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[Galatea] First batch of sov capture iterations

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Author
Reagalan
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#161 - 2015-08-19 02:16:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Reagalan
Arkady Romanov wrote:
Dominion sov was flawed. The investment required to be a player in the Sov game at that time was a massive super fleet.....


This is mostly true, and was a major issue in Dominion, however, multiple exceptions exist.

A great many entities were able to hold space in Dominion sov without the use of supercaps, or even regular caps. They held their space by leveraging comparative advantages or by following strategies other than simple "shooting things". This gave the system very deep and emergent gameplay.

Diplomacy was one of the largest factors. Prior to the rise of the rental empire, the majority of smaller entities got their foot in the door by joining up with established entities, or forming coalitions to challenge established powers. The inherent need to organize such campaigns meant those who put in the effort would reap the rewards. Examples exist throughout the Dominion period. Intrepid Crossing took and held Cobalt Edge due to deals with the old DRF. Parallels exist between the "guests" of the old Northern Coalition and many members of the earlier incarnations of N3. TEST originally was granted Fountain via a diplomatic exchange. Provibloc holds it's space via diplomatic means. The Imperium has always put a high value of diplomacy. Even BRAVE was able to take Catch due to diplomatic relations with N3.

The problems came about because of the rise of the rental empire. Rental empires, however, were a symptom of a much deeper problem. Rental empires did run counter to diplomacy, and worked actively against the ability of smaller entities to leverage diplomatic means to gain sov. Why would you treat with these smaller entities when you can just force them into your rental empire?

Rental empires, however, require an overwhelming military advantage to work. The owners of the space must be able to easily crush any possible opposition that might come against it, without losing too much in the war to make holding and renting the space unprofitable.

This is where the issue comes from. The game provided the means by which an entity could easily make such a war happen. Without these means, rental empires would never have become a thing.

These means, the issue, that has plagued Eve since 2009, has been, and remains, the overwhelming concentration of wealth and power in the form of supercarriers and titans.

Every single issue with Dominion sov, the stagnation, the reliance on supercaps, the rental empires, "power projecion", were all symptoms of the underlying cause: the overwhelming wealth and power concentration in the form of supercaps and titans.

Had this issue been tackled in November 2014, instead of the red-herring problems of "power projection" and the sov system, we would not be in the scenario we are today. The massive collateral damage of both Fatigue and Fozziesov would never had occurred.
MrQuisno
Doomheim
#162 - 2015-08-19 02:28:07 UTC  |  Edited by: MrQuisno
they need to remove the x5 off the capitals.. why ? they can't get remote repairs and they are looking for a fight ...

I don't see how this would be unfair here.... if they wanted to do it now they could just takes more time?
SilentAsTheGrave
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#163 - 2015-08-19 02:29:52 UTC
Reagalan wrote:
The only solution to the problems of Fozziesov is to scrap the whole thing, return to Dominion sov, and iterate upon a proven system.


Ah yes. Where goons reigned supreme with the Blob or GTFO tactics on, well on everything. How about no.
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#164 - 2015-08-19 02:37:21 UTC
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
Reagalan wrote:
The only solution to the problems of Fozziesov is to scrap the whole thing, return to Dominion sov, and iterate upon a proven system.


Ah yes. Where goons reigned supreme with the Blob or GTFO tactics on, well on everything. How about no.


In case you haven't noticed; we still do.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.

Tuzy Naranek
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#165 - 2015-08-19 02:37:28 UTC
Zxyxcana wrote:
Ultima Online - Trammel/Felucca Patch
Dark Ages of Camelot - Trails of Atlantis Patch
World of Warcraft - Wrath of the Lich King Patch
Eve Online - Fozzie SOV

RIP


Star Wars Galaxies - New Game Enhancements Patch
Wilhelm Knicklicht
Nasty-Boyz
Templis CALSF
#166 - 2015-08-19 02:39:27 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
Wilhelm Knicklicht wrote:
Reagalan wrote:
Fozziesov is not engaging for the average fleet member, who has to wait around while the magical sov hackers do all the work.


TL;DR: fozziesov not attractive for the average goon member who just wants to get fleetwarped and press F1.

system working as intended.


