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Would it be possible for CCP to make Eve Online free to play?

First post
Author
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#141 - 2015-09-07 23:33:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Unezka Turigahl
The VC's wrote:
To be fair, CCP would make more money on skins if most of the skins weren't so crap.


Yeah, the blue Stratios looks cool. Other than that, meh. Though even the blue Stratios looks a bit... unfinished and plastic. Like a Stratios was just dunked in blue paint. A lot of the custom skins feel that way. Doesn't feel natural. A side effect of a simple palette swap rather than a skin designed from scratch with intent.

Gallente with it's retro shapes could do with some custom skins with shark mouth and lady luck decals. Piratey types would probably dig that. Maybe an olive drab + aluminum skin to further mimic old bombers for ships like the Algos. Put a shark mouth up near the front. And a sexy lady in place of the Gallente logo. Also, I'm sure more police variants would sell well. And maybe a two tone skin mimicking 30s-40s hotrods ... burgundy top and grey bottom with chrome trim for the Domi or something.

Or some more colorful homeworld-ish skins for Minmatar like so. Or some skins for Ishukone ships like the Eagle that replace the horrible Ishukone fade with gold feather-like decals like the ones seen on this skin. Though something like that should have been the stock Ishukone skin IMHO. Full-body fades are just ugly. So is camouflage. Angels ships would look cool reverted back to their solid dark color, but with bold graphic angular stripes applied with white paint in a messy fashion, that somewhat mimic the faction's logo.
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
#142 - 2015-09-08 00:18:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lex Gabinia
Verstal wrote:

Yes a game like Dota2 makes 12.5 mil a day, LoL 32mil a day these are world wide numbers.


No they do not - that equates to 4.5 billion USD and 11.6 billion USD annually. Not even close. You overstated these amounts by about 1,800%.

But don't take my word for it:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-01-20-league-of-legends-2013-revenue-topped-USD600m-report

Highest revenue game was just shy of 1 billion USD annually.

Edit: additional data - worldwide MMO market for 2014 only 8 billion USD (every MMO). LoL did move to top but still just under 1 billion USD.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/23/league-of-legends-tops-mmo-revenue-list-hearthstone-no-10/
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#143 - 2015-09-08 00:18:37 UTC
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
The VC's wrote:
To be fair, CCP would make more money on skins if most of the skins weren't so crap.


Yeah, the blue Stratios looks cool. Other than that, meh.

Gallente with it's retro shapes could do with some custom skins with shark mouth and lady luck decals. Piratey types would probably dig that. Maybe an olive drab + aluminum skin to further mimic old bombers for ships like the Algos. Put a shark mouth up near the front. And a sexy lady in place of the Gallente logo. Also, I'm sure more police variants would sell well. And maybe a two tone skin mimicking 30s-40s hotrods ... burgundy top and grey bottom with chrome trim for the Domi or something.

Or some more colorful homeworld-ish skins for Minmatar like so. Or some skins for Ishukone ships like the Eagle that replace the horrible Ishukone fade with gold feather-like decals like the ones seen on this skin. Though something like that should have been the stock Ishukone skin IMHO. Full-body fades are just ugly. So is camouflage. Angels ships would look cool reverted back to their solid dark color, but with bold graphic angular stripes applied with white paint in a messy fashion, that somewhat mimic the faction's logo.


All good suggestions and I agree.

I have made progress on the design framework to convert the current player base to a free to play system so people would feel that the effort put into the game for the past 12+ years has been worth it and entire new combat system risk / reward.

Rough estimate is that Titan capable character with a titan would be worth 120 bil isk / GTC singles = 2400 USD dollars in value using this as a baseline for all ship costs. That is just the value of one ship and one character 1/3 of an account at current market rates.

Another interesting way of thinking about it based on server bandwidth if the current hardware can support 100k or X players on at one time, then the current design of the product is 33.3% of what it should be. If I was designing a modern day ps4 or PC game and only used 33% of the hardware capabilities I would get fired.

Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
#144 - 2015-09-08 00:24:59 UTC
Verstal wrote:

All good suggestions and I agree.

I have made progress on the design framework to convert the current player base to a free to play system so people would feel that the effort put into the game for the past 12+ years has been worth it and entire new combat system risk / reward.

Rough estimate is that Titan capable character with a titan would be worth 120 bil isk / GTC singles = 2400 USD dollars in value using this as a baseline for all ship costs. That is just the value of one ship and one character 1/3 of an account at current market rates.

Another interesting way of thinking about it based on server bandwidth if the current hardware can support 100k or X players on at one time, then the current design of the product is 33.3% of what it should be. If I was designing a modern day ps4 or PC game and only used 33% of the hardware capabilities I would get fired.




