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[Galatea] First batch of sov capture iterations

First post First post
Author
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#441 - 2015-08-19 16:36:49 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Just read the original post. All of that sounds great till you realize that the underlying system is the thing that is bad, not individual mechanics or issues.

The problem is that this system is tantamount to CCP going "you know what, screw it" after 12 years of advertising huge space battles. Now we have a system to bends null sec into a crappier copy of faction warfare low sec.

They literally took a system that could be equal parts boredom (structure grinding) and Epicness and made it ALL boring (and then counted that as a win). I thought the change (ie massive over-reaction) from POS based sov to dominion was bad, but this one is worse, at least Dominion preserved the spirit of 0.0 space fighting.

This new system is EASIER to defend, my wallets have never been so fat from null sec isk, but Aegis SOV has sucked the 'awesome' out of the game. For some reason, some people think the opposition is about not liking change, or not wanting to adapt, or losing. But we HAVE all adapted , and no one of consequence has lost anything..

Dominion was only occasionally fun (while being heart breaking, I was in NCDot when Goons kicked us out of Tribute, didn't want that region anyways), Aegis is no fun at all..

In the grand scheme of life it's not a big deal however, and hell, we survived 6 years of the badness that was Dominion, we can survive another 6 years till CCP realizes that this one sucks too...undoubtedly after more inevitable personnel changes lol. But the ability to survive a bad situation doesn't make that situation any less bad.


There was nothing awesome about sitting in 10% TIDI, clicking your mods over and over again, wondering if they are going to to actually function.

There was nothing awesome about being sitting on a Titan for hours then told that fleet is cancelled yet again because the rallying cry of a certain alliance leader was "no fun allowed"

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#442 - 2015-08-19 16:37:25 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
Spacial Girl wrote:
Balthusdire Dominus wrote:
The speed limitation while helpful doesn't solve the underlying problem of no risk to an attacker.

Good to see things moving forward. I think fozzie sov can be fun, just needs some more work.


They'll still be unable to warp, and attackers can feast on their 4k/ms souls. Any reasonably fit ceptor/T3dessi should catch them.


Wrong, have you heard about grid mechanics? Have you even noticed that in the amount of time for the hostile to enter system and land on the sov structure grid, the trollceptor is either very close to breaking grid and disappearing or has already disappeared from the grid?

Yeah.



It'll take about 90s +/- to break grid at 4k/s. It's catchable.

But the mass penalty NEEDS to come back. Legitimately instant aligning intys will actually be even worse.
Hendrink Collie
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#443 - 2015-08-19 16:37:47 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
Spacial Girl wrote:
Balthusdire Dominus wrote:
The speed limitation while helpful doesn't solve the underlying problem of no risk to an attacker.

Good to see things moving forward. I think fozzie sov can be fun, just needs some more work.


They'll still be unable to warp, and attackers can feast on their 4k/ms souls. Any reasonably fit ceptor/T3dessi should catch them.


Wrong, have you heard about grid mechanics? Have you even noticed that in the amount of time for the hostile to enter system and land on the sov structure grid, the trollceptor is either very close to breaking grid and disappearing or has already disappeared from the grid?

Yeah.


Really it depends on the grid. One of the first days of Aegis Sov I went about chasing trollceptors with my nano cynabal... usually the grid is more than big enough to not have that issue. Problems arouse if the ship was going 10k+ though. 4k should really help curb the lack of kills. HOWEVER, 4k orths on the edge of grid will still be an issue..... at least they are catchable now. Smile
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#444 - 2015-08-19 16:37:50 UTC
Hendrink Collie wrote:

Actually, I have an opinion about the siphons. They would have been a cool harassment tool in theory; however, CCP decided to allow API data track whenever a siphon was set up on a POS. One of the dumbest decisions ever, since it allowed groups to idly track for siphons without keeping an eye on the POS. Totally killed the siphon as a proper harassment tool.


That was changed because, unlike now, CCP realized that any mechanic that forces people to babysit structures is something that should not exist.

