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Carnyx release - General feedback

First post First post First post
Author
Panterata
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#781 - 2015-06-03 15:35:39 UTC
Oliver Delorean wrote:
Get useto with new icons. Changes need to come and new icons look ok.
Some of u whine like 16 year old girls broke up with their first boyfriend.


m8 people do not want to use-to it! People already use to it with the old ones.

If you want to use new one -ok. But the people which do not want to use they must have the old one icons - simple

That's it!!
Sean Roach
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#782 - 2015-06-03 15:38:52 UTC
I think more options for the overview is good.
Give us the ability to select old/new on a per-class, or even a per class/race basis. Not messing with 'rats? Or you can solo all that will appear with just your drones? Turn them back to red crosses and ignore. Need to immediately spot when someone's entered your belt with a catamaran? Turn gallente/destroyers to a red version of the new icon. Save both in the overview.

Default settings can be the old icons or the new. Let us pick and choose, and share our best-practice overviews among our corp/fleet mates.


CCP Surge wrote:
Porucznik Borewicz wrote:
OK, so after an actual elite PVP fleet I have some more feedback regarding the new overview icons / brackets. Apart from the fact that the drones Xes need to come back, because the new icons look just silly and clutter the view anyway, there is one major issue with the new icons - they are unreadable when no standings / background colours are set towards a neutral player you are fighting. Stuff just looks too much the same. And the more things you have on your OV the more you are screwed. The new icons are OK-ish in a way. You could get used to them. We just need a more "at a glance" way to tell the player controlled ships in space. Like a colour maybe. Making the player ships green for instance would help me a lot. And I bet a lot of colour blind people would also welcome the option to change player ships colour. Right now, everything on the OV that is not a waypoint object (stargate, station) has the same colour. The other way would be reverting the old brackets for player ships.

TL;DR: Let me change the player controlled ships icons colour and it will be much better.


Hey, thanks for sharing your experience. And keeping in mind color blindness :) I agree NPC distinction is rather nuanced with the new icon set - NPC icons have a faint inner fill compared to players ships.

We also color hostile NPCs red by default, but we don't allow players to change this, or set any color for the icons themselves besides background and colortags.

Anyone else think a custom "icon color" would be a good option to expose to aid in situational awareness?

Red Deck
The Tebo Corp
#783 - 2015-06-03 15:39:59 UTC
CCP Surge wrote:
Joia Crenca wrote:


Thanks for responding!

I'm also getting the feeling that it's not just at 90% that it's a problem, and even after some time, the testing folks still were not happy. We were actually given the same response during Incarna, concerning the unusable/unreadable UI icons then.


Hi, let me reclarify a bit here.

The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. Specifically our UI renderer doesn't support any texture filtering or anti-aliasing, which makes any non-100% scale texture look pretty bad across the UI. It's particularly blatant when scaling single-pixel wide strokes as in the new icons.

And unfortunately re-writing the UI renderer, or bolting on some AA tech is just an item that hasn't made it to the top of the engine team's priority list. But we're aware of the issue.

In the end we support "UI scaling" functionality to some extent, but don't have the proper tech in place to make the experience feel great at anything other than 100% at the moment.

I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?

Wow.

Just wow.

So CCP knew their UI scaler was unable to scale pixel-sharp objects properly and yet considered it a good idea to push the new icons through?

CCP, have a long hard look at the old icons - the reason why nobody complained about how they looked, scaled or not, was that whoever designed them actually considered what your scaler could and couldn't do (I can't believe they would have been so cleverly designed just by coincidence). The shapes were chosen (and implemented) so that they would scale acceptably even with a crappy scaler.

THIS ALONE IS A REASON GOOD ENOUGH TO REVERT BACK TO THE OLD ICONS - at least until you can improve the UI scaler so that it scales sharp pixel-sized objects properly.
Mary Lich
The Night Watchmen
Goonswarm Federation
#784 - 2015-06-03 15:40:35 UTC
Huge FPS increase on the old v-card!
CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#785 - 2015-06-03 15:48:29 UTC
Aeon Veritas wrote:
Thanks for the clarification!


