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Carnyx release - General feedback

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Jayden Thomas
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#881 - 2015-06-03 21:40:16 UTC
Three things:

1. First and foremost I'm happy ya'll up there in CCP are busy at work trying to make this the coolest internet spaceship game on the planet. Your hard work is appreciated and you're doing a super fine job. I still absolutely love this game.

2. I'm sorry, but ship textures are getting bad. Several of these ships look like they're made out of plastic. (That thanatos is really bad) It REALLY takes away from the realism, that immersion, that I've come to appreciate when I logon. I'm sure the development on this stuff has probably cost you guys a fortune, and I hate to complain, but #feedback_is_good right?

3. I too don't care for the new ship icons on the overview. Rollback requested.
Kern Hotha
#882 - 2015-06-03 21:46:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Kern Hotha
The new shaders are wonderful - great work. Eve is looking more beautiful than ever.

Regarding the icons: I use 90% scaling simply because in any game where I have the choice I will always make the UI as minimal as possible. It has been already been reported that the icons are faint at this scaling so I remain hopeful the icons be altered to accommodate the smaller scaling. It was not a change that seemed necessary to me, but perhaps in time the new icons will be more efficient.

We distinguish the excellent man from the common man by saying that the former is the one who makes great demands upon himself, and the latter who makes no demands on himself.

Jose Ortega y Gasset (1883 - 1955)
Mutaat
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#883 - 2015-06-03 21:48:19 UTC
The game is great and I like the constant free updates, but for the love of God, fix the damn launcher or at least update the repair.exe tool. Launcher has never worked right on my Win7 64bit machine, now repair.exe is broken. I used the workaround and installed the pre-release version of launcher. That threw errors after today's patch. I worry that every time there is a new patch that all the workarounds I have to use to update my client won't work.
Ichtys kuromitsu
Fit me I'm famous
#884 - 2015-06-03 21:52:38 UTC
The sentry nerf is to much for non ishtar /dominix user ... Can you tweak this ? And Nerf Ishtar hull or whatever else ? Cry
Jeven HouseBenyo
Vanity Thy Name Is
#885 - 2015-06-03 22:13:09 UTC
Alex Garden wrote:
Да чтоб вас перевернуло вверх задом, вы что творите? Автора последнего патча надо на кол посадитьEvil
Иконки в овере информации не несут, в ангаре на станции трюм вылетает постоянно, не помогает сброс окон, только релогон. Черти вы.


No clue what he said, but there's a very unhappy emote in it so I'll fake it and decide he's not thrilled about something. Wonder what it could be? Shocked

Went rock eating this morning for about an hour and a half. Looted... empty and full wrecks, as I couldn't tell them apart so I just looted on principle. Some 'thing' warped it, reading far right details let me know a Golem was sitting a few thousand meters from my Skiff. Well no targeting and ouchie so I guess I didn't look too tasty. Then again, he might've been reading details to figure out what I was and if I was worth the target and ouchie as well.

Had to log out, both from RL needing some standing work and the beginnings of a nasty headache was ramping up on the right side of my skull. I doubt I'll 'get used' to this new icon set. I'm already fiddling with contrast, brightness, tint etc. as the graphics get brighter and brighter.

Asked a few peeps I know some questions, these non-gamers gave rather fascinating answers. To the Cad-Cam using architect, is it easier to scale up or shrink down an addition to an office complex on your software? Answer: stretch is easier than smoosh. Another is a computer software programming major currently in college. Which set of coding is easier to write? Upsize a segment of text, or downsize? Answer: easier to start small and scale up than start large and keep the text legible during compressing it's size.

For a base test subject, asked a CHEF who is so tech inept that his flip phone regularly wins their contests of wits, is it easier to double a recipe for a larger number of cookies, or take a larger but not full double batch one and cut it smaller for fewer cookies? Answer: doubling easier than dividing base ingredient amounts.

So my question to CCP is this: If it's known that whatever you are using to scale from 100% down to 90% is not top end and is an ongoing roadblock, why did you START at 100% and smoosh, instead of following a more logical and easier path, start small and expand? The cash was spent so that 'dirt' could be added to ship graphics. Just how much does that quality scaling machine of Uberness cost?

>Jeven

Just to mess with that thread stat thingy Chribba has.... icons bad icons bad icons bad. Roll

Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.

'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.

Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.

Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P

No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
Blue Harrier
#886 - 2015-06-03 22:26:32 UTC
In general I don’t find the new icons too bad, however as I am colour blind I find the very small red icons very difficult to see against most backgrounds.

