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Carnyx release - General feedback

First post First post First post
Author
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#1361 - 2015-06-08 13:08:22 UTC
Lara Divinity
Pidgeon Cartel
#1362 - 2015-06-08 14:14:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Lara Divinity
as u can see ccp on my login behaviour im playin less n less n it will eventually fade out to not play at all nomore the only thing that keeps me around is my friends, not these silly updates n changes every friggin 2 months or so these icons suck n make playin smoothly a thing from the passt u guys could have easely implemented an option for us users and subscribers to use the classic icons but even after all the feed back on sisi and on tranquility nothing changes and for god sakes why even change somthing that was working perfectly fine????????????????
is it bcos u guys gotta stay busy then go mow the lawn or take the trash out or go do som dishes or som or actually fix what is broken like the pos menus for example
its been a couple of days now n my feelings about this r just the same the icons suck n giving tthem another color will still make em suck


what will u change next month? why dont u just make the game f2p might help in keepin bigger player base jus sayin with all the changes might aswell change to f2p
Don Pera Saissore
#1363 - 2015-06-08 14:52:27 UTC
The old icons are still in the game, i just saw a Guristas shuttle and it still uses the old icon. Reverting is easy, let us have the old icons while you work on fixing the new ones.
TuCZnak
Cyber Dong Industries
#1364 - 2015-06-08 15:03:55 UTC
Don Pera Saissore wrote:
The old icons are still in the game, i just saw a Guristas shuttle and it still uses the old icon. Reverting is easy, let us have the old icons while you work on fixing the new ones.


Of course reverting is easy, even if they weren't in the game anymore. But swallowing your pride and admitting that you dun goof'd is much harder.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1365 - 2015-06-08 15:04:01 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Rats inside ghost sites are still red crosses.


Lol?? At least we have SOME red crosses left. legacy for the win!

CCP, give us option to turn new icons OFF!
Lantyss
Silver Shield
#1366 - 2015-06-08 15:18:15 UTC
Just logged in - no patch - same worthless, pathetic "new and improved" icons - same disdain and callous disregard from CCP for the players. Logged back out in frustration. Time to start paring down the alt accounts. That seems to be the only thing this bunch will take notice of. Very sad - I don't think even Blizzard is this bad....
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1367 - 2015-06-08 15:31:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Joia Crenca
Lantyss wrote:
Just logged in - no patch - same worthless, pathetic "new and improved" icons - same disdain and callous disregard from CCP for the players. Logged back out in frustration. Time to start paring down the alt accounts. That seems to be the only thing this bunch will take notice of. Very sad - I don't think even Blizzard is this bad....




Lantyss wrote:
Very sad - I don't think even Blizzard is this bad....


Unfortunately, they're worse. But coming back to EVE/CCP, it's only been a Monday. There does need to be a meeting on removing or reworking this change. But they should have enough of a response by now to determine the playerbase feeling on it. Just because they eventually stop complaining after such a strong response doesn't automatically mean they've accepted it. It likely means that they're giving up on working with CCP and moving away from EVE.

One reasonably only bangs their head against a non-responsive door for so long.
Scott Bacon
Forging Industries
Silent Infinity
#1368 - 2015-06-08 15:48:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Scott Bacon
Why not just make the overview icons a set stored on the client that can be swapped out by users? Then CCP could provide a legacy set, a new updated set, and 3rd parties could create their own custom sets.

All of Eve would be happy and much love would be showered on CCP. Players would hold hands and dance down the streets singing songs of joy, before returning to their computers to sub new accounts to see more icons.

Doesn't that sound like an update worth working on? Don't just change the icons. Add some real functionality for them!
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1369 - 2015-06-08 15:55:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Natya Mebelle
Dear CCP,

We know it is only monday afternoon in Iceland, and that things are probably still underway on how to deal with this scenario. I hope we're going to get at least a message that you're still debating what the best course of action is. That would be at least better than nothing.

We know you left some old icons in the client, it has been mentioned and spotted often enough since launch. But that's not so bad, you know? There are probably a lot of database entries that need be changed and overwritten with the new icons. That's okay, nobody is perfect, mistakes can happen. Though I'm not sure if this is an indicator that all old icons are still in the game. My educated guess is; no, it was just an oversight and those icons should have been overwritten by different ones.