Babysitting structures is poison. It is neither using, nor living in your space, its a time tax to park a character at a particular spot while doing nothing. EVE needs players, not just people logged in.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#445 - 2015-08-19 16:40:05 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Spacial Girl wrote:
Balthusdire Dominus wrote:
The speed limitation while helpful doesn't solve the underlying problem of no risk to an attacker.

Good to see things moving forward. I think fozzie sov can be fun, just needs some more work.


They'll still be unable to warp, and attackers can feast on their 4k/ms souls. Any reasonably fit ceptor/T3dessi should catch them.


Wrong, have you heard about grid mechanics? Have you even noticed that in the amount of time for the hostile to enter system and land on the sov structure grid, the trollceptor is either very close to breaking grid and disappearing or has already disappeared from the grid?

Yeah.



It'll take about 90s +/- to break grid at 4k/s. It's catchable.

But the mass penalty NEEDS to come back. Legitimately instant aligning intys will actually be even worse.


And it will, on average, take a hostile to land on that sov structure grid at least 30 seconds. With that lead, escape is almost certain unless the trollceptor wasn't watching local and failed stop orbiting and align away in a certain direction.
Hendrink Collie
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#446 - 2015-08-19 16:40:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Hendrink Collie
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Just read the original post. All of that sounds great till you realize that the underlying system is the thing that is bad, not individual mechanics or issues.

The problem is that this system is tantamount to CCP going "you know what, screw it" after 12 years of advertising huge space battles. Now we have a system to bends null sec into a crappier copy of faction warfare low sec.

They literally took a system that could be equal parts boredom (structure grinding) and Epicness and made it ALL boring (and then counted that as a win). I thought the change (ie massive over-reaction) from POS based sov to dominion was bad, but this one is worse, at least Dominion preserved the spirit of 0.0 space fighting.

This new system is EASIER to defend, my wallets have never been so fat from null sec isk, but Aegis SOV has sucked the 'awesome' out of the game. For some reason, some people think the opposition is about not liking change, or not wanting to adapt, or losing. But we HAVE all adapted , and no one of consequence has lost anything..

Dominion was only occasionally fun (while being heart breaking, I was in NCDot when Goons kicked us out of Tribute, didn't want that region anyways), Aegis is no fun at all..

In the grand scheme of life it's not a big deal however, and hell, we survived 6 years of the badness that was Dominion, we can survive another 6 years till CCP realizes that this one sucks too...undoubtedly after more inevitable personnel changes lol. But the ability to survive a bad situation doesn't make that situation any less bad.


There was nothing awesome about sitting in 10% TIDI, clicking your mods over and over again, wondering if they are going to to actually function.

There was nothing awesome about being sitting on a Titan for hours then told that fleet is cancelled yet again because the rallying cry of a certain alliance leader was "no fun allowed"



The whole fascade of 4k person mega battles sounds fun and amazing until you live through it, especially as a run-o-a-mill F1 monkey. Sure, fleet commanders and people with special jobs likely had a kick out of it.... but for the button pushers that drove the dps or had to clear tackle, it was pure hell.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#447 - 2015-08-19 16:43:27 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Spacial Girl wrote:
Balthusdire Dominus wrote:
The speed limitation while helpful doesn't solve the underlying problem of no risk to an attacker.

Good to see things moving forward. I think fozzie sov can be fun, just needs some more work.


They'll still be unable to warp, and attackers can feast on their 4k/ms souls. Any reasonably fit ceptor/T3dessi should catch them.


Wrong, have you heard about grid mechanics? Have you even noticed that in the amount of time for the hostile to enter system and land on the sov structure grid, the trollceptor is either very close to breaking grid and disappearing or has already disappeared from the grid?

Yeah.



It'll take about 90s +/- to break grid at 4k/s. It's catchable.

But the mass penalty NEEDS to come back. Legitimately instant aligning intys will actually be even worse.


And it will, on average, take a hostile to land on that sov structure grid at least 30 seconds. With that lead, escape is almost certain unless the trollceptor wasn't watching local and failed stop orbiting and align away in a certain direction.