In fact for the first time ever I missed an incoming belt rat warping right next to my mining ship. The older red crosses although simple and not so ‘cool’ or ‘forward thinking’ were none the less far easier for me to see as the cross bars were that much bigger and held more colour.

"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
Jeven HouseBenyo
Vanity Thy Name Is
#887 - 2015-06-03 22:28:19 UTC
Dan Seavey Allier wrote:


All in all, a good patch.

I'm a little disappointed in the rantings of those who are reacting so negatively to the icon changes.

These were comprehensively announced weeks ago in the dev blogs.
These have been on SISI for some time now.

I hope everyone who is losing their **** here was active on the test servers up until now.....offering more constructive criticism
than the childish, self absorbed, self entitled ranting like I'm seeing in this thread.

There are no surprises here. You were more than forewarned, and your feedback is constantly solicited ALL THE TIME for EVERY CHANGE.

To wake up one day and kick and scream when you had every opportunity to help prevent or modify changes you did not prefer only undermines your current outbursts.

Now adapt, or die.


Dan





Yes, they solicited our feedback. And when it was not as they wished it to be.. silence started on that Test Server thread. I am one of those that peeked over at Sisi and saw the upcoming icon change. Added more constructive suggestions there than I am adding here. This is not an 'out of the blue' or 'we didn't know!' situation. The ranting here is a result of ignored and/or overruled feedback long before it hit TQ. So the assumption becomes, CCP will ask for feedback but it'll get filed in the 'recycle bin' if not fitting to 'The Vision" inbound.

Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.

'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.

Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.

Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P

No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
beakerax
Pator Tech School
#888 - 2015-06-03 22:38:05 UTC
I'm not keen on NPCs using basically the same icons as players.
Jeven HouseBenyo
Vanity Thy Name Is
#889 - 2015-06-03 22:41:03 UTC
Wiccerakith wrote:
also ich gratuliere was habt ihr denn für n schlechten **** geraucht das euch diese symbole eingefallen sind.... und gleich vorweg !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AN DEN SCHROTT WILL ICH MICH NICHT MAL IM ANSATZ GEWÖHNEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mal davon ab das der mist für verzögerungen im spiel sorgt nein die symbole sind zudem noch grotten häßlich und verwirrend ..
hätte da mal ne idee für euch wenn ihr die sooo toll findet malt euch die aufs auto an euer haus oder auf die wand aber bitte belästigt uns damit nicht weiter oder gebt uns die wahl die alten zeichen nutzen zu können.
und das bitte gestern !!!!



Think that word 'symbole' might be something similar to 'shorthand visual sprite' or 'icon'. With the number of exclamation points he's either super happy with something dealing with 'symbole' or he's really really torqued off about that same word.

Soooooo... a timeline to that 'classic icon' check mark addition please?

I do know that nein is most likely a 'negatory there ghostrider' in my 'Merican translation.

>Jeven

Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.

'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.

Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.

Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P

No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#890 - 2015-06-03 22:43:48 UTC
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:
To the Cad-Cam using architect, is it easier to scale up or shrink down an addition to an office complex on your software? Answer: stretch is easier than smoosh. Another is a computer software programming major currently in college. Which set of coding is easier to write? Upsize a segment of text, or downsize? Answer: easier to start small and scale up than start large and keep the text legible during compressing it's size.
Yes, even though both use different systems (vector based versus fixed pixel based), in both cases it is better to expand than contract. But the issue here is a bit more delicate due to the tiny resolution. Even if this was a vector based system, we would still suffer from blurred edges because the differences simply don't fit on the pixels on the screen properly. This is why hand-crafted icons for each scale are inevitable in the long run.

Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:
So my question to CCP is this: If it's known that whatever you are using to scale from 100% down to 90% is not top end and is an ongoing roadblock, why did you START at 100% and smoosh, instead of following a more logical and easier path, start small and expand?
Well, the icons don't look good upscaled either. The answer most likely is; their recorded demographics told them that the majority of players use 100% UI scale.
Maybe less nice people would say they used the majority of what devs use in the office. I prefer thinking the statistical demographic thing, which is also the default for players to start the game with.
Louanne Barros
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#891 - 2015-06-03 22:50:09 UTC
Some of the icons are growing on me with use, and I do like how easy it is to tell destroyers/battlecruisers apart from their smaller kin now.