I sincerely hope you are working on a quick solution to make the icons optional, and notify us that the "new icons" are now a beta feature to opt in, so that more people can give you feedback based upon them. This will give you more time to gather feedback while not disgruntling your players or rendering them impossible to play your game.
Also, please let us know that you are working on it if you do, and don't let us keep starving for information.
If you are unable to deliver such a change in a reasonable timeframe, then it would be in your best of interest to either rollback the icons, or start a very large survey. The forum is not enough.
Based on this feedback, you hopefully will make an informed decision of how to deal with this situation next.

Your reasons why you wanted to change the icons are known and I'm sure a large portion of people will at least understand where you are coming from. But the direction you took is less than ideal.
And even IF you made astoundingly perfect icons, and even IF there would be no issue with the scaling, it STILL would have been better to be on the safe side and implement them as beta feature first.

There are a lot of people who don't like the icons and still play the game because of the social bonds they did there and because of the activity to be in eve online itself is still enough to keep them there. But this connection is wearing thinner with each huge change you're bringing that is that is to a players dislike.
But there are also people who like the icons. Now it is important to find common denominators of why people like them and why people dislike them. It will not only depend on their physical ability to see things or their mental ability to change, but it will also play a large part in what the are doing in the game. There are many people who only care about ship icons.

In turn, I have never seen anyone explicitly saying the new player structure icons are bad. Does that mean there is nobody disliking them? No, it does not.

I urge you to implement an ingame feedback tool very, very soon. You have a very good ticket system. You should use a similar system for feedback. This will allow you to reach a lot more players than those who go to the forums, or elsewhere.

You know pushing the starmap as live default was a mistake, but at least you kept the old one in there.
You know making opportunities a default despite the negative feedback, and deleting all Aura tutorials (even the one previously accessible through F12) was a mistake. Both are undeniable facts, and any attempt to turn them around, will be squashed and countered by a lot more solid evidence in return.

I don't need to be a rocket scientist to look at the annual player counter history to see where you did something wrong, and indicators are huge that you're on a very declining trend currently.

That dip at mid 2011 to 2012 was Incarna for a good amount, by the way. You learned something from that. Please, learn something else from this situation here too. We don't want our Eve to be wrecked by bad marketing decisions :c
The fast paced update schedule was already a risky idea to begin with.
Alea
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1370 - 2015-06-08 17:20:20 UTC
I've tried to get used to the new icons, played on sisi before they come to TQ hoping that one day they would start to work for me, but so far they are more of a PITA than anything, I do like the corps icon though but the rest can go to hell..

Remember the bad icon changes for modules a few years ago.? Can you please do the same with these new icons, or at least have them as an option so I can start playing Eve again.

In short.. New icons bad, old (nothing wrong with them) icons good.. Please revert or have the ability to switch them off so we can use the older ones, K thanks.

Whomever is making the last few years decisions on what changes are to be implemented in this game, must hate Eve with all their being.

Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#1371 - 2015-06-08 18:35:20 UTC
Here's a little visualisation that perfectly sums up how I see CCPs latest work, especially with regard to overview icons, ingame map and UI icons:

CCP at work

Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#1372 - 2015-06-08 18:40:33 UTC
Tao Dolcino wrote:
Indeed, CSM, where are you ? Funny, each time there is a true crisis between the players and CCP, the CSM disappears Shocked
Won't you help us have the option to choose between the old and the new icons, just like the map ? Is it too much asking ?


Some of the CSM don't even log in and play the same game as you or I do on a daily or weekly basis.
Some of the CSM don't bother with that whole undocking and seeing ships interact on grid thing.
Elect a stronger CSM that actually cares about the things you do, that actually plays the game like you do next time. Blink

CSM may actually listen to 60+ pages of feedback though, and may have actually taken the overwhelming amount of bad feedback on the test forums to mean something.

I really do not get why you even have a test server and a feedback forum if you are going to ignore it entirely. Bad show. On the other hand, whomever is in charge of the new map is exceptionally foresighted and at least no so arrogant as to shove un-wanted change down the throats of players.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Shpongled Victim
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1373 - 2015-06-08 20:23:47 UTC
I would like to add the only thing i dislike is the visual change of the rocks/asteroids. They look from WoW or warhammer and dont fit into this imo. at least more variations of texture and shapes, the old ones were kinda special, "spaced out", some shiny metals in the cracks, cratered surfaces and so on. Thise new ones are just ugly, boring and depressing (thank god im not a miner)
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#1374 - 2015-06-08 20:24:40 UTC
Altrue wrote:
I would like to suggest swapping the "Agent in Space" icon and the "Beacon" icon.

