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Would it be possible for CCP to make Eve Online free to play?

First post
Author
Tiberius Mathusia
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2015-09-07 08:22:11 UTC
If people aren't willing to pay to play this game then it's probably just not the game for them. There are other MMO'S I'm unwilling to pay to play which are perfectly good games but just not right for me.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2015-09-07 08:22:33 UTC
these forums are starting to get a bit like a free2play game, same sh!ty posts day in day out. its like a total grind reading the same threads over and over again

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2015-09-07 09:38:46 UTC  |  Edited by: The VC's
Pryce Caesar wrote:

Some of us either do not have or do not want that kind of luxury involved in the game. I find it would be more satisfying to earn the ISK in-game in order to be able to buy PLEX and extend your game time.

As for us "nullbear shut-ins", you probably should take about 20-40 hours off of your projections, since I've heard that the high-experienced Null-Sec players with the proper skills can rake in 100 million ISK/hour off of anomalies alone (or hit the jackpot, like I once did. Lol)

Essentially, one just has to set some time aside throughout the week, and they can rake in the amount of ISK necessary to buy PLEX easy (if only it wasn't so expensive. Cry)


I've heard those high-end null sec players too.

In my experience those tales of 100 mill an hour are more accurately "I made 100 mil an hour once, but usually it's more like 30 mill". To stand any chance of a high tick you need an expensive and luxurious ratting carrier setup or similar which you probably wouldn't want anyway.

The idea of your endgame being grinding isk to pay for your account so you can keep grinding isk to pay for your account.... has just always seemed a bit daft to me. Setting time aside IRL is a significantly better isk/hr ratio.

I'm a PVP'r. I like flying ships and getting them exploded after a GF, not shooting red crosses. My usual business plan has me subbing with cash normally with an occasional plex purchase which I then use to seed a market somewhere. This then makes my bought plex last a whole lot longer. I always plan on taking my profits and reseeding the market but I never do. It just gets spunked away on more explosions. I'm more interested in a good isk/hassle ratio. My market setup makes me either 1.4 mill isk/hour every hour weather I'm logged or not, or in terms of actual time at keyboard around 500 mill an hour. That's a great tick.

But hey, I fly frigs and dessys. I'm sure one of the reasons those guys spend time ratting in carriers is because they can sit in the carrier they invested so much time and isk into.


ed. and to add to the op. For a game that is over 10 years old Eve is still ahead of it's time. The idea of 'the sandbox' (a true one) still hasn't made it to the mainstream and Eve will certainly be a niche game until it does.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#124 - 2015-09-07 10:13:41 UTC
Kiandoshia wrote:
Eve is free to play.

Am I doing it right?

confirmed you're indeed doing it right. Roll
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#125 - 2015-09-07 10:31:22 UTC  |  Edited by: xxxTRUSTxxx
Verstal wrote:


as soon as they find out about the training time they get discouraged



this is the first indication that they will not enjoy EVE and will spend most of their time on the forums screaming for shorter training times. they'll never be happy. wrong game for these people, a pity but that's just how it is.

Verstal wrote:

subscriptions fees -- most are great gamers do the calculations and just go this isn't worth my time or effort or money.


this is the second indication that they will not enjoy EVE and will spend most of their time on the forums screaming about (insert random idea we've had a thousands times) . they'll never be happy. wrong game for these people, again a pity.

Verstal wrote:

Then I am left with people that are "I will afk train for my trial account and if I dont see anything I like in a few weeks after training I will not play it."


sounds like people who are not interested in playing EVE. no amount of skills or ships will keep these people. they are not even interested in logging in to play.

Verstal wrote:

So I have been trying to think of a way for CCP to keep these people, they are good gamers, they are ready to spend money, and are excited about being in a space MMO.


they are not ready to spend money as you stated above --- "most are great gamers do the calculations and just go this isn't worth my time or effort or money"

Verstal wrote:

I tell them they could buy characters with isk for plex's most don't want this they want to create a character they feel they started and own, named etc.


they want a a new character but want it full of win from day one,,,,, hahahahahahahaRoll (having high skill points and lots of shiny ships doesn't make you full of win) they don't understand how the game works and perhaps you're at fault in explaining this.

you've just got to understand that EVE is not for all, then everything will be ok Roll
Captain Awkward
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2015-09-07 11:25:11 UTC
So your friends have money and are willing to spend it, but they dont want to pay the subscription ?

That ... makes no sense.

Your real complain is that your friends dont start at the same skillpoint level as a 10 year old player. Thats a totally different thing than your topic stays. IF EvE would go F2P it would change nothing about the fact that your friends still start in a frig.

CCP allready stated that new player starting skillpoints are to low and will likely be buffed in the near future. But this will not be as mutch as you hope it will be.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#127 - 2015-09-07 13:01:38 UTC
Nothing is free.