I suppose you will edit your post out when a brighter crayon in the box you are in points it out to you that Reagalan is not some "average goon member who just wants to get fleetwarped and press F1"

I will give you bonus points if you turn out to be some backwater PvE wormholer or a high-sec Noctis salvager, because you do certainly demonstrate the prerequisite mental faculties for being either of the two.


no need to get your feathers in a ruffle, mr. bloc level fc. i'm not even talking about you. i'm merely paraphrasing what you wrote yourself about *the* average fleet member, which i assume meant *your* average fleet member.

so if you think that the way to improve eve is to *not* install a system that incentivizes individual, competent piloting and decision-making, you haven't been paying attention.

as to my mental faculties, thanks for the vote of confidence regarding wormhole pve. not a bad playstyle compared to sitting in a fleet twiddling thumbs and watching the blinkenlights.
Tyrone Cashmoney
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#167 - 2015-08-19 02:48:05 UTC
Wilhelm Knicklicht wrote:
no need to get your feathers in a ruffle, mr. bloc level fc. i'm not even talking about you. i'm merely paraphrasing what you wrote yourself about *the* average fleet member, which i assume meant *your* average fleet member.


That isn't the block level FC you are replying to. Reagalan is the bloc level FC.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#168 - 2015-08-19 02:51:51 UTC
What does a 4km/s speed limit on atrollceptor actually mean?

You can ECM the ceptor using a 16M ISk Dragoon and break his lock, scuppering his warm-up timer.

Quote:
[Dragoon, test]

Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II

5MN Microwarpdrive II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

Drone Link Augmentor II
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Ionic Field Projector II
Small Ionic Field Projector II
Small Ionic Field Projector II

Hornet EC-300 x 5


So, yeah, the counter to a trollceptor is a trolldessie. What a great place for the game of sov warfare to devolve to - ECM drone attacks on small ships to defend against borefare with alts.

I have no idea why anyone would get involved in this crap. There's no need to control a grid to have a fight and win a contest - just keep poking day after day after day, eventually people will get sick of having to defend even the slimmest of windows, and you will win.

Again, just because CCP seems dumb:
- no fitting Entosis links on ceptors or anything with nullification
- bring back *some* EHP
- read my comments on the Citadel devblog thread; your Citadel system in illogical and flawed

I would rather see, as suggested above, sov laser crap spawn ten nodes with 100K-1M EHP each, that you had to shoot through. No one can do one million EHP in 24 minutes using a ceptor - you'd have to bring actual ships. Sure, you'll have gangs of catalysts orbiting stupid capture beacons and doing 650 DPS each. But they can be bombed, shot, bubbled, whatever. people would have to commit to a fight and bring a ship with a gun. This? This is stupid borefare.

I regret not cancelling my autorenewal.
Peronec
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#169 - 2015-08-19 02:51:51 UTC
Good job CCP. We don't have to spend 90 minutes fixing our reinforcement timers and we can easly catch troll cepters now. *high-five* total win now! :D

I still think the entosis link should just disable prop mods. *shruggs*
Tuzy Naranek
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#170 - 2015-08-19 02:53:44 UTC
Remove interdiction nullification from Interceptors. Just give it up Fozzie. Admit you were wrong and make the change.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#171 - 2015-08-19 02:54:55 UTC
Amy Garzan wrote:


News for CCP (and you since you cant think). When Goons and the Imperium make up one of the largest player blocks, and we all quit, whos paying the bills?

Think that over.


I look forward to the 20% drop in PLEX prices and Mittens at the unemployment office. Now here's some warm milk and a cookies for you.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#172 - 2015-08-19 03:01:05 UTC
I just realized what the problem is. Idea

Since the T20 scandal, CCP employees have been forbidden to join sov holding alliances, right? So, as far as sov is concerned, they literally don't play their own game, and they haven't for years.

Anyway, as to the changes themselves. I'm reminded of that scene in Aladdin, where the genie keeps snapping his fingers and changing the monkey into a huge variety of animals, because he doesn't actually know what he wants.

"not enough... *snap* still not enough! *snap snap snap snap*..."

This won't be the last change, at least hopefully it won't be, because it absolutely does nothing to address the underlying problem with the entosis system.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

PopplerRo
#173 - 2015-08-19 03:01:15 UTC  |  Edited by: PopplerRo
Trinkets friend wrote:
What does a 4km/s speed limit on atrollceptor actually mean?

You can ECM the ceptor using a 16M ISk Dragoon and break his lock, scuppering his warm-up timer.