It is far from certain as you'll be able to go (significantly) faster.

What it is going to come down to, is how long the cycle has to go and how fast they are able to actually warp.
Hendrink Collie
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#448 - 2015-08-19 16:45:19 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hendrink Collie wrote:

Actually, I have an opinion about the siphons. They would have been a cool harassment tool in theory; however, CCP decided to allow API data track whenever a siphon was set up on a POS. One of the dumbest decisions ever, since it allowed groups to idly track for siphons without keeping an eye on the POS. Totally killed the siphon as a proper harassment tool.


That was changed because, unlike now, CCP realized that any mechanic that forces people to babysit structures is something that should not exist.

Babysitting structures is poison. It is neither using, nor living in your space, its a time tax to park a character at a particular spot while doing nothing. EVE needs players, not just people logged in.


Who says you have to baby sit the structure? No one is making .... well, for most of us no one is making you visit that structure every day. Just stop by occasionally. If there is troll issues, put more defenses on the structure and visit more often until the troll goes away. I don't see why something that was made to be a harassment tactic (and possible a solid one at that) was made essentially useless because it can be easily tracked using API.

At this point, they might as well be deleted, and that's sad because they had so much potential. What?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#449 - 2015-08-19 16:46:27 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:

There was nothing awesome about sitting in 10% TIDI, clicking your mods over and over again, wondering if they are going to to actually function.

There was nothing awesome about being sitting on a Titan for hours then told that fleet is cancelled yet again because the rallying cry of a certain alliance leader was "no fun allowed"


Considering your corp has only been in an Imperium alliance for 6 months, I call bullshit on this anecdote.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#450 - 2015-08-19 16:46:33 UTC
gascanu wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
Cat silth wrote:
More boring spining round a structures , give me something to shoot for gods sake , fozzie sov is boring lets creat content , not


Okay I don't get this reasoning. Litterally the only difference between shooting and entosising in this game currently is the sound and visual effect of the weapon. When you're sieging a structure with 8 guns you're still orbiting and pressing F1, same as now. If they made the Entosis link make a pew pew sound, would that make it more fun for you? Roll

that's the only difference you can see?
how about, for example one big difference is that shooting things give you a killmail while entosing things give you nothing; a killmaill in a pvp game, how about that difference?
should i go on? Roll


Actually I believe that F2 is more commonly pressed while entosisisisising.

So there's actually twice as many things to do.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

Kystraz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#451 - 2015-08-19 16:49:17 UTC
You guys just need to stop playing eve the wrong way, and start playing the way fozzie tells you to.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#452 - 2015-08-19 16:50:36 UTC
Hendrink Collie wrote:

Who says you have to baby sit the structure?


The part where you suggest that the owner have no way of knowing whether they are being siphoned short of actually being there.

They had no vulnerability timer requirements, or anything of the sort. They could be attached any time, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

That's why they were set to have the API show them.


Quote:

At this point, they might as well be deleted, and that's sad because they had so much potential. What?


I would argue that they ought never have been released. They were a flawed concept, much like a lot of the deployables.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#453 - 2015-08-19 16:53:03 UTC
Querns wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:

There was nothing awesome about sitting in 10% TIDI, clicking your mods over and over again, wondering if they are going to to actually function.

There was nothing awesome about being sitting on a Titan for hours then told that fleet is cancelled yet again because the rallying cry of a certain alliance leader was "no fun allowed"


Considering your corp has only been in an Imperium alliance for 6 months, I call bullshit on this anecdote.


I bet you clowns think the sun revolves around you too.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#454 - 2015-08-19 16:54:11 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
There was nothing awesome about sitting in 10% TIDI, clicking your mods over and over again, wondering if they are going to to actually function.

There was nothing awesome about being sitting on a Titan for hours then told that fleet is cancelled yet again because the rallying cry of a certain alliance leader was "no fun allowed"
In both cases Uncle Suas was awesome.

And there's nothing awesome about the current system either. Mining structures? Come on...

