. Unless I am misunderstanding, I can pick up one of these packets and gain 400k SP, which is what, a week of training? Corp comes out with new doctrine, but I would have to use meta weapons like a scrub? No prob, I could just pick up a packet or two and I can use the T2! Anything that increases versatility is a good thing.