I suggest to remove 'beacon abomination icon" and make "agent is space icon" "sun" icon. Then restore gates and stations to previous icons. The icons we see the most are the worst in this whole mess.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Staxu
Cyrk stracencow
#1375 - 2015-06-08 20:29:18 UTC
Well hello.

I don't know is it only me, but in "old map" after switch from solar system to star map, control panel goes off, can not find it. so I'm no able to scan my wh. I would have to use new map which is good only as star map, as a solar system map is laggy and makes only problems.

Is there anyone with this same problem?
I've sent petition on 4'th june and I'm still waiting. Even reset all settings didn't help.

Regards
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1376 - 2015-06-08 20:55:08 UTC
Let us do a lesson in Eve history c:

Turret icon history wrote:
Incarna 1.0 ( 2011-06-21 ) : Turret icons now correctly represent the look of the turret.

* five months later... *

Crucible 1.0 ( 2011-11-29 ) : It was difficult to distinguish between fitted turrets on ships with the new turret icons. Until new icons have been made the old icons are being re-introduced into the user interface.

Forced Captain's Quarters history wrote:
Incarna 1.0 ( 2011-06-21 ) : The station hangar has been replaced with Captain's Quarters. Capsuleers can now, for the first time, step out of their pod and stretch their legs in their personal quarters.

* four months later... *

Incarna 1.1.2 ( 2011-10-18 ) : The station hangar is returning with all of its previous functionality.

~ ~ ~
And of course, it took a few other sub-patches until everybody got a fix to keep memorizing client settings to STAY in hangar for everyone. Even then, it took until June 2012 for Inferno 1.1 to really appreciate Captain's quarters for those who wanted to try them out due to:
The memory usage of the main screen in Captains Quarters has been improved.




Dear CCP,

how many months will it take this time until something will be done with the icons? Not to mention the opportunities.
How long will it take to see a public statement and consequences again?

Statements like CCP Hellmar apologizing and the related effects brought Eve back on track for the most part. Sadly, the bottom of the devblog is not readable any more because website updates changed at some point how devblog links worked. That means the heavy words of "doing what we say and saying what we do" leads to nothing. Which is a shame, I'm sure everybody here would like to read that.

Now, who knows if the stepping down of CCP Zulu was part of these consequences? CCP Unifex stepped into these shoes of becoming Senior Producer. This was late December, 2011.

Somewhere around October 2012, CCP Ripley said she was now the new Senior Producer, which apparently made CCP Unifex Executive Producer.
Shortly after, in January 2013, CCP Unifex told how he would split the Senior Producer role into two, keeping CCP Ripley and introducing CCP Seagull as second person on the job. CCP Seagull promptly wrote a very enthusiastic response which was a very good read.
3 months later, it was mentioned how a new Executive officer will be sought after inside the company, as CCP Unifex would step down to continue a different road inside the company.

CCP Seagull was involved in making probing a better thing and also announced the increased update schedule of Eve online that was apparently a decision of the entire board. Here I I got wary of how this is would be turning out. The idea to bring more fresh content faster is one thing, but pretty much everybody knows that quantity doesn't mean quality.
More updates means more expectations from players. Faster work on content means less quality testing and less bugs being fixed. Other developers have displayed these issues in great failures. I was worried that CCP would make the same mistake.

But listening to CCP Seagull opening the Fanfest 2014 keynote really made me think we have a person that sits at the right place and will help steer Eve online to a better place.

I don't know who was executive producer between the time when it was announced where CCP Unifex would be stepping down in April 2013, and the official note of CCP Seagull being the new one in July 2014. While I have read conflicting information of things she said before and after, and that balance was wildly wiggling, I still remained hopeful for Eve's future and gave her the benefit of doubt.

Now, if you think I'm pointing fingers here, then you're wrong. I just want to ask... what happened? Where and how have all these decisions come together which started to make Eve a worse place than before, with half-hearted and unfinished development processes ? Who is responsible for this? Is it CCP Seagull's ambition that wears Eve online down, or is she one of those trying to save as much as possible? I don't look for a scapegoat. I search for answers. All I can do is following breadcrumbs of information.