For goodness sakes why don't you just go play, or freaking create yourself, this different, perfect game rather than try to change this one.

Seriously, wtf?

No really, why the hell are you even still playing as this game is so far from the game you wish it to be?
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#145 - 2015-09-08 00:45:42 UTC
Lex Gabinia wrote:
Verstal wrote:

All good suggestions and I agree.

I have made progress on the design framework to convert the current player base to a free to play system so people would feel that the effort put into the game for the past 12+ years has been worth it and entire new combat system risk / reward.

Rough estimate is that Titan capable character with a titan would be worth 120 bil isk / GTC singles = 2400 USD dollars in value using this as a baseline for all ship costs. That is just the value of one ship and one character 1/3 of an account at current market rates.

Another interesting way of thinking about it based on server bandwidth if the current hardware can support 100k or X players on at one time, then the current design of the product is 33.3% of what it should be. If I was designing a modern day ps4 or PC game and only used 33% of the hardware capabilities I would get fired.




For goodness sakes why don't you just go play, or freaking create yourself, this different, perfect game rather than try to change this one.

Seriously, wtf?

No really, why the hell are you even still playing as this game is so far from the game you wish it to be?



It is an interesting design challenge, the efforts might turn into a personal project.
45thtiger 0109
Already Replaced.
#146 - 2015-09-08 00:46:29 UTC
Tiberius Heth wrote:
Name one F2P game that isn't completely moronic due to p2W and/or an influx of hilarious shitclowns and full of 12 yearolds.


I fully Agreed there are a lot of 12 year old's who play lots of games and if they do not get their way they winge and whine till the devs have to do something about it.

I have continued to play EvE and had paid for one year sub at a time.

Its much cheaper to pay for one year sub than one month at a time do the maths for those new players.

CCP has done a marvelous job over the years in keeping this game going and yes since the last update things have been quite for CCP.


And no I do not agree that EvE should be Free to play.

I have seen other MMO's go down that path and its not a pretty sight.

When other MMO's are Free to play they take so long to have a new update.

Where with EvE the updates are done nearly every month and that where the subs come into it.

The people in CCP need to get paid for their hard work and commitment to this great game.

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**

Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
#147 - 2015-09-08 00:47:53 UTC
Verstal wrote:
Lex Gabinia wrote:
Verstal wrote:

All good suggestions and I agree.

I have made progress on the design framework to convert the current player base to a free to play system so people would feel that the effort put into the game for the past 12+ years has been worth it and entire new combat system risk / reward.

Rough estimate is that Titan capable character with a titan would be worth 120 bil isk / GTC singles = 2400 USD dollars in value using this as a baseline for all ship costs. That is just the value of one ship and one character 1/3 of an account at current market rates.

Another interesting way of thinking about it based on server bandwidth if the current hardware can support 100k or X players on at one time, then the current design of the product is 33.3% of what it should be. If I was designing a modern day ps4 or PC game and only used 33% of the hardware capabilities I would get fired.




For goodness sakes why don't you just go play, or freaking create yourself, this different, perfect game rather than try to change this one.

Seriously, wtf?

No really, why the hell are you even still playing as this game is so far from the game you wish it to be?



It is an interesting design challenge, the efforts might turn into a personal project.



Well I hope you have someone else in charge of the economics because your wild expectations of revenue generated by MMO games will leave you sorely disappointed when reality sets in.
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#148 - 2015-09-08 01:32:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Verstal
Lex Gabinia wrote:
Verstal wrote:
Lex Gabinia wrote:
Verstal wrote:

All good suggestions and I agree.

I have made progress on the design framework to convert the current player base to a free to play system so people would feel that the effort put into the game for the past 12+ years has been worth it and entire new combat system risk / reward.

Rough estimate is that Titan capable character with a titan would be worth 120 bil isk / GTC singles = 2400 USD dollars in value using this as a baseline for all ship costs. That is just the value of one ship and one character 1/3 of an account at current market rates.

Another interesting way of thinking about it based on server bandwidth if the current hardware can support 100k or X players on at one time, then the current design of the product is 33.3% of what it should be. If I was designing a modern day ps4 or PC game and only used 33% of the hardware capabilities I would get fired.




For goodness sakes why don't you just go play, or freaking create yourself, this different, perfect game rather than try to change this one.

Seriously, wtf?

No really, why the hell are you even still playing as this game is so far from the game you wish it to be?



It is an interesting design challenge, the efforts might turn into a personal project.



Well I hope you have someone else in charge of the economics because your wild expectations of revenue generated by MMO games will leave you sorely disappointed when reality sets in.


