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Lets have a Mining Revamp Devs!?
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Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#141 - 2015-07-21 20:50:02 UTC
Major Triscuits wrote:
Nah.
#gankminers


I see the oh so brave NPC forum alts are being internet tough guys in full force.

2edgy4me
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#142 - 2015-07-22 16:37:09 UTC
The problem isn't with mining, its with the miners. They are players who model their playstyle on max reward for minimum effort. Many freighter pilots exhibit this same behavior as they autopilot their routes in their solo freighters. As the Savior of Highsec points out in his famous manifesto, "Let me tell you why people are killing highsec miners" https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40762 miners always look to minimize their interaction with the game and other players while maximizing their yields.

Three years ago, before James 315 created the New Order of Highsec, mining ships with max yield and no tank were not only common but dominant in the ice fields and asteroids. Retrievers, Hulks and Mackinaws sat silently melting the minerals and ice, only moving to return to station and dump their holds. The more "efficient" had Orcas and freighters full of cargo extenders on hand to scoop up the droppings.

We Agents of the New Order fixed that aspect of mining. Now highsec is full of Procurers and Skiffs. Agents are acknowledged as they enter the various New Order systems (those with sec status between .5 and 1.0) they patrol. Yes, there are still AFK miners out there as our killboard shows as we ring up points like a pinball game but even the miners themselves deride these unwise bot aspirants and jeer their fitting choices as we announce their killmails in local.

So, to my, as always, long-winded point.

The only change miners want to mining is to make it more possible for them to undock in a max yield mining ship, siddle up next to an ice block or asteroid, start the lasers... and go do the laundry. Any other "improvement" to make mining more interactive, more challenging or OMG to kill the ability to play they game while not actually playing the game will be met with an uproar unmatched since Jita and Amarr (and Uedema)were burned by the "you know who" who isn't us. Well, not most of us anyway. OK, Uedema was us.

Its the miners. They joined a game famous for massive space battles for control of the universe, for desparate survival fights against infamous pirate corporations, for spying, intrigue, deception and betrayal. They joined a game where the goal is to carve YOUR space out of the other guys hide. And they go collect dirt.

Thats why CODE. commenters have entered this thread. Your premise is wrong. Your theory doesn't match the data. You cannot get there from here.

Mining can't be fixed. But don't despair! The New Order is fixing the miners.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable

Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#143 - 2015-07-22 17:16:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
Bing Bangboom wrote:
Its the miners. They joined a game famous for being a sandbox where you're supposed to do whatever you want in space but not alone


Fixed

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#144 - 2015-07-23 06:56:53 UTC
For letting CODE derail your post im going to, for the first time, say go forth CODE and kill this chick. If she is so easily played she deserves to wake up in a clone bay.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#145 - 2015-07-23 13:55:27 UTC
The only new content I can see in this thread is that Kimmi is back. \o/

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Lucy Lopez
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2015-07-23 14:23:33 UTC
Mira Robinson wrote:
Well, this thread was a nice read.

As a career miner who no longer actively plays (last month on a deactivated yearly sub), I cannot help but shake my head at the people that complain about CODE. Anyone who whines about how entitled religious they are clearly do not know their modus operandi.

Tears. Reactions. Publicity. That's the goal in their crosshairs. And you people give to them in such droves that they rarely have to work for it.

While I was an active player, I played paranoid. Aligned, at the keyboard, with both an Orca and Hulk, and never once lost a barge to a New Order Agent, or any other ganker. I've chatted with them both in-game and on MinerBumping, and I can assure you that behind the keyboard is a perfectly competent and civilized person.

It's role play. Arrogant, pompous, cult-focused role play.

And it's effective, and damned genius.

When you look at the whole picture, it's easy to see through. Even the permits are worthless, and part of the role play. If you mined with your eyes glued to local, aligned, and paranoid, or "following the code", you'd have no need for a Mining Permit in your bio in the first place.

I have not logged in to the client in months. But you know what I have done almost every single day for two years? Gone to their site for the latest story. Dare I say that the content and stories the New Order produces are more interesting than actually logging into the game, for a retired carebear such as myself, who has found greener, less emergent pastures in a theme-park science fiction MMO.

So go ahead, complain about CODE. I can think of nothing more useless.

So now on-topic. I don't believe mining can be saved. Strip away the player interaction and cutthroat nature of the community, and you are left with what is admittedly very aged, very dull gameplay. Any effective change to mining would probably make it more immersive than any other activity in the game, and I doubt CCP, or the PVPer's would take kindly to that.


