These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Galatea] First batch of sov capture iterations

First post First post
Author
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#1261 - 2015-08-29 22:27:53 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:


Arla Sarain wrote:
In FW we have to chase farmers and it's irritating to do, just as with trollceptors. Sure it's not glamorous, but someone has to do.
And everyone knows and accepts that FW is broken as ****. Why is it so surprising that taking a broken mechanic and applying it to sov (minus the rewards) makes for a bad system?

Read further.
I did. Adding passive income so it's even more like the broken FW system doesn't make it good. Basically that's a way of saying "we know the gameplay is ****, so have some isk until you shut up about it". The instant reward of interacting with the sov system should be enjoying the actual mechanic itself.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Arla Sarain
#1262 - 2015-08-29 23:10:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Lucas Kell wrote:
Arla Sarain wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:


Arla Sarain wrote:
In FW we have to chase farmers and it's irritating to do, just as with trollceptors. Sure it's not glamorous, but someone has to do.
And everyone knows and accepts that FW is broken as ****. Why is it so surprising that taking a broken mechanic and applying it to sov (minus the rewards) makes for a bad system?

Read further.
I did. Adding passive income so it's even more like the broken FW system doesn't make it good. Basically that's a way of saying "we know the gameplay is ****, so have some isk until you shut up about it". The instant reward of interacting with the sov system should be enjoying the actual mechanic itself.

WTF are you talking about.
What passive income is there in FW and how does it make it broken?

Jeebus
So much knee jerking.

Passive rewards are there to allow sov owners autonomy - something no other gameplay apart from POSs and PI allow. The luxury of not having to worry about rewards and hence concentrate on other everyday activities would make chasing trollceptors like a casual trip to the fridge to get a snack. It's not enjoyable, but if nothing else is going on and I don't need to crab, might as well make an elaborate trap for the guy who keeps sending the notifications my way... meanwhile my wallet fattens.

But you'd obviously rather **** and whine and draw parallels previously unheard of, because well, they are a product of herd mentality, sourced by those who are the loudest but with the least clue.
Harry Saq
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1263 - 2015-08-30 05:45:29 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
...something dumb

WTF are you talking about.
Lucas can't read, yet posts.....alot, you'll get used to it.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1264 - 2015-08-30 05:54:14 UTC
Kystraz wrote:
Everything would be better if jump freighters had a 5 LY range cap so people that lived in their space and produced locally had a logistical advantage.

CCP please go through with this much needed change, like you originally wanted to. Stop the power projection enabled by 10 LY jump freighters!

And how do you want to get necessary T2 moon minerals that you cannot grab from local moons into your remote area, such as deep Drone Lands, Esoteria, Stain, Tenal, Fountain, Omist? Via 5LY jumps in your JF? Via wormholes? People can't even be asked to protect miners in Null sec or to rat to get indexes up or patrol their space with nothing happening, many people can't even be asked to scan systems for sites/WHs regularly without any compensation or report WHs finds. And you expect them to produce locally?

In my opinion, a lot more things need to change than just cutting JF range to 5 LY. This useless clusterwide war over minerals needs to turn into a regional war over minerals. Further reads in my thread to the topic. I, however, also agree with linked post from a Nulli Secunda guy in my thread about the problems of local production and logistics, in particular for smaller entities.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#1265 - 2015-08-30 06:32:44 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Kystraz wrote:
Everything would be better if jump freighters had a 5 LY range cap so people that lived in their space and produced locally had a logistical advantage.

CCP please go through with this much needed change, like you originally wanted to. Stop the power projection enabled by 10 LY jump freighters!

And how do you want to get necessary T2 moon minerals that you cannot grab from local moons into your remote area, such as deep Drone Lands, Esoteria, Stain, Tenal, Fountain, Omist?


With Stepping Stones of course!

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1266 - 2015-08-30 07:22:28 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:

WTF are you talking about.
What passive income is there in FW and how does it make it broken?

Jeebus
So much knee jerking.

