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[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

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Irya Boone
The Scope
#1701 - 2015-06-19 22:19:08 UTC
good

give it some work again , time to remove the ability of FC/squad commander to make people warp to gate/stations

let the F1 monkeys die slowly !!

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Verlyn
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#1702 - 2015-06-19 23:41:30 UTC
THIS IS ******* DUMB.

Dont do it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1703 - 2015-06-20 00:11:13 UTC
Kinete Jenius wrote:

Did you miss fozzie saying he wanted to remove fleet warp a while back? I'm pretty sure this change might have been the result...


We can still fleet warp after this change.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1704 - 2015-06-20 00:15:19 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
You won't be using Anathemas and Cheetahs for tackle. Prolly not even a buzzard. No fitting space and no defense. So much for giving these twats combat bonuses or any role beyond a interacting with somewhat clever PVE.

This Helios has 4k EHP, more if you lose the nanos for overdrives. It's sole merit is the 1k hull.


[Helios, Tackle]
Type-D Restrained Nanofiber Structure
Damage Control II
Type-D Restrained Nanofiber Structure

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200
Scan Acquisition Array I
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script

Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I

You can decloak midst warp, about 1AU out and will land with no calibration timer. Not that's a clever idea in its own right, because cloak allows you to position favoruably. You could try recalibration rigs, this drops the timer down to 3.7s with Cloaking V, and rely on victims poor align time to tackle him/her/it.

Still, you cannot compare this to an interceptor because it is "Just as flimsy". This has no drone protection, no practically replenishable tank, and it has to use the sisters launcher, so its a 70mill ships + 10 mill cargo of probes and boosters.



And your average ceptor fits no tanking mods at all so when it gets caught it dies even faster. If you want something tanky then use an assault frigate or upgrade to a cruiser hull. We used to tackle stuff just fine with cov-ops.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#1705 - 2015-06-20 01:14:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Arla Sarain wrote:
You won't be using Anathemas and Cheetahs for tackle. Prolly not even a buzzard. No fitting space and no defense. So much for giving these twats combat bonuses or any role beyond a interacting with somewhat clever PVE.

This Helios has 4k EHP, more if you lose the nanos for overdrives. It's sole merit is the 1k hull.


[Helios, Tackle]
Type-D Restrained Nanofiber Structure
Damage Control II
Type-D Restrained Nanofiber Structure

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200
Scan Acquisition Array I
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script

Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I

You can decloak midst warp, about 1AU out and will land with no calibration timer. Not that's a clever idea in its own right, because cloak allows you to position favoruably. You could try recalibration rigs, this drops the timer down to 3.7s with Cloaking V, and rely on victims poor align time to tackle him/her/it.

Still, you cannot compare this to an interceptor because it is "Just as flimsy". This has no drone protection, no practically replenishable tank, and it has to use the sisters launcher, so its a 70mill ships + 10 mill cargo of probes and boosters.



And your average ceptor fits no tanking mods at all so when it gets caught it dies even faster. If you want something tanky then use an assault frigate or upgrade to a cruiser hull. We used to tackle stuff just fine with cov-ops.

Covops die ridiculously fast to light drones. I've got a medium ASB on my Stiletto - I assumed everyone would want at least some tank.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#1706 - 2015-06-20 01:49:02 UTC
Zappity wrote:
And your average ceptor fits no tanking mods at all so when it gets caught it dies even faster. If you want something tanky then use an assault frigate or upgrade to a cruiser hull. We used to tackle stuff just fine with cov-ops.

Covops die ridiculously fast to light drones. I've got a medium ASB on my Stiletto - I assumed everyone would want at least some tank. [/quote]

They can be fitted to Cheetahs and Buzzards, too.
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1707 - 2015-06-20 02:50:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kinete Jenius wrote:

Did you miss fozzie saying he wanted to remove fleet warp a while back? I'm pretty sure this change might have been the result...


We can still fleet warp after this change.

With several caveats..

Point still stands.
Mourn LeBlade
Jupiter Roughriders
#1708 - 2015-06-20 03:53:13 UTC
Can we please decouple the douchebaggery of nullsec from wormholes?

For ratting or hitting wormholes this is really going to blow. Thanks nullsec whiners.

LTCOL LeBlade 177 Division Live Free or Die
Soko99
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1709 - 2015-06-20 04:23:51 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Gentle Space Foke,

As announced on the o7 show we are making some changes to fleet warp. Fleet Commanders, Wing Commanders & Squad Commanders will no longer be able to warp to anything a fleet member couldn’t warp to on their own. This includes –
  • Probe Results
  • Bookmarks
  • Any private deadspace item (missions, etc.)
Commanders will still be able to warp their fleet to other fleet members, and all other ‘public’ objects.
The goal of these changes is to encourage more individual fleet member participation and reduce the speed at which fleets can get on top of targets (e.g bombers).

Q&As
Q: When is this being implemented?
A: Aegis (July)

Q: What if every member of the fleet has the bookmark?
A: Nope, sorry, no go.

Q: Can I still fleet warp to planets/moons/stations/cynos/anoms?
A: Yes!

Q: CCP, why you do this?
A: We want transfer more responsibility for the success of a fleet from its FC to its members.

Q: CCP, will there be more fleet warp changes in the future?
A: Probably, yes.