That being said, they scale very poorly, and have reduced contrast in some cases for the yellow 'waypoint' highlighting.
Being able to choose our own colors instead of yellow, red, etc would go a long way I think.
I am probably going to have to change my UI color scheme to make the new icons more visible.
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#892 - 2015-06-03 23:05:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Myriad Blaze
Some amendments to my earlier feedback:

Just came back from an engagement with roughly 100 ships on grid. Was flying bombers, zoomed out and with the grid overlay activated.

From my view it was almost impossible to differentiate between frigates and scout drones (no idea if there were other drones; the drones I mouse overed were Warrior IIs). The icons appear to have the same size, have the same basic shape and move nearly with the same speed. To tell which is which I either needed to mouse over or pay close attention for a moment. Unfortunately my concentration is elsewhere when I try to deliver a bomb to my targets and I simply don't have that time.

The main fleets were more or less crowded together resulting in a colored blob not unlike what we had before. However, the new icons were completely useless in that situation whereas the old icons usually allowed a good guess on general fleet setup.

Moreover cyno beacons (and jove listening towers) use a symbol that can be confused with a frigate icon and what's more important, it's a symbol that doesn't stand out. In the old overview a cyno beacon was very easy to percieve. But now there are a lot more icons that have a more or less similar style which makes it a lot harder to see it (at least for me).

Wreck icons are not really working either. They seem to be ok on paper, but with a larger number of ships and drones on the field they just don't stand out enough.

The new pod icon is what I would have expected for a shuttle (the icon looks like a small frigate icon). It's not really intuitive. The old pod icon was many times better and actually made sense.

It should also be mentioned, that we encountered some NPCs on our way to the battlefield. And I must say that it's really silly to give NPCs the same icons as player ships. Sure, when they are red, they stand out (unless you're colorblind). But when they are white, you wonder why someone brought an industrial instead of a valid fleet ship.


Yesterday I was checking out icons in Jita and surroundings and I thought it was bad.
Now I think it is much worse.
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#893 - 2015-06-03 23:47:56 UTC
Love new shaders but please give us option for higher res textures.

PS: How about some love for T3 cruisers. Those ships were last on list to balance and now last on list to get visual updates.
Shpongled Victim
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#894 - 2015-06-04 00:14:16 UTC
Some posts makes me facepalm...many "customers" overestimate thier status in the relation to the Dev´s....
Lara Divinity
Pidgeon Cartel
#895 - 2015-06-04 00:33:06 UTC
Playerbase loading ..... .... ...still loading....... ...only trials found starting downtime
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#896 - 2015-06-04 00:36:59 UTC
Shpongled Victim wrote:
dunno why ppl complain about the UI/Neocom colours, theres a option to choose between different themes. Or do i get it wrong?



This is actually about the color and type of new icons on the overview where you see your targets/enemies. They changed from the crosses and other small icons to the new triangles and such. The biggest thing I can see as a problem is not quickly seeing the difference between an NPC and a Player, or not as quickly as before. The other thing is that they can be blurry for a number of people.

That's what was meant with icon colors.


It looks like people that enjoy PVP most are having the hardest time with this, and even though I don't PVP much, I can easily see the frustration caused by this change.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#897 - 2015-06-04 00:37:51 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Natya Mebelle wrote:


Eli Stan wrote:
I spent a few hours over the weekend PvPing on SISI and found the new icons useful for telling different ship types apart when looking at the battlefield. Much better than differently sized squares. This will help tremendously with small gang operations, IMO.
Actually - and I do realize that this might be unique for me and doesn't apply to everybody, or even anybody, else - it's extremely easy for me to tell neutral NPCs from other players after this patch. It's not by icon, which I've never used to begin with. That's becauseall players are colored to me - purple for fleetmates, red/yellow for legal lowsec targets, and teal for everybody else. It makes it extremely easy to pick out ships from non-ships on the overview.


I have make bold one small detail you have completely missed reading his post. He has 'COLORED' all the players.

So now we NEED to use SPECIAL settings to OVERCOME unneeded change IGNORING new UI ideology: "colors are not needed" (look at Neocom).

You really think it is ok? Shocked

Wait are you saying colors are not needed or that colors are?

I dunno, I do like the clean monocolor look a lot (its very modern and minimalistic) its just that I was better at finding what I wanted faster, back when the icons had color.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#898 - 2015-06-04 00:38:13 UTC
Well after a few small-gang engagements, I can confirm that the new symbols are great at quickly distinguishing between ship sizes. I can imagine this being even more useful for newer players that are unaware of the various ships in EvE. It's a million times more useful than the previous method, which I just ignored and focused solely on the type of vessel. Nice work CCP!!! Lol

I always enjoy how every. single. patch. is followed with a wave of revulsion. How is it that EvE players are the least adaptable to change?