Most of the people that founded CCP left a few years ago including most of the founding design team. When I came back a few weeks ago if you read the entire thread I had bunch of other game devs play with me, and have had many try Eve over the years.

Reason for starting with Eve is that I love Eve as is but its not a model that produces enough money for todays game market it really never did. The game will end up being very different then what you are playing right now but it would make more money then Eve does today.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#149 - 2015-09-08 02:12:55 UTC
Verstal wrote:
Reason for starting with Eve is that I love Eve as is but its not a model that produces enough money for todays game market it really never did.
Yet CCP are still in business, and they appear to be relatively happy with the money that they make.
Quote:
The game will end up being very different then what you are playing right now but it would make more money then Eve does today.
CCP are well aware of this, I believe the general consensus amongst CCP staff is that they're not willing to "sell out" and change the nature of Eve in order to compete in the more mainstream market.

Niche products, they're a thing.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#150 - 2015-09-08 02:25:38 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Verstal wrote:
Reason for starting with Eve is that I love Eve as is but its not a model that produces enough money for todays game market it really never did.
Yet CCP are still in business, and they appear to be relatively happy with the money that they make.
Quote:
The game will end up being very different then what you are playing right now but it would make more money then Eve does today.
CCP are well aware of this, I believe the general consensus amongst CCP staff is that they're not willing to "sell out" and change the nature of Eve in order to compete in the more mainstream market.

Niche products, they're a thing.


The content created over the last few years looks like the caving on this stance. They have lost money and laid off a lot of people over the last few years. They might not have a choice I haven't spoken to them. I did listen to the lead designers interview, read through all the old polygon layoff announcements.

I found it was interesting where his priorities were or what seemed to get him excited but it didn't build confidence in the direction he is taking. CCP seems to be more fragile then ever, makes me sad.

Also sad that another dev team today got shut down with old friends on it today, nothing to do with CCP but hearing that friends are looking for work with families always makes me sad. The real world is much harsher then Eve.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#151 - 2015-09-08 04:16:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Verstal wrote:
Reason for starting with Eve is that I love Eve as is but its not a model that produces enough money for todays game market it really never did.
Yet CCP are still in business, and they appear to be relatively happy with the money that they make.
And they should be, they are making a good living. Why risk that on some get-rich-quick fad? Iceland want's long-term jobs, specialized jobs that don't come easy for a small country. CCP is basically an indie game company, no big investors or corporate publishing office telling them what to do and how to please those investors with quick money before a shutdown and move to some other job... which could mean ex-employees leaving Iceland to do so. They seem to like what they do just for the sake of doing it, sets them apart from most game companies of today.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc
Templis CALSF
#152 - 2015-09-08 04:22:45 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Verstal wrote:
Reason for starting with Eve is that I love Eve as is but its not a model that produces enough money for todays game market it really never did.
Yet CCP are still in business, and they appear to be relatively happy with the money that they make.
And they should be, they are making a good living. Why risk that on some get-rich-quick fad? Iceland want's long-term jobs, specialized jobs that don't come easy for a small country. CCP is basically an indie game company, no big investors or corporate publishing office telling them what to do and how to please those investors with quick money before a shutdown and move to some other job... which could mean ex-employees leaving Iceland to do so. They seem to like what they do just for the sake of doing it, sets them apart from most game companies of today.


Yes please. I don't want no EA-style takeover of CCP and then proceeding to **** over the entire game with F2P and gold ships and ammo then shutting it down a year or two later because it isn't "producing enough revenue".

I love the EVE right now because I can't actually play on it every day like I used to and I can basically be even with my peers the moment I log on because of the skill system. ISK is basically free for me anyways with my style of flying.P

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#153 - 2015-09-08 06:44:05 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Verstal wrote:
Reason for starting with Eve is that I love Eve as is but its not a model that produces enough money for todays game market it really never did.
Yet CCP are still in business, and they appear to be relatively happy with the money that they make.
And they should be, they are making a good living. Why risk that on some get-rich-quick fad? Iceland want's long-term jobs, specialized jobs that don't come easy for a small country. CCP is basically an indie game company, no big investors or corporate publishing office telling them what to do and how to please those investors with quick money before a shutdown and move to some other job... which could mean ex-employees leaving Iceland to do so. They seem to like what they do just for the sake of doing it, sets them apart from most game companies of today.


You should look into owns and sits on the board of CCP, the Swiss banking investment firm is very large.

What you are talking about has already been happening to CCP employees for the last 6 years. Do a search for CCP games layoffs.

Also if you want to educate yourself more someone published an interesting article about World of Darkness development.