Their focus should be on encouraging more of the good large fights, less of the "DIE SERVERS DIE" fights and making the system work well. Instead they've basically admitted that the main thing their game had over others - having massive fleet battles - is dead.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#455 - 2015-08-19 16:54:14 UTC
Tallardar wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
I agree, null has been stagnant, that's why we've all agreed that a change is needed. Unfortunately that change is seemingly an attempt to make it even less likely that a large scale battle will occur.


Right, except no one was close to doing that nor trying to for over a year before the sov changes came out anyway.

Fozziesov isn't the sole reason those battles aren't occurring. The players have to be willing to throw their fleets at one another, and presently it appears that's not happening because of a lack of value in winning whatever systems or regions. Since the current sov system is less than 8 weeks old, I'm willing to give CCP time to implement changes to make the systems valuable enough in terms of natural resources.

That should have been done first before this tweak to Fozziesov though.


here is the real issue I think.

Most alliances are not short or resources or isk. the biggest like PL or Goons have more isk then they know what to do with. Many vet players seem to be extremely rich.

I think resources need to be more scarce so people fight over them again. They also need to deplete over time. Moon-mining needs to cease to be an AFK activity.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

bigbillthaboss3
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#456 - 2015-08-19 16:58:32 UTC
What in the hell goes 4km/s besides an interceptor? So since someone decides to come troll sov in a single ship we have to bring multiple ships including boosters? Why do ships need to move to capture something anyway??


Entosis links should make you park your ass right where you started the process, like you lit a cyno. This will generate those ~gud fites~ you are wanting, forcing people to bring more ships for reinforcement/reps and creating a single point for a battle.


There was a story of a game in which the developers didn't listen to their consumers. The players offered helpful feedback and solutions to problems the game had given rise to. The devs didn't listen, and by the time they finally realized "oh wait, they are the people that bring our revenue!" it was too late. That game was Diablo 3. Don't be a Diablo 3.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#457 - 2015-08-19 16:59:02 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:

I think resources need to be more scarce so people fight over them again. They also need to deplete over time. Moon-mining needs to cease to be an AFK activity.


No offense, but this is an extremely bad idea. Take the idea to it's logical conclusion.

Existing players are, in your opinion, too wealthy. So if you tightly restrict resources, those players will use their existing wealth and assets to lock down the newly scarce resources, and we'll be right back where we started, except the "have nots" are in an even worse position.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#458 - 2015-08-19 16:59:25 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Tallardar wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
I agree, null has been stagnant, that's why we've all agreed that a change is needed. Unfortunately that change is seemingly an attempt to make it even less likely that a large scale battle will occur.


Right, except no one was close to doing that nor trying to for over a year before the sov changes came out anyway.


This is a bit inaccurate. "Fleet Fights" aren't just Asakai and BR-5 type deals, plenty of fleet fights involve only sub caps, and plenty happened over the coure of the last year. The Mittani website and EVE news detail those kinds of fights all the time.

I've been in only 2 mid sized scraps since Aegis began (one involving my old alliance INIT fighting my new alliance lol). And that's it, the rest have been "Aegis style bullshit Nibble fights" (that phrase shall be copyrighted soon lol). I still find it odd that (from my perspective as someone who likes fleet fights) CCP could take a system of occasional fair sized to big fights and make them less occasional lol.


Is this really the fault of CCP, or the alliance leaders who blue up everything in sight and NIP the rest?

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#459 - 2015-08-19 16:59:39 UTC
Have the newbros kill them:

[Atron, newbro kill farming]
Overdrive Injector System II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II

5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Modal Light Electron Particle Accelerator I, CN Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Electron Particle Accelerator I, CN Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Electron Particle Accelerator I, CN Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Auxiliary Thrusters I
Small Auxiliary Thrusters I
Small Auxiliary Thrusters I



All Meta barring the OD (lol hull upgrades II) and the DC (lol hull upgrades IV).

4743/6781m/s with heat.

Feed the newbros delicious kills Smile
Kystraz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#460 - 2015-08-19 17:04:49 UTC
Oh boy, tech 1 frigates and interceptors. Exactly what I started playing eve for.