Quote:
[Dragoon, test]

Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II

5MN Microwarpdrive II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

Drone Link Augmentor II
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Ionic Field Projector II
Small Ionic Field Projector II
Small Ionic Field Projector II

Hornet EC-300 x 5


..

while the idea is sound that fit is plain stupid.
1.You have no active ecm mod, and those rigs don't work on the drones.
2. The drones are too slow to even catch up to jam the target.

For the cost just use a griffin, or an instawarp 'ceptor with active jams in the mids. Land, jam, warp out.

Troll 'ceptors with even more cancerous ones
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#174 - 2015-08-19 03:09:29 UTC
MrQuisno wrote:
they need to remove the x5 off the capitals.. why ? they can't get remote repairs and they are looking for a fight


So we could do all the entosising with titans and have remote-rep fleets available to jump in from a central location while they turn off their 2-minute cycling T2 link?

Really, the multiplier on caps is a good thing.
JetStream Drenard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2015-08-19 03:22:10 UTC
Maybe CCP should just take away sovereignty altogether. Just saying. They are gonna ***** no matter what, while they play nullsec farmville and follow the Imperium code of warfare.

You know what would be hilarious? Make their moons run out of goo and have the resource randomly respawn on a different moon somewhere else. Then set true sec status to fluctuate based on ratting behavior and anoms spawn based upon that instead of some silly upgrade. Less ratting = lower trusec/better anoms and vice versa. Watch them scramble around the map trying to stay ahead of the competition.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#176 - 2015-08-19 03:27:30 UTC
JetStream Drenard wrote:
Maybe CCP should just take away sovereignty altogether. Just saying. They are gonna ***** no matter what, while they play nullsec farmville and follow the Imperium code of warfare.

You know what would be hilarious? Make their moons run out of goo and have the resource randomly respawn on a different moon somewhere else. Then set true sec status to fluctuate based on ratting behavior and anoms spawn based upon that instead of some silly upgrade. Less ratting = lower trusec/better anoms and vice versa. Watch them scramble around the map trying to stay ahead of the competition.

Sensors have detected a person who has never probed moons before.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#177 - 2015-08-19 03:28:31 UTC
Also, if you think the majority of our income is from moongoo in TYOOL 2015, you're dreaming.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Hendrink Collie
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#178 - 2015-08-19 03:29:17 UTC
Not the changes I expected for first iteration, but I'll take it. I'm glad that the number of nodes have been reduced, should help with clearing out the various dead pockets of sov. Before it took way too much of a time commitment to take down a single no-name abandoned system in ass-crack Delve. I'm looking forward to testing it out, should be less of a hassle. The speed cap was a bit of a surprise to be honest; however, I generally like the concept. I think 4k may still be a BIT too fast, but I'm willing to give it a chance. All in all, a solid first step... let's see where it leads us.


Kystraz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#179 - 2015-08-19 03:29:58 UTC
Querns wrote:
JetStream Drenard wrote:
Maybe CCP should just take away sovereignty altogether. Just saying. They are gonna ***** no matter what, while they play nullsec farmville and follow the Imperium code of warfare.

You know what would be hilarious? Make their moons run out of goo and have the resource randomly respawn on a different moon somewhere else. Then set true sec status to fluctuate based on ratting behavior and anoms spawn based upon that instead of some silly upgrade. Less ratting = lower trusec/better anoms and vice versa. Watch them scramble around the map trying to stay ahead of the competition.

Sensors have detected a person who has never probed moons before.


Probing moons is more fun and rewarding than fozzie sov.
Hendrink Collie
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#180 - 2015-08-19 03:30:23 UTC
Querns wrote:
JetStream Drenard wrote:
Maybe CCP should just take away sovereignty altogether. Just saying. They are gonna ***** no matter what, while they play nullsec farmville and follow the Imperium code of warfare.

You know what would be hilarious? Make their moons run out of goo and have the resource randomly respawn on a different moon somewhere else. Then set true sec status to fluctuate based on ratting behavior and anoms spawn based upon that instead of some silly upgrade. Less ratting = lower trusec/better anoms and vice versa. Watch them scramble around the map trying to stay ahead of the competition.

Sensors have detected a person who has never probed moons before.


Probing moons is a terrible experience. I've done a few regions, not fun at all. Cry