Now lets talk about the by far most discused feature of this patch, the icons....
Can you at least tell us that they will be reconsidered?
It's really not my place to comment on features developed by another team. As Claymore and Surge have already said they are reading and considering all your feedback.

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Rexxorr
Perkone
Caldari State
#786 - 2015-06-03 15:49:29 UTC
New icons are fantastic :-) . I have a request though, change the icons so you know what size wreck you have. :-)
Shpongled Victim
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#787 - 2015-06-03 15:50:16 UTC
I didnt have a problem addapting to the new icons. i have 22" screen in HD and everything is sharp and easy to see.
Desas
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#788 - 2015-06-03 15:52:53 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Aeon Veritas wrote:
Thanks for the clarification!


Now lets talk about the by far most discused feature of this patch, the icons....
Can you at least tell us that they will be reconsidered?
It's really not my place to comment on features developed by another team. As Claymore and Surge have already said they are reading and considering all your feedback.



well go around the office and slap them with their own keyboard (since they are obviously not using it ) till they are willing to get a statement here.

I dont know for what they are waiting ... the feedback is pretty mutch the same with a couple differntions .... besides that they ignored the sisi feedback already so?


still an upset Desas
Rexxorr
Perkone
Caldari State
#789 - 2015-06-03 15:59:25 UTC
Ships are looking quite good, please continue to update themBig smile
Perseus Hagakure
Perkone
Caldari State
#790 - 2015-06-03 16:12:55 UTC
The new Icons are really unusable if UI is scaled at 90%
Lisa Sophie d'Elancourt
Empusa.
#791 - 2015-06-03 16:21:36 UTC
New ships icons are terrible, overview in not intuitive and very confusing. I appreciate work, but result makes main game tool almost useless.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#792 - 2015-06-03 16:31:06 UTC
Regarding the icons:
- revert back the NPC ships to crosses (should never be confused with player ships)
- give player ships back a unique element making them at first glance distinguishable from everything else in game
- some icon polishing, e.g. the beacon and depot icon look ugly

I'm my own NPC alt.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#793 - 2015-06-03 16:46:09 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Ok a little summation, to make it easy to read for the Devs.

There is an issue with scaling that many people use. this increases the magnitude of the issues people are encountering.

There is an issue with the aesthetics, this is a matter of opinion, and even though players may not like it, is not gamebreaking.

There is a serious issue of legibility with the smaller icons,and the more cluttered icons at all scaling settings. This is Game-breaking for the players affected. they (myself included) cannot adapt to that we cannot clearly see.

There is a significant issue with over complication of the overview and screen icons. Less is more.

There is an issue with differentiating player and NPC icons. this has serious consequences to game play.

Potential resolutions.

1. Roll back to classic Icons.

2. Offer classic icons as an alternative.

3. Create modified classic icon set with bottom sector part filled in to differentiate battlecruisers/cruisers and Frigates/destroyers. and no other changes.

4. Use A new design, seriously reduce the number of new icons, and redesign to differentiate NPC and player icons. Probably as described in 3.

5. Do nothing and expect players to grow new, improved, eyes.

(I half joke, but the reality is, without serious changes, that is the only thing that will rescue this.)