You can see the interviews with x CCP employees who have first hand knowledge of the day to day development process.

Read and listen to all that decide for yourself.

Having witnessed the game in the last few weeks I have issue with some of the decisions but also recognize the improvements compared to when I started.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#154 - 2015-09-08 07:35:27 UTC
The VC's wrote:
To be fair, CCP would make more money on skins if most of the skins weren't so crap.


Or if combat involved actually looking at ships and not zooming out till they're invisible and playing the overview.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#155 - 2015-09-08 07:52:50 UTC
Verstal wrote:
The content created over the last few years looks like the caving on this stance. They have lost money and laid off a lot of people over the last few years. They might not have a choice I haven't spoken to them. I did listen to the lead designers interview, read through all the old polygon layoff announcements.

I found it was interesting where his priorities were or what seemed to get him excited but it didn't build confidence in the direction he is taking. CCP seems to be more fragile then ever, makes me sad.

Also sad that another dev team today got shut down with old friends on it today, nothing to do with CCP but hearing that friends are looking for work with families always makes me sad. The real world is much harsher then Eve.


When companies make bad strategic decisions (acquisitions, investing in new games that end up failing, over-extending resources) there are real world consequences. Lay-offs are the most obvious one to most of us.

The results of those bad decisions (that mostly did not relate to EVE) do not mean EVE, or the subscription model, is broken. They do mean that CCP senior management made some bad decisions over the past few years, many relating to other projects, and CCP staff paid the price. Welcome to the real world.

"Free-to-play" is totally different commercial model and one almost universally rejected by this community, mostly down to the "pay to win" aspect of it. Which even the most cursory of skims of numerous threads would show you. It could also introduce a potentially huge degree of volatility/variability into CCP's revenue stream, especially for a PC-only game. Investors (and accountants) generally don't like that. Bad for things like making payroll.

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#156 - 2015-09-08 08:07:05 UTC
Verstal wrote:


You should look into owns and sits on the board of CCP, the Swiss banking investment firm is very large.

What you are talking about has already been happening to CCP employees for the last 6 years. Do a search for CCP games layoffs.

Also if you want to educate yourself more someone published an interesting article about World of Darkness development.

You can see the interviews with x CCP employees who have first hand knowledge of the day to day development process.

Read and listen to all that decide for yourself.

Having witnessed the game in the last few weeks I have issue with some of the decisions but also recognize the improvements compared to when I started.

CCP is a private company. Swiss banking? You speaking of the 20m bond on Dust? That was paid back, CCP isn't listed any longer, again. A very good move imo.

Layoffs happened after the incarna fiasco, followed by the Jita riots. There has also been hard financial times with the Icelandic bank, was world news in fact. I don't care what angry ex-employees have to say, if they were even actually employees, can never be sure with the interwebs. WoD was a failure, the WiS code used that almost killed EVE, leaked screenshots of WoD testing showing they could hardly get a few characters into a given area, just like EVE:WiS. What makes you think I haven't been reading and listening?

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#157 - 2015-09-08 08:41:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Double post

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#158 - 2015-09-08 08:42:58 UTC
Verstal wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Verstal wrote:
Reason for starting with Eve is that I love Eve as is but its not a model that produces enough money for todays game market it really never did.
Yet CCP are still in business, and they appear to be relatively happy with the money that they make.
Quote:
The game will end up being very different then what you are playing right now but it would make more money then Eve does today.
CCP are well aware of this, I believe the general consensus amongst CCP staff is that they're not willing to "sell out" and change the nature of Eve in order to compete in the more mainstream market.

Niche products, they're a thing.


The content created over the last few years looks like the caving on this stance. They have lost money and laid off a lot of people over the last few years. They might not have a choice I haven't spoken to them. I did listen to the lead designers interview, read through all the old polygon layoff announcements.

I found it was interesting where his priorities were or what seemed to get him excited but it didn't build confidence in the direction he is taking. CCP seems to be more fragile then ever, makes me sad.

Also sad that another dev team today got shut down with old friends on it today, nothing to do with CCP but hearing that friends are looking for work with families always makes me sad. The real world is much harsher then Eve.


Buying back all the shares from investors is not a sign of losing money so stop talking rubbish. when eve goes f2p thats when they are losing money

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#159 - 2015-09-08 11:19:23 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:


I'd recommend your friends stop trying to negotiate for more and either take or leave what's offered.


or get better friends
Tweaker083
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2015-09-08 11:38:14 UTC
The reason it is not F2P keeps me playing.
Cant imagine all the F2P Trolls in this game there would be and even more Jita spammers.... o.O

If you dont wanna pay money for it, play something else or get PLEX with ISK.