My only question is why the original symbols that were floated in the dev blog here weren't used. They were a lot cooler, and I'm sure would have prompted (slightly) less disagreement. Perhaps you should try to change to them?

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#899 - 2015-06-04 00:40:58 UTC
Natya Mebelle wrote:
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:
To the Cad-Cam using architect, is it easier to scale up or shrink down an addition to an office complex on your software? Answer: stretch is easier than smoosh. Another is a computer software programming major currently in college. Which set of coding is easier to write? Upsize a segment of text, or downsize? Answer: easier to start small and scale up than start large and keep the text legible during compressing it's size.
Yes, even though both use different systems (vector based versus fixed pixel based), in both cases it is better to expand than contract. But the issue here is a bit more delicate due to the tiny resolution. Even if this was a vector based system, we would still suffer from blurred edges because the differences simply don't fit on the pixels on the screen properly. This is why hand-crafted icons for each scale are inevitable in the long run.

Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:
So my question to CCP is this: If it's known that whatever you are using to scale from 100% down to 90% is not top end and is an ongoing roadblock, why did you START at 100% and smoosh, instead of following a more logical and easier path, start small and expand?
Well, the icons don't look good upscaled either. The answer most likely is; their recorded demographics told them that the majority of players use 100% UI scale.
Maybe less nice people would say they used the majority of what devs use in the office. I prefer thinking the statistical demographic thing, which is also the default for players to start the game with.

I hope all the people switching to 100% as a last resort doesn't mess with their statistics further. If they collect any.
DHuncan
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#900 - 2015-06-04 00:41:30 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
DHuncan wrote:
Natascha Kerenski wrote:
DHuncan wrote:
DHuncan wrote:
I logged, undocked, saw the icons, docked back again and logged off.


Stop liking this post. It was the most stupid post I ever wrote and yet, by far, the one got more likes. CCP is doing a great job and that's why we are here. We have the chance to work with them by telling how we would change things. Acting like spoiled babies is not going to make this communication any easier for neither part.

Some of the icons may be ambiguous but the most complaints are cause YOU dont want to evolve. Well, this is EvE, carebears, adapt or DIE.



It is not that i dont want to evolve and i think the majority of people who have problems with the new icons think
about this very similar, it is that i dont want to adapt to a system that isnt working for me at all.

The new icon system is not build intuitive nor consistent or logicaly...about the optical appearence, that point
is argueable cause different people have differen taste and as long as ccp doesnt come up with smileys and pink stuff
ill maybe accept it.....AS LONG AS IT IS WORKING!

At this state i am not able to do decisions within a second and ill stay docked until ccp comes up with an solution
i can live with.....best way i can imagine is they give us a fallback and work the new icon system out to a state wich is
working and let people do quick decisions again.


The "I don't want to adapt to something not for me" is the same argument we hear from people when saying I dont want to pvp, leave me alone. And what we are hearing as an answer for almost a decade? This is not a sand box, maybe this game is not for you etc. I didnt like the answer the first time and I still dont like it. But this is not your game nor my game but a game need to find the ballance between so many oposite wills.

My point is, we have the cahnce to offer a feedback, we can say 'ok but the ice asteroid and the capsule icons are too similar' for example, and we may get a middle ground. But just the classical assholness, really, aren't we all tired of it already? Let's be constructive, we may opinate, even disagree, but like adults. That's the point.

I think it works because doesnt take away any info we previously had and instead is givin info we didnt have before. IMHO


Whist for some, there may be a resistance to any change, but I contend these are the minority. Most people are against BAD change however.
The process you suggest of giving reasoned feedback, actually happened. On SISI, and we were relieved when the first attempt was shelved. However a new, uglier version was then released that addressed precisely ZERO of the suggestions and problems identified.

We now have something that is less legible, less useful, and less attractive than the classic Icons. They fail miserably when scaled, are over complex, difficuilt to distinguish, and cause some physical pain with eye strain.

Adding a slight amendmant to the classic icon would have solved things, giving All the worthwhile benefits of the new ones. Instead We now have Ooh it's a NPC destroyer, possibly, or loot, maybe. Can't tell for the other 300 icons covering it, why is that shooting me? It's a player???
.........But Nice corpse icon ........

Not a lot of plus sides there.

We identified that this would result in a massive trainwreck on sisi, and we hoped sanity would prevail, only to find, they put the foot hard on the throttle.


Fair enough. Why CCP say they are ssssooooooo attentive to this thread feedback? Is not a bad question, is it?

What did you say about CODE?