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Just killed Dagan with 2 days old pilot
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Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-09-07 10:04:52 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Tarojan wrote:
interestingly the forum won't let me post. something about html.


yea forums don't like characters like < > and /


///<>///

tie-fighter of doooooooom

Art of Explosions
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#22 - 2015-09-07 20:24:21 UTC
Forum Toon wrote:
In far past I played eve but biomass my pilots and closed that account.
Last night I got the urge to try EVE again and got 30 days trial + starter pack (extra 30 days + plex + 140 items).

At any rate focusing on Gallente and Gunnery I went to do SoE arc after I finished the 2 Military career agents and got my free catalyst.

Very low skills... some +1 implants nothing special...

Fit:

[Catalyst, Dagan Killer 1]
F85 Peripheral Damage System I
Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Magnetic Vortex Stabilizer

1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Small F-4a Ld-Sulfate Capacitor Charge Unit

Modal Light Electron Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Electron Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Electron Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Electron Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Electron Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Electron Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Electron Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Electron Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge S

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Nanobot Accelerator I
Small Targeting System Subcontroller I

the targeting rig was due to available stock in station.
Electron guns due to my horrendous fitting skills at the time.
Due to lack of slots for tanking and the fact my tank is based around armor rep I chose mid slot with a battery (couldn't use Cap Recharger yet) so I can squeeze some extra rep cycles before I need warp out.

Battle started by destroying quickly the frigates (his henchman) then Approaching Dagan at full speed using the AB.
once under 1KM I turn off the AB to preserve cap and nuke him with my 167 whooping ( :-D) dps constant fire.

First round I warped out when he was at 50% armor.
Second round I killed him.

very satisfying.

07


Nice. My own first character was about two weeks old and needed a Thorax to do this.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#23 - 2015-09-07 21:24:15 UTC
I thought the entire point of degan was to get newbies to ask for help.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#24 - 2015-09-07 23:51:25 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
I thought the entire point of degan was to get newbies to ask for help.

I think that is what the mission suggests you do, but it can be brute forced rather easily. That said to figure it out it is likely the newbie has to either ask for or look for some help, in which case I think it shows they are self sufficient enough to deal with most parts of Eve. although not sure if that is better or worse than potentially making a friend. but in other games how many randos have you teamed up with for something, and never said another thing to, for me that number is pretty dang high. I do have to find some sort of community at some point, but

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#25 - 2015-09-09 05:56:45 UTC
Dagan wasn't that bad honestly, he doesn't do much damage and as a newbie I was able to tank it and though I couldn't break him on the first try, I kept toying with my fit to do more and more damage till I finally killed him.

It's that dude, Kristan Parthus or something like that (the BC rat that has a NOS). That guy messed me up so badly, I think I lost like 3 Merlins to him lol.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2015-09-10 11:30:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Celthric Kanerian
I remember doing this mission 4 years ago, though back then I couldn't solo it, so I got help from a Hyperion pilot.

If a new players are able to solo it, then congratz to them, they deserve some credit.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2015-09-10 12:01:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Demerius Xenocratus
I killed Dagan at 1-2 weeks in a 150mm rail comet. Took me a few minutes of afk orbiting at 500 to break his tank, but not terribly challenging.

A gank fit catalyst even with low skills is going to be overkill. I think that Dagan could be used as a better learning experience for newbies. Make him hit harder at range so that low SP toons in small ships need to get under his guns; maybe have him MWD around grid so that you need to fit a scram to kill him quickly. If NPC's could be made to mimic drones (like the defensive drone flight a player BC would launch) that would be cool too.

I just re-ran the arc in a Vagabond and I actually nearly got myself in a bit of trouble. There's a recon mission where you warp in on a substantial collection of rats including a capital (not sure if carrier or dread) and a bunch of high tier battleships; I decided to try and kill them instead of warping out immediately as you're intended. Something neuted me out in one cycle and the rats started hitting for full DPS (i.e. what you'd expect warping at 0 to a Hub or something) and I hit low shield before I was able to warp out.

Sometimes when they tell you just to look and return to base I guess it's for a reason.
Forum Toon
Doomheim
#28 - 2015-09-10 14:34:28 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

Sometimes when they tell you just to look and return to base I guess it's for a reason.


Truer words were never spoken.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#29 - 2015-09-10 15:25:34 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
I thought the entire point of degan was to get newbies to ask for help.



For me, the point was more about learning to fit your ship correctly. Dagan schooled me several times until I went in with a uniform blaster-fit. Without him, I would probably have tried to mix long- and short-range weapons on my ships for months without noticing how bad this works in praxis.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#30 - 2015-09-10 17:48:35 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Dagan wasn't that bad honestly, he doesn't do much damage and as a newbie I was able to tank it and though I couldn't break him on the first try, I kept toying with my fit to do more and more damage till I finally killed him.

It's that dude, Kristan Parthus or something like that (the BC rat that has a NOS). That guy messed me up so badly, I think I lost like 3 Merlins to him lol.

I hardly remember that one, maybe I was just lucky using an AC fit, or maybe I had a cap booster?

