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Nerf Webs

Author
Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#1 - 2015-10-11 10:21:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Azazel The Misanthrope
I am bringing this back again.

I am suggesting:

"Reduce the effectiveness of propulsion systems by 60%-90%" instead of "Reduce maximum velocity by 60%".
Kasia en Tilavine
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-10-11 10:29:10 UTC
Reduce their effect to 50% at the t2 level while industry model has 40% and meta is 45%.

Give them falloff equivalent to their optimal. Industry at 6 km, meta at 7, and t2 at 8 km.

When I. Falloff, a new speed reduction value is calculated based off distance into falloff, every time the module completes a cycle. Cycle time 5s with cap brought down to keep the same cap/s
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2015-10-11 10:29:20 UTC
Why?

You state they're a bad mechanic. Now back that statement up.
Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#4 - 2015-10-11 10:31:31 UTC
Kasia en Tilavine wrote:
Reduce their effect to 50% at the t2 level while industry model has 40% and meta is 45%.

Give them falloff equivalent to their optimal. Industry at 6 km, meta at 7, and t2 at 8 km.

When I. Falloff, a new speed reduction value is calculated based off distance into falloff, every time the module completes a cycle. Cycle time 5s with cap brought down to keep the same cap/s


I can not say that I agree with that or think that it is a good idea even.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-10-11 10:45:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Ix Method
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
Webs are a bad game mechanic

[red pen] You need to show your working [/red pen]

Travelling at the speed of love.

Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#6 - 2015-10-11 10:54:49 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Why?

You state they're a bad mechanic. Now back that statement up.


never thought i would agree with a goons post for the full 100% but i do so TS why?

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Mag's
Azn Empire
#7 - 2015-10-11 11:08:39 UTC
If anything, one could argue webs were over nerfed the last time round. So your assertion that they need a further nerf is quite frankly, ludicrous.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#8 - 2015-10-11 11:26:29 UTC
Offering clarity as to "Why" specifically; the concept of flatly slowing ships down is sort of "unnatural". There is no precedent for this kind of mechanic in any similar game. It serves to flatly decrease the range of movement options that the opponent has while under it effect. While that does have its explicitly intended purpose, it becomes a sort of staple in much of brawling in general and reduces many of brawling engagements to straight up slugfests where mobility is essentially negated.

Because of their line as a "staple" weapon they create an artificial commitment range where, once entered, combat slows to a near halt and in many cases can be inescapable. This directly contributes to the awkward place of brawling in general and the kite heavy meta in the current iteration of EVE. It is largely non-interactive like most forms of EWAR (which are equally bad in many cases) :however, unlike many other forms of EWAR webbing pertains a much higher prevalence on the battlefield and is not locked in its effectiveness to specific ships.

Instead of trailing on, ultimately, it is usually makes for a far more entertaining, immersive, and interactive engagement if damage application and interdiction revolved more around actual movement, positioning, velocity, and the calculation of these things; rather than simply slowing down the opponent as much as possible in a way that is very awkward to respond to.
Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#9 - 2015-10-11 11:32:10 UTC
Mag's wrote:
If anything, one could argue webs were over nerfed the last time round. So your assertion that they need a further nerf is quite frankly, ludicrous.



Regardless, they are very boring objects. If they were limited in effectiveness to exclusive ships I could understand, but with the prevalence they have now is ridiculous.

90% Webbing power is a ludicrously powerful effect. Why equip propulsion at all in that case? That sort of thing only encourages kiting even more.
Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#10 - 2015-10-11 11:37:17 UTC
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
I am bringing this back again.

I am suggesting:

"Reduce the effectiveness of propulsion systems by 60%-90%" instead of "Reduce maximum velocity by 60%".

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#11 - 2015-10-11 11:43:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
90% webs are limited to exclusive ships.

As long as there is no end to bumping, I am against any changes to webs because freighters do not have prop mods and require webs.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2015-10-11 11:48:49 UTC
Not allowed to post killboard, but could your reasoning be because you recently died to close-range pvp?

Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#13 - 2015-10-11 11:48:53 UTC
My suggestion is intended so that the module can't lower ship velocities lower than their base value for the hull. Currently fitting a propulsion module and activating it under webs is actually to the detriment of the ship being webbed in a lot of cases seeing as the ship is still suffering the mass penalties of the prop, but without gaining any of the benefits; however it is still unwise to deactivate the module because then your ship would be moving even slower than without it. This creates the slow, awkward and clunky combat that brawling usually is.

This suggestion simply allows the pilot to turn the prop mod off so as not to be a brick in space, but not be at a standstill either, with that kind of flexibility you can make the web mod more powerful even. The point is just to make it a more interactive, more tactical item that forces that opponent to make a decision.
Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#14 - 2015-10-11 11:53:10 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Not allowed to post killboard, but could your reasoning be because you recently died to close-range pvp?



This is a very typical response to this kind of post, and I understand why you would say that; however this is not why I am posting this. I am posting this because I have a lot of experience with brawling, largely in frigates, but when I fight another brawler or other ship in general, the fight is always more entertaining when webs are not involved. I like being able to move and mitigate dps, pull a juke maneuver, boom and zoom, and do a variety of maneuvers in space, like one would if they were in a kiting ship; however when webs are involved, usually both ships are just sitting there. Doing nothing interesting but shooting.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2015-10-11 12:09:56 UTC
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
My suggestion is intended so that the module can't lower ship velocities lower than their base value for the hull. Currently fitting a propulsion module and activating it under webs is actually to the detriment of the ship being webbed in a lot of cases seeing as the ship is still suffering the mass penalties of the prop, but without gaining any of the benefits; however it is still unwise to deactivate the module because then your ship would be moving even slower than without it. This creates the slow, awkward and clunky combat that brawling usually is.

This suggestion simply allows the pilot to turn the prop mod off so as not to be a brick in space, but not be at a standstill either, with that kind of flexibility you can make the web mod more powerful even. The point is just to make it a more interactive, more tactical item that forces that opponent to make a decision.


But why do so many different things need such a heavy nerf? I mean, you want to hit:

Battleships/battlecruisers engaging anything smaller than they are
Cruisers vs frigates
Missile boats
Incursion ratting
Wormhole ratting
Kiting
Moving freighters/caps/DSTs
Gatecamps
Recons

Just so you can buff the hell out of brawly frigates and T3Ds?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2015-10-11 12:21:43 UTC
OP, why do you want to stop my turret battleship from having any chance at all with hitting something small, fast and close?
Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#17 - 2015-10-11 12:29:52 UTC
Same people, same comments, same arguments as before. Totally different OP. Seriously, the suggested change leaves the webs just as strong as they are now minus the ability to effect non propped ships. Which in many cases is fairly slow enough anyway to target anyway. Nobody actually reads the OP they just read the title and/or what they dislike about the paraphrasing, and then comments on that.
Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#18 - 2015-10-11 12:30:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
OP, why do you want to stop my turret battleship from having any chance at all with hitting something small, fast and close?


Bring support.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2015-10-11 12:32:40 UTC
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:


Bring support.


So now I cant solo in the ships I enjoy and have enjoyed for the last decade?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2015-10-11 12:33:55 UTC
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
Same people, same comments, same arguments as before. Totally different OP. Seriously, the suggested change leaves the webs just as strong as they are now minus the ability to effect non propped ships. Which in many cases is fairly slow enough anyway to target anyway. Nobody actually reads the OP they just read the title and/or what they dislike about the paraphrasing, and then comments on that.



I gave you a big list of things you'd be nerfing. You chose to ignore it.

And how does bringing support help if the webs the support ships are using aren't going to slow the target down either?
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