We all know that something is going on. Player statistics don't lie, and in the same fashion the update schedule increased, the player numbers decreased. And never has the promise of making the world be more connected to the player been fulfilled. Never.
And please don't come to me with the "summer hole." In 2010 and 2013 Eve has seen a RISE in player count. 2010 even marked the player peak for this year in summer.

But now... how much does the game and it's participants need to suffer before we face another apology of CCP Hellmar and the resulting consequences?

You know... I just want to play Eve but... it gets more and more difficult at heart ... :C
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1377 - 2015-06-08 21:45:09 UTC
Natya Mebelle wrote:
Let us do a lesson in Eve history c:


But now... how much does the game and it's participants need to suffer before we face another apology of CCP Hellmar and the resulting consequences?

You know... I just want to play Eve but... it gets more and more difficult at heart ... :C


First line is the lesson - Beach Balls is my vision of Devs hard at work

Great history lesson. My question is - Why didn't CCP learn from past mistakes?

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#1378 - 2015-06-08 23:21:22 UTC
Joia Crenca wrote:
Unfortunately, they're worse. But coming back to EVE/CCP, it's only been a Monday. There does need to be a meeting on removing or reworking this change. But they should have enough of a response by now to determine the playerbase feeling on it.
They already had sufficient feedback before it hit TQ. The thing that gets at me is they already had all of this same feedback (also in less angry forms) from the sisi thread. I'm still lost as to why they just ignored it and decided to spawn a threadnaught about it. Every single one of us that poured our time into the sisi thread should be compensated for warning them while knowing full well there was a 99.99% chance we were being ignored anyways.

Joia Crenca wrote:
Just because they eventually stop complaining after such a strong response doesn't automatically mean they've accepted it. It likely means that they're giving up on working with CCP and moving away from EVE.

One reasonably only bangs their head against a non-responsive door for so long.
You must forget, this is CCP standard practice for gauging the acceptance or player agreement with change. People just stop caring, the issue is still there, and still sucks, but CCP usually wins in the end by sheer willpower of not listening anymore.

Vic Jefferson wrote:
I really do not get why you even have a test server and a feedback forum if you are going to ignore it entirely. Bad show. On the other hand, whomever is in charge of the new map is exceptionally foresighted and at least no so arrogant as to shove un-wanted change down the throats of players.
Well, they have actually stopped responding to a lot of the still incredibly valid concerns about the new map, so my money says they will nuke the old one here soon. And then tell us to give it a few days to get ourselves used to the change.

Natya Mebelle wrote:
CCP Seagull was involved in making probing a better thing and also announced the increased update schedule of Eve online that was apparently a decision of the entire board. Here I I got wary of how this is would be turning out. The idea to bring more fresh content faster is one thing, but pretty much everybody knows that quantity doesn't mean quality.
More updates means more expectations from players. Faster work on content means less quality testing and less bugs being fixed. Other developers have displayed these issues in great failures. I was worried that CCP would make the same mistake.
Part of the core problem is instead of utilizing these spread out release cycles to allow many different teams to spend a year developing something to be included in one of these 10 releases, they are trying to force the urgent/quick development of rushed features for the next upcoming release. They need to almost take a pause in their schedule and focus on quality, maybe even putting back the release for all currently developing features by a few releases to allow them more time for proper design and testing and feedback. When they push out these new features so quickly there is usually very little time for feedback, and by the time it even hits sisi (frequently less than a week from TQ) its too late to make required changes so it goes live broken anyways.

I have seen a pattern in my own playstyle lately, becoming much less concerned and logging in much less often, if only for some social interactions, but much less often for actually playing the game than I used to.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#1379 - 2015-06-08 23:22:01 UTC
Still don;t get the issue with the new icons, i ran a sleeper site last night had had no issues figuring out what was what. But i guess change scares people. meh

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#1380 - 2015-06-09 00:15:54 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Still don;t get the issue with the new icons, i ran a sleeper site last night had had no issues figuring out what was what. But i guess change scares people. meh


They are perfectly fine when there are a limited number of types on one overview tab. Try them in other circumstances then let me know how you feel.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?