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[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

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Steven Hackett
Overload This
#341 - 2015-06-12 03:54:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Steven Hackett
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Luft Reich wrote:
I see our wormhole CSM is valiantly defending the life style of people in wormhole space....Roll

Yeah, it might be good for nullsec but have you really thought about the effects on wormhole space? Clearly not.


Warping yourself or warping to Wwwww's in fleet Zomgz life is over .

Hey Manny... Go bother CCP to fix their code so we can get instant bookmarks.. Also, remove titan bridges and nerf supers.. k thx..

Manfred Sideous wrote:
Calm down , forgive me for having a little fun. The CSM are players who volunteer our time out of love for the game. I am not professional and will not be professional or political.
Feel free to do us all a favor.. and quit.. thx..
Vala Ancalagon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#342 - 2015-06-12 03:54:23 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:
Vala Ancalagon wrote:
I'm not uncalm, I just expect more from the CSM if they are going to represent the interests of players. I wouldn't expect Sugar to write something like you did in a millions years, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. You were elected to a position that affords you being able to travel around the world to meet directly with devs and talk about the game. You should be above posts that approach trolling.

Blue donut CSM represent the interests of blue donut holders, so it really is no surprise...
...that said, I agree with every troll word he spoke. The change is good, and even with the worst look at it, not the end of the world, which you seem to be sure of.


I don't think it's the end of the world, adjustments will be made if the changes go through. That doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion on the matter. I'll agree there are some end of the world posts by others, there are always doomsdayers! I respect your viewpoint.
Luft Reich
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#343 - 2015-06-12 03:56:49 UTC
Long Muppet wrote:
Luft Reich wrote:

Darn you Muppet and your reasoning!


I knew you'd go all Deadliest Catch (tm) on us, so I figured no need for me to to beat a dead krab.


Brb apologizing to the hotel for waking people up from laughing.

ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#344 - 2015-06-12 03:57:53 UTC
I'd like to see multiboxing disallowed. Then you can have fleet roles filled by different players, and the sense of accomplishment and teamwork that comes with it. Until then, you're going to have changes like this one that are made for convoluted and obscure reasons.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Davis TetrisKing
The Vendunari
End of Life
#345 - 2015-06-12 03:59:38 UTC
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
Sienna Vanjarc wrote:
Don't create boring space jobs (warpin providers), more kiting and don't make it easier just to farm kills (more stragglers, more fail warps).

Encourage brawling and hull trading, make the game more fun for everyone, not just the perfect organized, perfect skilled players.

But I like warping around cloaked sneaking up on people, providing warp ins for my bros and zipping around in a frigate tackling stranglers and dealing with the enemy fleet frigates. It is really fun.

I guess I'm playing the game wrong. Oops


Please share your fit! I would like to warp around cloaked, provide warps in, be able to tackle stragglers and deal with the enemy fleet frigates! Just not sure what ship will do all of this...
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#346 - 2015-06-12 04:00:51 UTC
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#347 - 2015-06-12 04:02:07 UTC
Davis TetrisKing wrote:
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
Sienna Vanjarc wrote:
Don't create boring space jobs (warpin providers), more kiting and don't make it easier just to farm kills (more stragglers, more fail warps).

Encourage brawling and hull trading, make the game more fun for everyone, not just the perfect organized, perfect skilled players.

But I like warping around cloaked sneaking up on people, providing warp ins for my bros and zipping around in a frigate tackling stranglers and dealing with the enemy fleet frigates. It is really fun.

I guess I'm playing the game wrong. Oops


Please share your fit! I would like to warp around cloaked, provide warps in, be able to tackle stragglers and deal with the enemy fleet frigates! Just not sure what ship will do all of this...


Pilgrim, t3, combat fitted cov-ops with balls of steel.
Davis TetrisKing
The Vendunari
End of Life
#348 - 2015-06-12 04:03:02 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Cloaky Proteus.


I knew it. Sadface. Damn T3s.
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#349 - 2015-06-12 04:04:53 UTC
Long Muppet wrote:
This isn't the least bit true. Ganks require a lot of skill and coordination.

Ganks require skill? Maybe pressing F1 is considered a skill nowadays too?

Long Muppet wrote:
Wormhole site running, done properly, is nearly risk-free. CCP has stated several times they want risk to be involved, even going so far as to suggest the might delay sigs popping up on scanner to add some risk. With the ability to close off all connections, the only way to catch these guys is to roll into them. The moment you do they notice and have the ability to warp off.

There are more ways to add risk than making an already dumbed down ganking thing even easier(hard but possible). Ganking desperately needs a skill component to it compensating for the infinite reward it offers.
I admit I'm not up to date with the new wormhole stuff, but tell me, are frig holes easy to close? That's the example of added risk.

Long Muppet wrote:
The only way to catch them is to have combat probes pre-loaded and a sabre to be "punted" to the site runners. Even when done perfectly site runners are still able to get out before your sabre lands. By adding the need to warp your scout to the site runners, we are adding precious seconds to the process, which (not even exaggerating) will likely decrease their risk further by upwards of 50%.

