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[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

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Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1461 - 2015-06-17 02:49:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Awkward Pi Duolus
Arrendis wrote:


Actually, he's right. The current line of FC fittings for our fleets all include the ability to probe.

What's more, most of our FCs are using multiple accounts during every engagement, running their brick-tanked FC ship (which may or may not be a booster) as well as a probing covops. Why? Well, it's really quite simple:

90% of humanity is a bunch of mouth-breathing morons who'd have a hard time finding their heads with both hands if they weren't attached.

This is also why for large organizations, fittings are standardized - we simply don't trust the average salt-of-the-earth nitwit to have the first clue how to fit a ship.

We also tend not to trust the average salt-of-the-earth nitwit to not be shooting his own fleet members during a fight - and experience has proven us right on this one at least once pretty much every fight.

So if you expect the FCs to not be control-freaks who feel like this change means they have to do everything themselves on even more simultaneous logins... you're either incredibly naive, or smoking crack.

And if you think this is unfairly critical of people in general, I encourage you to talk with people who run large organizations outside of EVE. This is not a condition that exists only for explodable internet space pixels. The more points of failure you introduce, the more places failure will occur.

Always.

Edit to add: As for the specific claim about 'a 250 man fleet being a one-man show'... it's usually more like a four-man show. Maybe up to 9 if you want to include the WC's turning their boosts on and off.


Thank you for your detailed response. I underlined two parts that actually make the same points I was making in my posts, and that baltec1 was supposedly refuting.

Specifically, the points are:
- FCs use multiple accounts at the moment, with a dedicated cov ops prober and a brick tank booster. (Not one ship, as baltec ludicrously claims)
- You don't trust 90% of the fleet, let alone the noob, to do anything of responsibility.

So tell me, what in these changes would allow new players to supposedly become "I was there" scouts, when FCs already have that role fulfilled, and don't trust the others anyway?

Forgive me for chuckling as I appreciate the fact that you contradict what baltec1 is saying, even though I find your efforts admirable, because his logic is really that bad.
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1462 - 2015-06-17 02:51:33 UTC
joecuster wrote:

They already put scouts far away and run even if 1 neutral pops in local. Your point is null. The only way to get fights is to deceive bads into thinking they can win.


Exactly - they do all this change is supposed to enforce already. What, then, is the point of adding another task, and a tedious one at that?
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1463 - 2015-06-17 04:14:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Awkward Pi Duolus
*failed edit attempt*
joecuster
Anime Masters
#1464 - 2015-06-17 05:21:02 UTC
This change is good it kills the blob and forces people to learn to play the game
Azarath NazGhoul
Doomheim
#1465 - 2015-06-17 05:27:00 UTC
joecuster wrote:
This change is good it kills the blob and forces people to learn to play the game


No it doesn't, why would it?
It just make the fights more annoying, do you really think any competent FC will say "well the hostiles are at x. Warp there at a good range for your ship"

That will never happen, so nothing will change except the gameplay for fleets will be more annoying.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#1466 - 2015-06-17 05:33:15 UTC
I really do want to know how this nerfs bombers. People keep saying it does, and I keep thinking about in, but I just can't figure it out.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#1467 - 2015-06-17 05:36:30 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
I really do want to know how this nerfs bombers. People keep saying it does, and I keep thinking about in, but I just can't figure it out.

It doesn't do anything for bombers. Really. Bomb runs use a once off "bookmark" for a perch, so most of the time you don't bother with the bookmark. Just warp to fleet member.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1468 - 2015-06-17 06:07:29 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
I really do want to know how this nerfs bombers. People keep saying it does, and I keep thinking about in, but I just can't figure it out.

It doesn't do anything for bombers. Really. Bomb runs use a once off "bookmark" for a perch, so most of the time you don't bother with the bookmark. Just warp to fleet member.


And what happens when you have to bomb now? Does the bomb magically leave your bay from your perch and end up on the reds? Or does the FC have to warp squad @ 30 to whatever you want to bomb? (Unless you're setting up on a gate..) If FC can't warp squad to 30, then some poor sod will have to sit at 30 in just the right alignment so you can warp to them and bomb before losing alignment, or do a kamikaze @ 0 and then you can bomb him @ 30.

That extra dude stuck in the line of fire.. things make sense now?
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1469 - 2015-06-17 06:08:21 UTC
joecuster wrote:
This change is good it kills the blob and forces people to learn to play the game


Care to offer some reasoning behind that, or is the feeling of "truthiness" sufficient?
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#1470 - 2015-06-17 06:18:25 UTC
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
I really do want to know how this nerfs bombers. People keep saying it does, and I keep thinking about in, but I just can't figure it out.

It doesn't do anything for bombers. Really. Bomb runs use a once off "bookmark" for a perch, so most of the time you don't bother with the bookmark. Just warp to fleet member.


And what happens when you have to bomb now? Does the bomb magically leave your bay from your perch and end up on the reds? Or does the FC have to warp squad @ 30 to whatever you want to bomb? (Unless you're setting up on a gate..) If FC can't warp squad to 30, then some poor sod will have to sit at 30 in just the right alignment so you can warp to them and bomb before losing alignment, or do a kamikaze @ 0 and then you can bomb him @ 30.

That extra dude stuck in the line of fire.. things make sense now?
If they're anything like my bombing FCs they'll just target a wreck and tell us to warp to that then target a ship. I have never been fleet warped to a hostle grid in a bomber.
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1471 - 2015-06-17 06:24:01 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
If they're anything like my bombing FCs they'll just target a wreck and tell us to warp to that then target a ship. I have never been fleet warped to a hostle grid in a bomber.