Passive rewards are there to allow sov owners autonomy - something no other gameplay apart from POSs and PI allow. The luxury of not having to worry about rewards and hence concentrate on other everyday activities would make chasing trollceptors like a casual trip to the fridge to get a snack. It's not enjoyable, but if nothing else is going on and I don't need to crab, might as well make an elaborate trap for the guy who keeps sending the notifications my way... meanwhile my wallet fattens.

But you'd obviously rather **** and whine and draw parallels previously unheard of, because well, they are a product of herd mentality, sourced by those who are the loudest but with the least clue.


The problem is that it doesn't solve the issue which is that chasing around evasion fitted ships for hours on end is not fun.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#1267 - 2015-08-30 07:30:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Arla Sarain wrote:

WTF are you talking about.
What passive income is there in FW and how does it make it broken?

Jeebus
So much knee jerking.

Passive rewards are there to allow sov owners autonomy - something no other gameplay apart from POSs and PI allow. The luxury of not having to worry about rewards and hence concentrate on other everyday activities would make chasing trollceptors like a casual trip to the fridge to get a snack. It's not enjoyable, but if nothing else is going on and I don't need to crab, might as well make an elaborate trap for the guy who keeps sending the notifications my way... meanwhile my wallet fattens.

But you'd obviously rather **** and whine and draw parallels previously unheard of, because well, they are a product of herd mentality, sourced by those who are the loudest but with the least clue.


The problem is that it doesn't solve the issue which is that chasing around evasion fitted ships for hours on end is not fun.


Give me a big slug fest instead please...heck even with tidi. P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1268 - 2015-08-30 07:47:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
FT Diomedes wrote:
With Stepping Stones of course!

Even with stepping stones, you cannot get into the very deep areas. Unless you make it a trail like in these Japanese gardens.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#1269 - 2015-08-30 10:07:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Arla Sarain wrote:
WTF are you talking about.
What passive income is there in FW and how does it make it broken?
FW earn you LP, like you pointed out. And it's broken because FW is also incredibly boring and based heavily around orbiting a node and running away. The only people that don't think FW is broken are the people that farm the **** out of it for huge amounts of income.

Edit: And honestly, I'm not sure how you've managed to confuse yourself here. You drew a the parallel to FW, then you suggested the issue was that while both are boring FW earns income while sov lasers do not. You have to be pretty bad at comprehension to be confused by your own posts.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Arla Sarain
#1270 - 2015-08-30 11:07:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Lucas Kell wrote:

You drew a the parallel to FW, then you suggested the issue was that while both are boring FW earns income while sov lasers do not. You have to be pretty bad at comprehension to be confused by your own posts.

These two arguments are not mutually exclusive or contradicting. The two areas of gameplay ARE both boring. FW DOES earn income, but Sov wands DOESN'T. Where is the comprehension failure?

I drew a parallel from trollceptors to farmers, not to "FW". I chase farmers and it used to be painful until I figured out how to do it.

There is nothing to be confused about. The principle is simple - if I was required to commit less time towards making financial capital, I would commit it to something else. If FW had a form of passive income, I'd chase farmers all day. Except it wouldn't work in FW, but not because it's inherently broken. FW access is public, so random people would monopolise on other people's effort.

But it can work in SOV, because contrast to FW, Corps and Alliances determine who becomes a member and therefore who gets to enjoy the passive source of wealth.
KenFlorian
Knight Odds
Trigger Happy.
#1271 - 2015-08-30 15:04:49 UTC
How do I sort this thread on a; number of years in game and b; number of hours played?

I haven't got time to do anything more or less than that.
Philip Ogtaulmolfi
We are not bad. Just unlucky
#1272 - 2015-08-30 15:17:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
The problem is that it doesn't solve the issue which is that chasing around evasion fitted ships for hours on end is not fun.


I still don't understand why people chase ceptors. You just undock an alt when they have been capturing for 50 minutes and ECM them.

No chasing implied.

