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[Aegis] Missile balance package

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M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#221 - 2015-06-21 23:19:50 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Kelron Renalard wrote:
Quote:
Heavy Missile Damage is being increased by 5% for all Heavy Missile Types


Does this include Heavy Assault Missile? I'm not sure about it.


HAM's are already incredibly powerful and does not need a buff.


That's why all missile cruisers are using RLMLs, right?

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#222 - 2015-06-21 23:23:08 UTC
159Pinky wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
We would have liked to include disruption modules to go along with these enhancement modules but there are actually some technical hurdles we need to figure out and we didn't want to keep holding back on adding these in the mean time. Look for those sometime in the future.



So, rather than you guys delivering a full package, you decide to go for half a thing with a promise ( soon (tm) ) for a fix. How on eath is that delivering good game content?

Don't get me wrong, these mods are long overdue. But at least get some disruptions to go with it as well. For all I care buff Defender missiles so they actually do something.

Cause if these new disruptor mods take to long people will ask for a nerf bat, and we all know ccp swings that bat often and misses as much as hitting their mark....


If these are ready, why delay them? Put them in and let people use them while working on further balancing

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#223 - 2015-06-22 01:16:23 UTC
Question in regards to the Golem.

Will the Golem remain bonuses to TPs?
If so, will it be better to use these, or TPs?
If not, will the Golem potentially be given other bonuses?

Seems like if you keep the TP bonus, it will either be useless, or a hendered option( having optimal and falloff).

Would like to know..
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#224 - 2015-06-22 01:36:19 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Question in regards to the Golem.

Will the Golem remain bonuses to TPs?
If so, will it be better to use these, or TPs?
If not, will the Golem potentially be given other bonuses?

Seems like if you keep the TP bonus, it will either be useless, or a hendered option( having optimal and falloff).

Would like to know..


Something to consider: while these modules have (current) paper stats better than a target painter for application, they also only affect your own damage. A target painter of course helps apply damage for everyone and everything in your fleet.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Lai Dai Counterintelligence
#225 - 2015-06-22 01:52:06 UTC
If or when you do add a way for missiles to be disrupted, please make it it's own module or as a script for dampeners and not tracking disruptors. Tracking disruptors are already powerful enough and giving it a missile disruption script would be way overpowered. Tracking disruptors would basically be about as compulsory a module for PvP as points and scrams.
stoicfaux
#226 - 2015-06-22 02:10:55 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Question in regards to the Golem.

Will the Golem remain bonuses to TPs?
If so, will it be better to use these, or TPs?
If not, will the Golem potentially be given other bonuses?

Seems like if you keep the TP bonus, it will either be useless, or a hendered option( having optimal and falloff).

Would like to know..

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5832118#post5832118

156.25% PWNAGE 50% Bonus (e.g. Golem)
148.89% PWNAGE 50%
146.91% MGC II w/ Prec
140.77% MGC II w/ Prec
132.10% PWNAGE 50%
126.77% MGC II w/ Prec
115.92% PWNAGE 50%

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#227 - 2015-06-22 03:33:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
stoicfaux wrote:
156.25% PWNAGE 50% Bonus (e.g. Golem)
148.89% PWNAGE 50%
146.91% MGC II w/ Prec
140.77% MGC II w/ Prec
132.10% PWNAGE 50%
126.77% MGC II w/ Prec
115.92% PWNAGE 50%

If I understand this correctly, you're stating 2 target painters followed by 2 missile guidance computers (scripted) should be the new meta on Golems vs. 3-4 target painters, yes?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#228 - 2015-06-22 04:08:33 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Question in regards to the Golem.

Will the Golem remain bonuses to TPs?
If so, will it be better to use these, or TPs?
If not, will the Golem potentially be given other bonuses?

Seems like if you keep the TP bonus, it will either be useless, or a hendered option( having optimal and falloff).

Would like to know..


Something to consider: while these modules have (current) paper stats better than a target painter for application, they also only affect your own damage. A target painter of course helps apply damage for everyone and everything in your fleet.



This is correct, however, in both PVE and PVP the Golem is typically used solo.
If someone wishes to fleet, it's better to bring a different boat, as without bastion the Golem is meh...
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#229 - 2015-06-22 05:21:02 UTC
Hanazava Karyna wrote:
Now we need only some effective EWAR that works on missiles.


Jam the missile boat.
Smartbomb the missiles.
Damp the missile boat so you are out of its locking range.

Missile defenders still a thing? If yes, use em... shoot down the incoming missiles or something.

Been around since the beginning.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#230 - 2015-06-22 06:52:29 UTC
A word of warning: unlike optimal and falloff of guns, missile velocity and flight time are multiplicative when it comes to determining effective range. You can see how drastic it is when you look at how missile range is penalized for not having perfect skills (it helps that numbers given by skills are huge, but point stands).

Please consider this when determining effectiveness of missile scripts and overheating bonuses.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#231 - 2015-06-22 07:58:15 UTC
I like these changes, they will need some fine tuning and there is a need to look at E-war in general, but it's a good first step.