You kidding.. you're missing out! Also, 'a' ship? You'd so missing out :)

You get a timely warp @30 and you can wipe out a whole fleet. Look up some youtube videos of Nulli Secunda first void bombing tengus and then electron bombing them to oblivion. All right into the hostile grid.
Dermeisen
#1472 - 2015-06-17 06:31:17 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
All you did earlier on is show you have no idea how our fleets work.


I'll leave it to general populace to judge the absurdity of your claim of a 250 man fleet as being a one-man show.


Actually, he's right. The current line of FC fittings for our fleets all include the ability to probe.

......

90% of humanity is a bunch of mouth-breathing morons who'd have a hard time finding their heads with both hands if they weren't attached.

This is also why for large organizations, fittings are standardized - we simply don't trust the average salt-of-the-earth nitwit to have the first clue how to fit a ship.

We also tend not to trust the average salt-of-the-earth nitwit to not be shooting his own fleet members during a fight - and experience has proven us right on this one at least once pretty much every fight.

So if you expect the FCs to not be control-freaks who feel like this change means they have to do everything themselves on even more simultaneous logins... you're either incredibly naive, or smoking crack.
......

Edit to add: As for the specific claim about 'a 250 man fleet being a one-man show'... it's usually more like a four-man show. Maybe up to 9 if you want to include the WC's turning their boosts on and off.


Beyond your contempt for you fellow man I'd have to agree with your diagnosis if not the cause. These 'mouth breathers' need responsibility that's the only way they'll get good - and they will get real good given the chance, Fozzie sov will do it. These changes are uncomfortable and will challenge your faith in a brother but it's this kind of attitude that has really kicked this game in the proverbials. Nerf FCs listen to the guys who are best at the game such as Gorski Car.

"Not the Boreworms!"
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#1473 - 2015-06-17 06:52:12 UTC
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
If they're anything like my bombing FCs they'll just target a wreck and tell us to warp to that then target a ship. I have never been fleet warped to a hostle grid in a bomber.


You kidding.. you're missing out! Also, 'a' ship? You'd so missing out :)

You get a timely warp @30 and you can wipe out a whole fleet. Look up some youtube videos of Nulli Secunda first void bombing tengus and then electron bombing them to oblivion. All right into the hostile grid.
I don't think you understood any of what I just said.
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1474 - 2015-06-17 07:03:42 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
If they're anything like my bombing FCs they'll just target a wreck and tell us to warp to that then target a ship. I have never been fleet warped to a hostle grid in a bomber.


You kidding.. you're missing out! Also, 'a' ship? You'd so missing out :)

You get a timely warp @30 and you can wipe out a whole fleet. Look up some youtube videos of Nulli Secunda first void bombing tengus and then electron bombing them to oblivion. All right into the hostile grid.
I don't think you understood any of what I just said.


Do tell. What did I miss?
Dermeisen
#1475 - 2015-06-17 07:27:04 UTC
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
If they're anything like my bombing FCs they'll just target a wreck and tell us to warp to that then target a ship. I have never been fleet warped to a hostle grid in a bomber.


You kidding.. you're missing out! Also, 'a' ship? You'd so missing out :)

You get a timely warp @30 and you can wipe out a whole fleet. Look up some youtube videos of Nulli Secunda first void bombing tengus and then electron bombing them to oblivion. All right into the hostile grid.
I don't think you understood any of what I just said.


Do tell. What did I miss?


I agree Pi the confusion comes from you guys talking at cross-porpoises, 'Hidden Porpoise' is talking, I guess, about a bomber torp fit rather than in a bombing role , the timings and direction do require a little more finesse in the bombing role.

LOVE your toon's name 'Hidden Porpoise'

"Not the Boreworms!"
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1476 - 2015-06-17 07:34:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Awkward Pi Duolus
Dermeisen wrote:

I agree Pi the confusion comes from you guys talking at cross-porpoises, 'Hidden Porpoise' is talking, I guess, about a bomber torp fit rather than in a bombing role , the timings and direction do require a little more finesse in the bombing role.

LOVE your toon's name 'Hidden Porpoise'


Hah, that makes sense. Well then.. if that is how HiddenPorpoise has only used bombers.. can I just say to him again is.. boy you're missing out!!! =)
X4me1eoH
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1477 - 2015-06-17 08:26:48 UTC  |  Edited by: X4me1eoH
Every patch, the game gets worse and worse.
First, you make this uncolored, nondescript and inconvenient neocom
Second, you make crude version of new map. With broken filters. Gods, it is a year in beta version.
Third, new crude overview. With drones looks like a ships. 90% trouble. With looking the same cruisers and BS in pve.
Fourthly you want remove fleet warp.
What else?

WHY YOU MAKE GAME UNCOMFORTABLE?

ok, maybe warp in scan results good idea. But what's wrong with bookmarks warp? Or warp alts on missions? Warp fleet on bookmarks in wh space. Have you thought about different warp speed? Have you thought about miners?

Гайды по еве: https://www.youtube.com/user/X4me1eoH/feed?&ab_channel=X4me1eoH
joecuster
Anime Masters
#1478 - 2015-06-17 08:51:12 UTC
These casual tears are the best. Fozzie can rate how good a patch is for the health of the game by how many bads come out of the wood work. The more bads crying, the better it is.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#1479 - 2015-06-17 09:26:23 UTC
So max probe skills and best hardware isn't going to be enough to catch most people now.
X4me1eoH
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1480 - 2015-06-17 09:48:41 UTC
maybe remove fleetwarp and wingwarp? but retain squadwarp?

Гайды по еве: https://www.youtube.com/user/X4me1eoH/feed?&ab_channel=X4me1eoH