And, in your opinion, they shouldn't be able to get out? Just because your highness has dedicated 10 seconds of his time to multibox-punt a sabre to them?
You see, the thing about ganking is that it wins even if you do nothing. They warped out - you won, they lose. But for some people winning is just not enough I see, they want not just to cause people to bleed playtime, they want to get free stuff from them, because they took that oh-so-skilled effort to get a sabre and a scanner together and oh-so-skillfully pressed that scan button with combat probes out.
Being an autowin already, it desperately needs some skill component, but, as much as I don't like it, this change is doing it unintended.
Inslander Wessette
Unleashed' Fury
The Initiative.
#350 - 2015-06-12 04:07:26 UTC
@CCP Fozzie/Larrkin

As hunting site runner goes . Most of the time a cloaky cannot warp to the target as usually the sites are gated . warping a buzzard to get a warpin the buzzard will decloak and target runs off . For this reason we fleet warp Combat recons or interceptors using the scout .

This mechanism hampers catching site runners off guard . There may be a million of work around for this . But in the end it will come down to harder probing and the target getting away .
Grinder2210
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#351 - 2015-06-12 04:08:59 UTC
ArmEagle Kusoni wrote:
So, to run sites (in w-space) we can't easily warp there all together anymore. Everyone will need the bookmarks or have to wait for one player to have landed. Alliance bookmarks would only make that slightly less of an issue.

That's just one example of how people will become unnecessarily more vulnarable, or things taking more time.



Send one of you cloaked eyes to said site ... fleet warps to cloaked alt ... do site as normal ... Idea

That was hard .. just sayin
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#352 - 2015-06-12 04:10:09 UTC
Davis TetrisKing wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Cloaky Proteus.


I knew it. Sadface. Damn T3s.

theres always those alliance tournament ships. If you're willing to lose the cloak, some more options open up.

I geuss a cloaky interdictor kinda does that without the benefits of covops cloak. Still a blast to fly though.
Canon Makanen
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#353 - 2015-06-12 04:10:23 UTC
this is the most disappointed change EVER, This is a Big change and you never inform us before, very disappointed,
Scott Ormands
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#354 - 2015-06-12 04:12:57 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:
Scott Ormands wrote:
Jezza McWaffle wrote:
So you will now implement automatic bookmarking at a corporation and alliance level yes? Or is this just another way to **** up wormholers now. Since WE WILL have to wait for the bookmarks to propagate (up to 5-10 mins) unless we have to have a scout at the exact warp in at every single fight.

Example if you have a group consisting of more than just 1 corp.

Group A wants to fight Group B
Group A consists of multiple corps
Currently Group A can fleet warp onto the enemy fleet or wormhole without everyone involved having a propagated bookmark.
However after this change if the group does not have the bookmark then they have no way of getting into the fight at the same time as the rest of the fleet. So all fights will be delayed until everyone has the bookmarks <10 mins.

Good job CCP... Roll


+1

I can no longer warp my entire fleet to the hole and expect them to land in a cohesive group, first my T3's land and get primaried then a minute later my Bhaals land and then 2 minutes later my triage lands by that time we are all dead. And that's assuming all of us have the BM which can take quite a long time to happen. CCP i am adamantly against this change. Please reconsider.


I have a revolting solution for you:
WARP IN TURNS.
Warp your triage first, wait, warp your Bhaals, wait, warp your T3s. Properly timed, you arrive at the same time and it actually rewards you for being GUD at calculating warp timing. Your drop time would be the same as if you were in a fleet warp, and as a bonus, your fleet will not appear on dscan all at once.

Otherwise - goons are overheating rapid tear launcher on this, means the change is great, this is the best change'o'meter I know.



Sure I absolutely want to have to mental math the right time to warp my individual fleet members across my 80+AU systems so they all land in the same place at the same time. What if I dont want them to know what I'm dropping piece meal, what if I'm small gang roaming across multiple corps, more alts is not an answer. Myself and other FC's already triple box, dont make it even more complicated when it doesn't have to be. Just because there is a way around it doesn't mean they should have to be used
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#355 - 2015-06-12 04:13:39 UTC
Canon Makanen wrote:
this is the most disappointed change EVER, This is a Big change and you never inform us before, very disappointed,

actually he, mentioned it a few months back at eve down under. They surely didnt publiscize it everywhere, but thats what this thread is supposed to be for.
Budrick3
Moira.
#356 - 2015-06-12 04:14:48 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Vala Ancalagon wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Lyra Gerie wrote:
I like this change as much as I hate it. I love the idea of individuals being more responsible, but it KILLS quality of living at the same time. Unfortunately the two are fairly closely linked.

This issue goes double in wormholes where bookmarks are used almost more often for logistics than killing or fleet fights.

Perhaps a new deployable anchors and or anchor probes?

An anchor probe would show up on D-scan when launched at a 100% signal before showing on grid. They would have a warp of 4.5 AU/s and EHP around 10-25k depending on meta level and balance. After landing on grid it would auto deploy over 5-15 seconds again based on meta level and balance.