Great post. Complaining about CODE is essentially complaining about the thing that separates EVE from other games.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#147 - 2015-07-23 14:47:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
There would be three things I would do regarding mining

1) remove all 5 and 10% rocks. Instead have a small mini game. If you win, you earn 5% more ore in a cycle. Win twice, 10%. You can repeat the game until you get to 10%. Then that rock you are mining provides the extra ore until you untarget it. I would apply the same logic to gas sites and ice sites.

2) I'd remove moon mining poses from the game

3) the rorqual would become the premier mining source for moon goo. It either mines it, or produces roids for barges to mine. I'd make the rorqual provide some protection to mining subcaps in this situation.

Or

3) the rorqual becomes an absolute replacement for pos mining arrays, which means if you want moon goo, you mine it (requires a pilot). I'd make a few requirements to this. To moon mine in a rorqual, need a corporation. Npc lowsec produce the same amount of moongoo that is produced currently. Npc nullsec 15% more than lowsec. if the owner of the sov nullsec uses the rorqual, they get a 100% boost in materials, to get the boost, the rorqual pilot must be in the alliance that owns the sov. If whoever uses the rorqual does not own the null, they get the same amount as in lowsec.

The reason for the significant boost is that there will no longer be any afk moon mining. Owning the sov gives a huge boost to output. Owning lowsec moons will be less relevant to nullsec players as the output in null is almost double of that in low. Double output for ownership of sov and active moon mining.

Requires an investment of time and characters.

Percentages can be adjusted.

Yaay!!!!
ashley Eoner
#148 - 2015-07-23 14:56:41 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Frankly after the genius of loot spew and other things I'd be afraid of CCP touching mining.

Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:


anyone can gank, come have a pitched fight, you never know, you might like it.



You'd be surprised. I've FCed small lowsec roams, TiDi battle in null, and highsec ganking. Of any of them, the highsec gank fleets took the most work and "on your feet" thinking.

Possible targets can pop up anywhere, you're normally wrangling 3-4 different scouts. You've got to be aware of your gank teams warp speed, ship agility, all your bookmarks between here and there, ship DPS, concord status and response times, anti-ganker location, tank the target has just by looking......it's a LOT of information.

Most people only see the last 10 seconds of a gank, and just assume it's easy. Ohhh, trust me, there's work involved.

I can't pvp effectively with 10 accounts but I sure can gank effectively with 10 on my own..


All of which you stated are involved when committing to a fleet roam in null/low plus some stuff (exluding the concord status). Replace the anti-ganker location with known enemy fleets etc.
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#149 - 2015-07-23 15:31:47 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Maybe have introduce a varient of the Rorq that could actively mine moons?

I'd rather go with an old idea that current moon extractors should be replaced with some sort of "orbital industrial laser" that "chips" on moons when activated, creating debris in space to be mined by mining ships for moon goo.

There you go, uses either current or any replacement mechanics for mining, offers natural opportunities for players to interact in space, don't shake up global economy in unmanageable ways unless you are specifically aiming at revamp.



What I'd like to see (and sadly it's likely pretty impossible in Eve), is something more along the lines of a "capture" mechanic for mining.

Along the lines of, a miner (or more preferably a mining group) finds an asteroid. They have to scan and analyze it to determine mining yield. Then using something like tractor beams, built-on rockets, or the like, they have to physically move the asteroid from it's location to a deployable type dohickey elsewhere, for it to be broken down into minerals. Maybe throw in a few steps and some time lag for refining, to make group/corp style play more attractive. Then they can take the minerals, and do what they will.


Sounds something like mining that ED has. If people are only interested on mining, Elite might offer something better for them (in Solo mode especially?) instead...

No more whining from carebear "let me play like I wish!" miners after that neither anymore, and proper miners will get proper income after such a removal of (high sec) mining as a main way of playing.

Sounds to me win win for both games.

Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
[
Every step of the way, make it something that requires active attention on the part of the miners. Include some PVP risk in the endeavour, then make the payoff be worth it. No more "park ship start beams and wait".


For me mining has never been total afk when I have done it, constant switching between asteroids and loading Orca/takeing care of the cyckle...
ashley Eoner
#150 - 2015-07-23 17:19:47 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
If you change mining to make it less mind-numbingly boring, the white knights will complain without cease. Mining is apparently "fun" for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with mining, so if you actually make them play the game such people's howling would throw the earth off it's axis.

If you don't change mining, it will still have an extremely high turnaround rate for people who engage in it, since it is literally less engaging than most Facebook games.

Personally, I don't care either way, but I will point that there would likely be a LOT less bots in this game if mining actually involved doing something. Also, nerf sentry drones.

You are quite the optimist to think that a change would result in less bots...