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Carnyx release - General feedback

First post First post First post
Author
Staxu
Cyrk stracencow
#701 - 2015-06-03 12:10:36 UTC
DHuncan wrote:
DHuncan wrote:
I logged, undocked, saw the icons, docked back again and logged off.


Stop liking this post. It was the most stupid post I ever wrote and yet, by far, the one got more likes. CCP is doing a great job and that's why we are here. We have the chance to work with them by telling how we would change things. Acting like spoiled babies is not going to make this communication any easier for neither part.

Some of the icons may be ambiguous but the most complaints are cause YOU dont want to evolve. Well, this is EvE, carebears, adapt or DIE.



Well I do not know what changed your thinking. Yes I love most of changes in EVE since I started to play gate jump effect, wh effect, new look of ships etc but new overview makes it messy and it's no only my opinion. It's not "Well, this is EvE, carebears, adapt or DIE".
I will give a try because my subscription is still on, but I think I will pack my POS , place it on station until patch giving a choice of overview.
Irakinia
The Rurik Dynasty
#702 - 2015-06-03 12:11:18 UTC
I -love- the new icons. Such a welcoming change :)
TYLER DURDAN69
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#703 - 2015-06-03 12:13:08 UTC
Colonel Tosh wrote:
CCP Surge wrote:

I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.


The problem is that you force a change down our throats that we don't want, with results that are SHAMEFUL for a company as prestigious as CCP, and an attitude from devs like "swallow it for days and then complain". I lost ships yesterday in part due to not recognising the field correctly because of the icons being weird and thus distracting.

You're forcing a change that "requires the brain to adapt" which in itself already is a flawed reasoning, as you basicly tell people with ANY disability that you don't give a **** about them at all and just push the junk quality that has been designed. It's not even CLOSE to resembling the quality of the dev blog.

Shame on you.


There's throwing your toys out of your pram and then there is this.

Don't force electric light bulbs on me, I want candles.
Don't give force colour tv on me, I want black and white.
Don't force money on me, I want to trade in livestock.
Don't force clothes on me I want to die of hypthermia.
Don't education on me, I want to be stupid.
Don't force transport on me I want to walk to Spain for my summer holidays.
Don't force geography on me, I want to believe the earth is flat.
Don't force a change that "requires the brain to adapt", I prefer to stay a brainstem.

They made the change, in part, to help new users - there are less icons than ship names. Learning ship types by name is counterintuitive.

Spoiler: the fact you lost your ships were not down to new icons, but rather the fact you are terribad at eve.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#704 - 2015-06-03 12:13:18 UTC
dorfsorc wrote:
however well-intentioned the new icons may be, the reality is that so much detail in a very small space is almost useless. Especially when redboxed. it just becomes a color blob. That being said, the new icons provide an opportunity for a cleaner overview if we could alter the physical size of the icon box to make it larger.

edit: the provided icon link was almost useless in terms of readability and i challenge the assertion that it is merely a brain adjustment to absorb and learn dozens of new screen display elements that had no particular context other than in the link. As it is, the CCP font choice is particularly bad for people with vision issues and given the aging player base something needs to change.

These icons along with many of the new "pretties" being added, were designed for 4k, 5k monitors (go back and read the original blog and the feedback it got then), your going to have to make those boxes pretty big to get these icons appearing halfway decently in anything with lower resolutions.

EveOnline, the niche game with limited market appeal, introducing icons and effects designed for a minority of the player base.

Designing the game around hardware that is out of reach for the average player?

It really is a shame Devs (the producer really, it is her call at the end of the day) are so out of touch with and choose to ignore the average player and his or her needs.

$600 to $1,000 to throw at a new monitor so these icons appear as they are designed - Not here.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#705 - 2015-06-03 12:14:29 UTC
DHuncan wrote:
Some of the icons may be ambiguous but the most complaints are cause YOU dont want to evolve. Well, this is EvE, carebears, adapt or DIE.

Evolve? It's a icons evolution dead end to me.
Or do you mean reversion herbivorous panda style evolution?
Evolution don't necessary mean a good thing.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Fergus Runkle
Truth and Reconciliation Council
#706 - 2015-06-03 12:20:47 UTC
Skye McDonald wrote:
Well done CCP! You have managed to take a huge step backwards with your "new and improved" overview icons. I really do not understand your logic for the change. Extremely disappointing! A few pluses and a gigantic minus. Time for a Hotfix for the icons.


This says everything I want to say.
Red Deck
The Tebo Corp
#707 - 2015-06-03 12:25:30 UTC
Sullen Bear wrote:
New icons is the worst change since Incarna.