While you guys are at it:

Could you look in the enormous difference in SP that is needed to train missiles to Turrets?
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#232 - 2015-06-22 12:35:07 UTC
A reason to fly a phoenix finally. And dust of those old phoons i have lying around.

Yes i think these mods are a great addition. The ewar mods when they arrive will also be interesting. Expecting more fleets to get good at firewalling with these changes.

Hell you may even be allowed to finally bring that drake on fleets again :D.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Terra Chrall
Doomheim
#233 - 2015-06-22 13:23:32 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
A word of warning: unlike optimal and falloff of guns, missile velocity and flight time are multiplicative when it comes to determining effective range. You can see how drastic it is when you look at how missile range is penalized for not having perfect skills (it helps that numbers given by skills are huge, but point stands).

Please consider this when determining effectiveness of missile scripts and overheating bonuses.

I agree, but also keep in mind missiles are one of the few weapons that a ship, with speed, can increase the effective range my moving away from the missile ship and really fast ships can outrun the weapon all together.
stoicfaux
#234 - 2015-06-22 13:37:18 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
156.25% PWNAGE 50% Bonus (e.g. Golem)
148.89% PWNAGE 50%
146.91% MGC II w/ Prec
140.77% MGC II w/ Prec
132.10% PWNAGE 50%
126.77% MGC II w/ Prec
115.92% PWNAGE 50%

If I understand this correctly, you're stating 2 target painters followed by 2 missile guidance computers (scripted) should be the new meta on Golems vs. 3-4 target painters, yes?

Yes.

In theory, (still spreadsheeting the details,) a 4 TP Golem designed to one-shot non-elite NPC cruisers, could drop the Rigor rigs and upgrade to two RF TPs + 2 MGCs II w/Prec script. Which would (finally) allow a mission Golem to use warp speed rigs.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
159Pinky
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#235 - 2015-06-22 18:44:58 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
159Pinky wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
...

....


If these are ready, why delay them? Put them in and let people use them while working on further balancing


I know this further balancing, the fact that they say: technical issues means we'll wait for years.
Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#236 - 2015-06-22 23:37:16 UTC
Need details on the scripts for the MGCs but these things seem to have the potential to be quite overpowered if you just follow the pattern established with Tracking Computers and simply have the scripts double half the unscripted values while setting the other half to zero.
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#237 - 2015-06-23 00:00:33 UTC
Skyler Hawk wrote:
Need details on the scripts for the MGCs but these things seem to have the potential to be quite overpowered if you just follow the pattern established with Tracking Computers and simply have the scripts double half the unscripted values while setting the other half to zero.


Indeed. Can you imagine what a Nemesis with 3 of these puppies, scripted for damage application and overheated on all modules, would do?

I know there could be stacking penalties -- so let's say 2 of them plus a target painter. Absolutely beautiful.

I meant brutal. Absolutely brutal.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#238 - 2015-06-23 00:58:20 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Skyler Hawk wrote:
Need details on the scripts for the MGCs but these things seem to have the potential to be quite overpowered if you just follow the pattern established with Tracking Computers and simply have the scripts double half the unscripted values while setting the other half to zero.


Indeed. Can you imagine what a Nemesis with 3 of these puppies, scripted for damage application and overheated on all modules, would do?

I know there could be stacking penalties -- so let's say 2 of them plus a target painter. Absolutely beautiful.

I meant brutal. Absolutely brutal.



Ahh hell... I just realized it was you...
Just got finished watching you solo the drake on youtube.

Anywho, with what you've just mentioned, I'm wondering if these modules/scripts makes certain missile boats (especially in the case of bombers) overshadow other options by quite a bit?


Examples would basically be all Minmatar missile boats (due to a more balanced mid/low ratio), and/or if it makes certain Caldari missile boats more powerful than, say an Amarr missile boat or the reverse effect....
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#239 - 2015-06-23 02:02:13 UTC
This is the best EvE news I've heard in a long time. From the ashes and misery of nerfdom my beloved drakes will rise up and fly again. And promptly die in a fire as usual, but whatever.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#240 - 2015-06-23 02:04:47 UTC
Terra Chrall wrote:

I agree, but also keep in mind missiles are one of the few weapons that a ship, with speed, can increase the effective range my moving away from the missile ship and really fast ships can outrun the weapon all together.

To put it in a better way. True missile range is determined by overtake velocity.

Take a ship going at 2000m/s away from you.
Now consider a missile at 2,000, 2,100 & 2,200. Flight time 10 seconds.
The effective range at which you can shoot at the ship with the first missile is 0. Because it will never catch the ship.
The second missile has an effective range of 1000m
The third missile has an effective range of 2000m
This is despite the technical range on all three being 20-22km.

Obviously if they aren't flying directly away from you this means your missiles can try and cut the corner to some extent, but lacking true brains they aim straight at where the target is now to do so rather than future predict meaning unless they are coming head on into you, the last part is almost always a true stern chase.

Hence why in this era of ships going faster again (though not as crazy as nano age I know), missiles are really suffering because the real effective range is dropping dramatically.