[UPDATE 2015-06-12]
Q: CCP, this unduly effects people who live in wormholes!
A: Yes, and we're not happy about that. We have some systems and ideas we're working on to mitigate these effects. However we're not ready to announce those yet.

Q: CCP, why are you nerfing fleet warp just to nerf bombers!?
A: This change is not solely aimed at bombers. we expect bomber fleets to require a lot more pilot involvement and skill. But a highly skilled bomber fleet can still be just as effective as they are now. This runs true for all fleets.

Q: CCP, this change doesn't create more pilot engagement / participation, the FC will just run another alt that he fleet warps too!
A: That would work sure. But fleets who have members assisting the FC by setting up warpin's, getting tackle, etc. are going to be a lot more effective. We can't force you to participate in the fleet, but we can give an advantage to those that do.

Good Internet Space People of New Eden, its going to take us some time to digest all the feedback you've given. You can expect to see more information about this and other changes next week.



So since this will essentially eliminate the reason ISKboxer was banned.. Are you guys going to re-allow iskboxer?
Arrendis
TK Corp
#1710 - 2015-06-20 05:53:32 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:

Q: CCP, this change doesn't create more pilot engagement / participation, the FC will just run another alt that he fleet warps too!
A: That would work sure. But fleets who have members assisting the FC by setting up warpin's, getting tackle, etc. are going to be a lot more effective. We can't force you to participate in the fleet, but we can give an advantage to those that do.


This bit, by the way? The bit that's everything other than setting up warp-ins? This change doesn't affect at all. The people being warped to a covops on a perch to get tackle will be the same folks who are already getting warped to probe results. And since they'll have exactly as much idea (none) when the covops is in position as they currently have of when the probe results come in, they can't be any more pro-active about it than they were.
Karti Aivo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1711 - 2015-06-20 11:06:43 UTC
Hello,


i dont think this a well thought out change, i do think that you want to nerf combat probing instead.
Please rethink this change and really take into account the feedback by the way better written posts than mine.

TIA.
X4me1eoH
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1712 - 2015-06-20 11:50:33 UTC
now, many peoples mining with many windows. And warp all their windows using fleetwarp.Do you expect an increase in ore prices after the patch? Because I think many miners disable their subscriptions. I for sure disable 1-2 my alts.

Гайды по еве: https://www.youtube.com/user/X4me1eoH/feed?&ab_channel=X4me1eoH
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1713 - 2015-06-20 13:18:04 UTC
X4me1eoH wrote:
now, many peoples mining with many windows. And warp all their windows using fleetwarp.Do you expect an increase in ore prices after the patch? Because I think many miners disable their subscriptions. I for sure disable 1-2 my alts.


No you won't.
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1714 - 2015-06-20 13:21:55 UTC
Bad idea gents, this just increases some tedious things in game. I do not support this at all. Quit trying to drive off subscriptions. There are some of the people I know that are on the edge of just finding another game from some of these "wonderful" changes.
Lisa Sophie d'Elancourt
Empusa.
#1715 - 2015-06-20 13:22:57 UTC
Nice changes. +1
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1716 - 2015-06-20 13:38:27 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Bad idea gents, this just increases some tedious things in game. I do not support this at all. Quit trying to drive off subscriptions. There are some of the people I know that are on the edge of just finding another game from some of these "wonderful" changes.


Fun fact, back before we got the fleet broadcasting tools EVE was growing at its fastest rate.

Nobody it going to quit over this.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1717 - 2015-06-20 13:59:54 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Bad idea gents, this just increases some tedious things in game. I do not support this at all. Quit trying to drive off subscriptions. There are some of the people I know that are on the edge of just finding another game from some of these "wonderful" changes.


Eve does just fine without those special snowflakes.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1718 - 2015-06-20 14:03:20 UTC
Soko99 wrote:

So since this will essentially eliminate the reason ISKboxer was banned.. Are you guys going to re-allow iskboxer?


Err, no. This is not the reason ISBoxer was banned. Being able to control 2 squads of perectly synced purifiers was one, and running 34 nightmares and 6 basis on one screen in perfect sync was another. Input broadcasting allows for a single individual to outperform seperate players massively in certain situations, and therefore should remain banned. Rollover is not much better, but at least something is eating a couple of commands so it isn't nigh-perfect.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#1719 - 2015-06-20 15:33:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Fun fact, back before we got the fleet broadcasting tools EVE was growing at its fastest rate.

Rocket wrote:
That is true.


baltec1 wrote:
Nobody it going to quit over this.

Rocket wrote:
That is also true.


It's still not a change that actually does what they want it to do.

CCP, If you want fleet members more engaged, give them reason to be engaged. Right-clicking a name when someone XXs in fleet chat and selecting 'fleet - > warp to member' isn't any more 'engagement' than ctrl-clicking a broadcast and pressing F1.

Give people things to do. Give them reasons to do them. And do it in a way that doesn't pile additional burdens onto the fleet members who are already engaged and already active and busy.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#1720 - 2015-06-20 15:42:25 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Bad idea gents, this just increases some tedious things in game. I do not support this at all. Quit trying to drive off subscriptions. There are some of the people I know that are on the edge of just finding another game from some of these "wonderful" changes.


Eve does just fine without those special snowflakes.


I'm not one of the "Eve is dying" crowd, but Eve could use every person it can get. Anyone willing to log in and participate in Eve is just fine in my book.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.