The attackers can now still warp to a target however it gives the target fair warning and time to destroy the probe before the scouts fleet can warp in.

As for deployable anchors they would stay in space for a certain amount of time or require some kind of fuel to stay anchored. There could be those that are short term used in single battles, or long term/more global anchors.



So the guy in the wormhole warps to the bookmark and WWWWWW's up. Then everyone gets fleet warped OMG THE TRAVESTY THAT THOSE EXTRA FEW SECONDS WILL CREATE. THINK OF ALL THE BELLY LENT YOU COULD HAVE PICKED IN THOSE FEW PRECIOUS SECONDS. DAMN YOU CCP DAMN YOU!!!!!!!111ON1E


This is the type of mature representation the CSM provides. Really, there are plenty of well-reasoned arguments against this change, and a few decent alternatives that would achieve the "stated goals" of this. There is no need to mock opposing views even if you don't agree with them.



Calm down , forgive me for having a little fun. The CSM are players who volunteer our time out of love for the game. I am not professional and will not be professional or political. I give feedback and suggest things to improve eve thats it. I was takin the **** because a large portion of the replies to this change are people going batshit crazy over having to warp themselves in just a few instances. I was poking fun at it. Fun in a video game discussion CRAZY I KNOW!


Poor attempt at saving face.

Rule of all holes, stop digging when you are in one.

Your embarrassing your alliance, the people that put faith in voting for you, and most of all, your embarrassing yourself.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#357 - 2015-06-12 04:16:06 UTC
I'd prefer if small groups could still be fleet warped as usual. The prober shouldn't have to be a tackler too. At least make T3s easier to probe down (and give links a weapons timer while you're at it).

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#358 - 2015-06-12 04:19:33 UTC
Budrick3 wrote:


Poor attempt at saving face.

Rule of all holes, stop digging when you are in one.

Your embarrassing your alliance, the people that put faith in voting for you, and most of all, your embarrassing yourself.


The only embarrassing thing here is you going out of your way to be offended at nothing.
Klyith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#359 - 2015-06-12 04:20:06 UTC
Since this is a nerf to the power of probing (though not a direct nerf to probes themselves), lets address the un-probable garbage in this release as well.

Metacide the ECCM modules

ECM has been nerfed multiple times over the years. I get it, ECM is kinda sucky to be on the receiving end and OP when the chance to succeed is too high. However, sensor strengths have gone up and up. Hulls with more base strength, skills to improve it, and ECCM mods that have remained just as powerful as were when ECCM was supposedly the counter to ECM. Now nobody fits ECCM as a counter because it's hardly necessary, instead it's become a counter to probing.

Sensor Backup Arrays - Change these to a flat bonus rather than the current (weak) bonus. A flat +8 to +10 would be great for small ships concerned about ECM such as T1 logi frigs.
Midslot ECCM - Lower the bonus substantially, say +66% from the current +98%. Make their overheat +50% rather than the current +30%. As a ECM counter they'd be good to run continuously, and when directly targeted by ECM ships you hit the overload for improved resistance.
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#360 - 2015-06-12 04:22:31 UTC
Scott Ormands wrote:
Orca Platypus wrote:
Scott Ormands wrote:
Jezza McWaffle wrote:
So you will now implement automatic bookmarking at a corporation and alliance level yes? Or is this just another way to **** up wormholers now. Since WE WILL have to wait for the bookmarks to propagate (up to 5-10 mins) unless we have to have a scout at the exact warp in at every single fight.

Example if you have a group consisting of more than just 1 corp.

Group A wants to fight Group B
Group A consists of multiple corps
Currently Group A can fleet warp onto the enemy fleet or wormhole without everyone involved having a propagated bookmark.
However after this change if the group does not have the bookmark then they have no way of getting into the fight at the same time as the rest of the fleet. So all fights will be delayed until everyone has the bookmarks <10 mins.

Good job CCP... Roll


+1

I can no longer warp my entire fleet to the hole and expect them to land in a cohesive group, first my T3's land and get primaried then a minute later my Bhaals land and then 2 minutes later my triage lands by that time we are all dead. And that's assuming all of us have the BM which can take quite a long time to happen. CCP i am adamantly against this change. Please reconsider.


I have a revolting solution for you:
WARP IN TURNS.
Warp your triage first, wait, warp your Bhaals, wait, warp your T3s. Properly timed, you arrive at the same time and it actually rewards you for being GUD at calculating warp timing. Your drop time would be the same as if you were in a fleet warp, and as a bonus, your fleet will not appear on dscan all at once.

Otherwise - goons are overheating rapid tear launcher on this, means the change is great, this is the best change'o'meter I know.



Sure I absolutely want to have to mental math the right time to warp my individual fleet members across my 80+AU systems so they all land in the same place at the same time. What if I dont want them to know what I'm dropping piece meal, what if I'm small gang roaming across multiple corps, more alts is not an answer. Myself and other FC's already triple box, dont make it even more complicated when it doesn't have to be. Just because there is a way around it doesn't mean they should have to be used


I have a revolting solution for you:
DELEGATE.
Have a designated fleet nerd call warps while you do whatever it is you do.