End of lesson.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2015-09-07 13:31:33 UTC
I've never really played any so my question truly comes from a place of sincere naivety.

How can the experience of a free to play game be any good without spending money for the add-ons?
Black Panpher
CastleKickers
#129 - 2015-09-07 13:42:31 UTC
I'm going to play demons avocado here and I'm not saying I think eve should be free to play or that a agree with that concept but....

Some of the most successful of games out now are f2p and NOT p2w and i bet they make way more bank than CCP.
Non-p2w micro transactions are def the way to go but ATM CCP are terrible at them so that wouldn't work for eve.
Black Panpher
CastleKickers
#130 - 2015-09-07 13:46:29 UTC
The VC's wrote:
I've never really played any so my question truly comes from a place of sincere naivety.

How can the experience of a free to play game be any good without spending money for the add-ons?


Take league of legends for example everything can be obtained through gaining points in game, the only things that cost real money are skins and champions if you don't wish to buy them with earned in game points.

I know players with thousands of hours who have all the champs and not dropped a penny on the game because the game itself is supported by the many other people who enjoy spending money on skins.
Nou Mene
Krypted Gaming
#131 - 2015-09-07 13:48:16 UTC
Cmon a subscription is USD$15 a month, im pretty sure you spend more on beers one night out. If you are unwilling to pay that for something that gives you entertainment (at least to me it does) almost daily for some hours then EvE its indeed not for you. I mean.. how much is cable (or similar) TV this days?
Then, there are many ways to do 50-100 m/hr in this game, that could make it free to play actually. But plexes are still going up.

Anyway, I do support helping new players to get in at least one useful role/ship quickly. Right now there is a lot of strong low skill ships.

Greetings.
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2015-09-07 15:40:36 UTC  |  Edited by: The VC's
Black Panpher wrote:
The VC's wrote:
I've never really played any so my question truly comes from a place of sincere naivety.

How can the experience of a free to play game be any good without spending money for the add-ons?


Take league of legends for example everything can be obtained through gaining points in game, the only things that cost real money are skins and champions if you don't wish to buy them with earned in game points.

I know players with thousands of hours who have all the champs and not dropped a penny on the game because the game itself is supported by the many other people who enjoy spending money on skins.



Thanks for a good answer.

I've messed about on Planetside for a bit but that's about it. It was fun. You do start with a char that has some reasonable effectiveness and the scaling up distance doesn't seem that much compared to eve from what I saw. Plus the objectives were pretty straightforward and proscribed so starting with a decent amount of agency didn't seem that dangerous. Unlike eve though.

Giving new players enough power for satisfying agency seems like a good idea until you realise that giving experienced players with new alts that power is a very bad idea indeed. And doing that in a universe where the players develop new goals faster than the devs can keep up things would get out of hand pretty quick.

Idk, Eve isn't really the ships or the mechanics. That's all just substrate for the real game which is pitting your plans and schemes against another real live human soul. Not button mashing or min/maxing ingame items. I don't really know how that concept could be expressed to a new player coming in cold and it's not the stuff that usually translates well in any marketing. The this is eve vid is the best go yet but it's quite a big idea for a console generation.

Also, I don't think many players are mentally equipped to handle the notion of a game where it's possible to lose your shirt no matter how long you've been playing or how big your swag is.
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#133 - 2015-09-07 15:48:15 UTC
May Arethusa wrote:
Quote:
jump on to Eve and try to remember where all the buttons are


What kind of elite, top 5 percentile gamer forgets where F1 is on their keyboard? I guess standards are much lower in other games.


The interface for Eve online is very deep for new players, and you have in station, in space versions. Compare Eve's interface to LoL, Dota2, GO, or CoD, these games are not MMO's but are popular now compare the layout of most MMO to Eve, most are ripped off from Wow and changed for that particular game, the differences are easy to spot if you are familiar with Wow, transition is smooth for most people. Eve is very unique.

Pretend you know nothing of the game start opening windows.

But this is another good point, removing the windows and neocom buttons for new player so they have 2 or 3 instead of 10 choices which are revealed in a staged manor as events or tasks appeared would be less intimidating to new players and allow them to learn each window as its needed based on the new event system.

Channel
People and places
Wallet
Ship fitting

Could be good starter choices or design a system to base the choices on the type of rookie mission picked. Reveal buttons as they are required.
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#134 - 2015-09-07 16:00:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Verstal
Black Panpher wrote:
I'm going to play demons avocado here and I'm not saying I think eve should be free to play or that a agree with that concept but....

Some of the most successful of games out now are f2p and NOT p2w and i bet they make way more bank than CCP.
Non-p2w micro transactions are def the way to go but ATM CCP are terrible at them so that wouldn't work for eve.