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Forum Toon
Doomheim
#31 - 2015-09-10 17:50:55 UTC
the BC with nos problem is when you use any weapon system which requires cap you can't kill it.
and if you don't have enough dps tossed in before the nos starts you are pretty screwed.
Zihao
Doomheim
#32 - 2015-09-10 19:43:13 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
Dagan wasn't that bad honestly, he doesn't do much damage and as a newbie I was able to tank it and though I couldn't break him on the first try, I kept toying with my fit to do more and more damage till I finally killed him.

It's that dude, Kristan Parthus or something like that (the BC rat that has a NOS). That guy messed me up so badly, I think I lost like 3 Merlins to him lol.

I hardly remember that one, maybe I was just lucky using an AC fit, or maybe I had a cap booster?


It's trivial if you kite her outside the range of her neutralizer. If you did it in a drone ship with 3 lights and set to keep at range, you'd probably never notice she was anything special.
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#33 - 2015-09-12 05:53:54 UTC
Zihao wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Zihao wrote:
You clearly missed my point.

I don't think I did. in most ways I agree with it. Many things can be learned, and I spend most of my time on the forums trying to help people out. There are still things that must be learned by playing the game. I could watch chessur's slicer video a 100 times, but chessur would still be a better slicer pilot.


I'm glad we agree, and I certainly don't disagree that you learn by doing, but you learn what to do by observing others, as well as trial and error. Returning to my original point: there's nothing fruitful about the observation that a new player and a veteran player are two different types of player, particularly because the implication is that said new player can attempt to emulate, but will never succeed in doing so.

Amber Starview wrote:

Wow how did u come to that conclusion from what I wrote ? you trying to troll me is lame


I don't know how I'm trolling you. I just pointed out the OP put up some useful information and you derided it with a completely banal observation that helped nobody and only served to highlight your dim view of new players' abilities.


Actually, it's a remarkably good observation and very useful when you consider the fact that when a new player comes to EvE for the first time and does the starter missions, the single most common misperception at that stage is that skill points and shiny ships are the keys to "winning" EvE. New people get the idea stuck in their heads that you can't do anything either useful or fun until you level up to a certain point--which is both flat-out wrong and also sadly encouraged by a certain segment of players in-game.

The knowledge that player skills are far more important than character skills is a central, useful, and encouraging idea. And this happens to be a perfect thread to post that information in since it was posted by someone who had prior experience coming back with a new toon and having success with one of the most common challenges for new players. This thread is likely to have a good hit rate for new players coming and searching for the solution to the Dagan problem.

I think you're just being contrary for the sake of being contrary.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#34 - 2015-09-12 06:03:26 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
I thought the entire point of degan was to get newbies to ask for help.




I think it is, and it definitely worked on me on my first toon. I was totally bingeing on EvE when I first got into it and played for a couple of days straight (minus DT) back in 2007. I was maybe 18 hours old when I ran into Dagan and had absolutely no ******* clue how to fit a ship or anything. I was just flying whatever was free with a horrible assortment of god-awful modules that I had been given from the tutorials. I think I still had a bunch of civilian modules fitted.

Of course I couldn't do anything with that, so I went looking for help. Found a guy in local who was willing to help me out. He recruited me to his corp, taught me a little about fitting ships, showed me good online resources to learn more, and we've been real life friends ever since then. I even got him a job at one of my former companies a while back.

Anyway, I feel like the average power of a given ship is a good bit higher than it was back then. Maybe Dagan needs a rebalance to push the need for help a bit stronger. I've started several toons from scratch since then, and Dagan is a piece of cake now. But then again that's hard for me to judge because I have knowledge and skills that noobs don't have.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Zihao
Doomheim
#35 - 2015-09-12 17:07:50 UTC
I don't think our propositions are mutually exclusive. I agree with everything you said about players skill. I also retain my conviction that "yeah but you're not a new player," is a throw-away observation meant to express cynicism rather than help anyone. Not that anyone is obligated to be helpful, but neither are we obligated not to call someone a cynic.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2015-09-15 09:09:42 UTC
Zihao wrote:
I don't think our propositions are mutually exclusive. I agree with everything you said about players skill. I also retain my conviction that "yeah but you're not a new player," is a throw-away observation meant to express cynicism rather than help anyone. Not that anyone is obligated to be helpful, but neither are we obligated not to call someone a cynic.



I don't see how that's a throwaway observation. A player two days into the game on their first account disposing of Mr. Dagan quickly and demonstrating the sort of fitting acumen displayed above would be far more impressive than a veteran doing it on their second, third, fourth etc. account.

It's not called the new player experience based on how challenging it is for veterans who kick off a focused skill plan the moment they log in. I could probably kill Dagan by the end of however long it took me to run through the epic arc.

That's actually an interesting challenge someone might undertake.
Icarus fall
What Shall We Call It
#37 - 2015-09-16 17:08:17 UTC
anyone that has the willpower to burn though the 50 missions and down dagan without quitting eve should be recognized. weathers its your first account ever eve or a new toon an older player started.
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