Arla Sarain
#1273 - 2015-08-30 15:57:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Philip Ogtaulmolfi wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The problem is that it doesn't solve the issue which is that chasing around evasion fitted ships for hours on end is not fun.


I still don't understand why people chase ceptors. You just undock an alt when they have been capturing for 50 minutes and ECM them.

No chasing implied.


Apparently entosis capture does not decay same way FW plex timers don't rollback.

Also persistence. It causes people to babysit anything entosisable. Entosis mechanics whilst solid in principle, detract from the primary sov gameplay. Monetising sov requires that players engage activities completely unrelated to its defense and protection, which requires that someone takes one for the team and makes sure the trollceptors don't ninja the occupants sov.
Philip Ogtaulmolfi
We are not bad. Just unlucky
#1274 - 2015-08-30 17:36:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Philip Ogtaulmolfi
After testing the new timers to capture nodes I think that this solution is not good enough.

24 minutes is a short time for the effort to raise a system to ADM 6, if you are willing to defend it.

At the same time, is a lot of time to sit idle as attacker if nobody shows up to defend.

I think that the best system would be one where each cycle is faster than the precedent, so if you are hacking a node unmolested it shouldn't take more than 10 minutes to cap a node, for an ADM 6 system, as attacker. And also a reduced time for the defender.

This would also favour T2 entosis greatly, rewarding the investment in those expensive modules.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#1275 - 2015-08-30 19:33:56 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
There is nothing to be confused about.
Then why are you confused?

Arla Sarain wrote:
But it can work in SOV, because contrast to FW, Corps and Alliances determine who becomes a member and therefore who gets to enjoy the passive source of wealth.
Again, adding passive income doesn;t fix the crappy mechanic, it just gives you a reason to put up with it. Like I said earlier, it's a way of saying "we know the gameplay is ****, so have some isk until you shut up about it". The fix is to make sov capture mechanics fun in themselves, not to just blindly add passive income until people are earning too much to want any changes.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Arla Sarain
#1276 - 2015-08-30 23:28:23 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Arla Sarain wrote:
There is nothing to be confused about.
Then why are you confused?

We playing THAT game?

Maybe your confusion is causing a loop that breeds your falsehood about me being confused.

Stop being confused bro.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#1277 - 2015-08-30 23:56:34 UTC
Uhh, OK. If you say so. P
I'm playing no game though. As far as I can see you legitimately confused yourself. I note your selective quoting has missed out the actual point though so conclude that you are in fact a troll, so I think I'll just ignore you and move on.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1278 - 2015-08-31 07:35:52 UTC
Philip Ogtaulmolfi wrote:


I still don't understand why people chase ceptors. You just undock an alt when they have been capturing for 50 minutes and ECM them.

No chasing implied.



We already went over ECM and its at best just a boring at worst useless.

We want more fights, more roaming gangs, more content. Your solution is just as boring as chasing off the ceptor.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1279 - 2015-08-31 09:23:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


We want more fights, more roaming gangs, more content.


No ... you don't. You want impenetrable Fortress Goon where you can nullbear your lives away.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Philip Ogtaulmolfi
We are not bad. Just unlucky
#1280 - 2015-08-31 09:28:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Philip Ogtaulmolfi
baltec1 wrote:
Philip Ogtaulmolfi wrote:


I still don't understand why people chase ceptors. You just undock an alt when they have been capturing for 50 minutes and ECM them.

No chasing implied.



We already went over ECM and its at best just a boring at worst useless.

We want more fights, more roaming gangs, more content. Your solution is just as boring as chasing off the ceptor.



If you troll the trollceptors, they will stop coming. And that's what you will get if in ten minutes you destroy more than an hour investment in the part of the trollceptor. Weaponizing of boredom, I know, but time is in the part of the defender, not the attacker, so I don't see the need to nerf the ceptors. Let the children something to play with.

The enemy coming in force to create some content is a completely different matter. And that's really the problem. It seems there is a lot of people in EVE that doesn't wont to fight.

And, as the strongest group in EVE, it is unprovable that somebody comes to invade, so the way to go is the Provi way.