We await your decision, hopefully it will take account of player experiences and needs.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

3ulldog
GOODBYE EVE THANKS FOR THE FISH
#794 - 2015-06-03 16:51:14 UTC
Hi CCP.
Firstly Thanks for the past 8-9 years. Love(d) the game and the patches were always a treat to log onto.
Now some constructive feedback on the latest patch.
Why have you reverted back to a 1980's arcade game called Asteroids. This is what the new Icons remind me off, and they are terrible.
Just had the misfortune of undocking from Jita and it was a mess and an eyesore.
If you insist on keeping them, then please give the player based Community the option of switching off the new Icons and going back to the old ones like you did with the Map upgrade.
I see a lot of negativity regarding the new Icons and i think you have to sit up and take notice.
Your player based numbers are falling and listening to the community is a must.
When i joined Eve many years ago i remember the times when there were 54k people online. Now you get just about 34k.
Please please revert back.
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#795 - 2015-06-03 16:53:03 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Fine. Whatever. But I'm curious what you think the best solution is. If its "everyone goes back to the way it was last week" I'm 99% certain its not gonna happen. My solution is a real solution, and its also better than the status quo as of this morning.
Your solution is not feasible since it says "bring back the old icons, and the previous icons, and make all three sets possible to be selected and mixed and matched how we see fit."

This means we have one set of okay icons, and two sets of blurry icons when scaled. I never said we should go back to the old icons. You will not find a single post of me saying that in this topic. You are free to check my profile, I have only posted in this feedback topic since it started. Please do not put words in my mouth.

But even if I HAD said it, then why would that be worse than what you are proposing? Reverting to the old icons would most likely be a lot easier than to create a section in the overview settings to decide which Icons you want from what set.

We have the new icons, now we have to deal with them and hope that our continued high qualify feedback will be heard. That is the only thing we can do by now. Which, by the way, has been done since MONTHS.
The same, and I repeat myself yet again, is happening with opportunities and the new starmap. No useful updates there.
Old features which were good, have been cut out for no reason at all. It might be just be, but I am STILL misclicking the icons for Contracts and Notepad in my Neocom. I also miss my purple interface.

If you read the post before I was saying "no" to your suggestion, then you would have seen a good number of solutions. In fact, I tried to be as civil and detailed as I possibly can, through the entire topic, bringing up multiple points, often repeating myself.

I fully understand there is pressure on the development teams to ship a certain feature for a certain deadline. I know there are the marketing and business hyenas who are more prone to push people to bad decisions and half-finished products than not.
But we do live in a community here. I don't want to FIGHT the developers, I want to WORK with them. I bet most people here who have been on sisi (And I don't know if you have been) and who are giving in-depth feedback want to WORK with the developers too.

It gets increasingly difficult to still believe we're working together, if features are removed that nobody wanted gone, and if changes are made that are not optimal. I'm not talking about gameplay balance here, that is an entirely different cup of tea. But the User interface is the ONLY thing that every player of a game is dealing with 100% of all the time they play.
That is why it is such a sensitive topic.
Panterata
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#796 - 2015-06-03 16:55:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Panterata
As 3ulldog said

I hope this time to pay attention of the ppl request!

Because last time we screamed 64 pages regarding Tooltips and you just passed away
Tyr Dolorem
State War Academy
Caldari State
#797 - 2015-06-03 16:56:30 UTC
Im still mad about my monochrome neocom.
Katowen
#798 - 2015-06-03 16:57:20 UTC
My first reaction after playing for just a little bit yesterday is this:

I personally do not like the new ICONs at all. Maybe it is because I have been use to old ones for 5+ years, but still, eeeeck!

The rest of the content is still under evaluation and will update this post (my own post) as I play around more throughout the week.

Katowen

Shpongled Victim
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#799 - 2015-06-03 16:59:20 UTC
dunno why ppl complain about the UI/Neocom colours, theres a option to choose between different themes. Or do i get it wrong?
Ranger Feenix
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#800 - 2015-06-03 16:59:59 UTC
CCP,

I'm still checking features with the new patch, but for the limited time that I've played since the patch, I like what I'm seeing.

I was concerned about some of the posts regarding launcher/patching issues prior to me running the launcher...but everything functioned flawlessly on my system and I was up and running in about two minutes.

I'm actually running the UI at 110% iirc because I'm spanning EVE across 3 30" monitors in surround, and everything looks superb.

Thank you for continuing to improve a great "simulation."

Lost in Space