Yes a game like Dota2 makes 12.5 mil a day, LoL 32mil a day these are world wide numbers. You cant pay to win them, only vanity items, if you want to buy boosts then you can play to get to a level 30 skill cap faster which allows for ranked play and full rune pages.

League is not a easy game to learn either you get yelled at the entire time as you go up to level 20 before the yelling slows, but you aren't paying for this experience, most of my friends I have taught about LoL get hooked on one free character then when the free trial ends after a week they miss playing them so much they open their wallet to keep that champ and get a skin the like for it.

They rotate the free champs once a week and give you I think 7, Dota2 gives you all the champs at the start 120 and you buy vanity items created by the player community, so if you are artist you can sell your cool "hat" or sword you made and people will vote on it to get it into the shop once in the shop people can buy it for real money. So in Dota2 some people actually making money from making content for it.

Some people in Eve managed to make real world money off the content, but this was the made possible by exploits not a system designed by CCP.

How much do you think CCP makes per year based on the data that is public?
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2015-09-07 16:02:09 UTC  |  Edited by: The VC's
Verstal wrote:
May Arethusa wrote:
Quote:
jump on to Eve and try to remember where all the buttons are


What kind of elite, top 5 percentile gamer forgets where F1 is on their keyboard? I guess standards are much lower in other games.


The interface for Eve online is very deep for new players, and you have in station, in space versions. Compare Eve's interface to LoL, Dota2, GO, or CoD, these games are not MMO's but are popular now compare the layout of most MMO to Eve, most are ripped off from Wow and changed for that particular game, the differences are easy to spot if you are familiar with Wow, transition is smooth for most people. Eve is very unique.

Pretend you know nothing of the game start opening windows.

But this is another good point, removing the windows and neocom buttons for new player so they have 2 or 3 instead of 10 choices which are revealed in a staged manor as events or tasks appeared would be less intimidating to new players and allow them to learn each window as its needed based on the new event system.

Channel
People and places
Wallet
Ship fitting

Could be good starter choices or design a system to base the choices on the type of rookie mission picked. Reveal buttons as they are required.


That probably could be made to work, although it may also hinder learning too and require more of a lengthy induction process. That in itself may end up making eve seem impenetrable again.

I suppose it's a lot like booting up Photoshop or Autocad for the first time (which I do teach to students on occasion). I usually start the classes by saying that it seems overwhelming, all those functions. There is an urge to poke at them all, which usually ends up with you making a hash of things or burning out. The way the need to approach it is to set a goal, decide what it is they want to change or alter and then just find and focus in on the functions that will do that. It takes effort to block out all the other icons and potentialities.

I would say a case could be made for CCP employing professional group leaders (outreach) to get newbro in fleets and doing stuff. Regular rookie system fleet form ups and the like. It may seem daft for other games but in eve it could be a hand up. Setting up eve voice should be a priority.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#136 - 2015-09-07 16:14:39 UTC  |  Edited by: xxxTRUSTxxx
Verstal wrote:


How much do you think CCP makes per year based on the data that is public?



concern yourself with playing the game and let CCP worry about their cash flow.

free to play EVE,,,, no fecking thanks. DOTA2 and the likes can keep all the screaming shites and idiots.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#137 - 2015-09-07 16:22:31 UTC
Verstal wrote:

How much do you think CCP makes per year based on the data that is public?


$68.6m revenue; $11m pre-tax profit for 2014.
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#138 - 2015-09-07 16:47:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Verstal wrote:

How much do you think CCP makes per year based on the data that is public?


$68.6m revenue; $11m pre-tax profit for 2014.


Yes Tippia! I found those numbers as well.

One skin in LoL from 3 years ago when the game was smaller made 25 mil in 4 hours during Valentines day for a character named Vanye the skin was sexy hearts named heart seeker Vayne. I got that number directly from a Riot employee, because they were in shock that such a small amount of work on their end could result in that type of revenue generation.

I am using this example not to rub this in CCP's face but to give you a scale, and to express that the model that CCP is using has limitations, you could say its backwards the customer very demanding, the content takes longer to generate and the revenue generation is limited by the players ability to fly ships which could take years of real time training, years of paying a sub, and years of developing methods for isk generation, also add to this you must find a group of players you like to play with that have enough skill and org structure to control some part of 0 space.

Very very tall order, even for an dedicated Eve player top 15% of Eve probably reach this goal which is portrayed in the movies as something that you can do over a weekend of hard playing.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#139 - 2015-09-07 16:57:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Verstal wrote:
Very very tall order, even for an dedicated Eve player top 15% of Eve probably reach this goal which is portrayed in the movies as something that you can do over a weekend of hard playing.

Where on earth did you get that silly idea from, and what does it have to do with anything?
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2015-09-07 17:31:10 UTC
To be fair, CCP would make more money on skins if most of the skins weren't so crap.