First of all, what is a major goal of icons? For me it is quickly separate some objects CLASSES. Not the objects itself. These classes are:
- player ships;
- NPC ships;
- drones;
- wrecks;
- other stuff.

All those classes had absolutely different icons before Carnyx. Square, cross, diagonal cross, triangle and circle with small variations. It was not because old CCP designers are lazy or fool, it was because they are professionals. It was almost ideal decision.
Icons inside one class listed above MUST be almost equal because we need as much difference BETWEEN CLASSES as possible. Now this clear mechanic broken completely. And we have not any replacement.

CCP, you always tell us: you need patience, learn, etc. It does not work always. F.e. some things that today are absolutely unacceptable as they was at release day: gate jumping effect, wormhole visual effect, MJD jump effect, neocom icons. All this was terrible - and it is terrible now. But with all this **** I can play EVE. With new overview icons? I will try, because I love EVE, but don't know...

I find this post expressing my own thoughts very well.

Icons in the overview should communicate the CLASS of an object as efficiently as possible - and the old ones did the job perfectly fine (with details available through mouseover or in the Type column). Small NPC ship, medium NPC ship, large NPC ship, small player ship, medium player ship, large player ship, drone, full wreck, empty wreck... it was all there in the icon column and I could tell in an eyeblink if there was anything to pay close attention to (I move around a lot and my most often used tab preset is "all"). Now for the same kind of information, I have to look elsewhere, because the icon column is just one big mess making my eyes hurt. Especially the fact that you can't tell NPC ships apart from players' ships just by checking the overview icon is an extremely serious deal breaker for me.

From the aesthetic point of view, the new icons are a disaster, at least with the UI scaling I am using (125%). Ugly as hell.
From the functional point of view, the new icons are a serious downgrade from what we had before. They do not serve the purpose.

And I have already played with the new icons for several hours, so it's not like I am overreacting after seeing them for the first time. I have been trying to use them yesterday and today - and it appears that the best course of action for me is to find a way of playing the game without looking at the overview icons at all.

If you really can't do better than this, CCP, then I totally support an option to use the old overview icons. I have never felt they were lacking in functionality and while looking fairly ordinary, they were aesthetically still MUCH better than the new ones (again, with the UI scaling I am using).
AfroFlipp Mabata
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#708 - 2015-06-03 12:27:40 UTC
Not sure if this has been addressed yet or not, but the Ship thumnails when in a station or on the "show info" of a ship, Are these looking as intended?

Screenshot of what i see.
http://puu.sh/iaOAA/5c8515d073.jpg

Thanks.
Eugen Kidd
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#709 - 2015-06-03 12:31:19 UTC
New overview icons are awful. It's near impossible to understand situation on a battlefield if there are more than 10 ships in grid. With old icons I could clearly understand - there are blob of drones, there are blob of ships (I don't care distinguishing shiptypes if there are 100+ blob of them). And what I see now - it is mess of different icons and I could not understand if there are piloted ship or jettison container or wreck - they all look the same.
I think I should cancel subscription on my two alt-accounts until the icons become more or less usable.
Volery Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#710 - 2015-06-03 12:37:58 UTC
New overview icons: it looks like CCP hired a freelance designer who has never played Eve and asked him to draw a new "beautiful" icon pack for the "game about space". Awful :( as a result lost the concept of a simple form.
Tash D'Angst
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#711 - 2015-06-03 12:40:42 UTC
I really, really like the concept of new in-space and Overview icons.

I really, really, REALLY despise the execution-- as did the 30+ pilots I flew with yesterday, as evidenced by the constant litany of "space AIDS" and "eye cancer" expressed by all.

(A personal favorite quote-- "It's like Pythagorean theorem in space-- here's the enemy Fleet; solve for x.")


Quite literally, you have taken many years of practice learning to read the grid and not only thrown it out of the window, but made it even harder than it was before. So many others have gone into the details that I'll save the time by not repeating them.



Building on the existing system is a much better option-- someone suggested earlier crossing lines and letters and additional "bumps" on the icons to REALLY get into specific ship classes. That I like-- as per a military mapping system, for anyone familiar.


In the meantime... how about a toggle, pretty please?
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#712 - 2015-06-03 12:40:58 UTC
Red Deck wrote:
From the aesthetic point of view, the new icons are a disaster, at least with the UI scaling I am using (125%). Ugly as hell.
From the functional point of view, the new icons are a serious downgrade from what we had before. They do not serve the purpose.

While aesthetic is subjective (I personally like caldari hulls, even the "ugly" ones) functionality of new icons is an issue. The whole point of icon is to clearly show what it mean with as less segments as possible.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Di Mulle
#713 - 2015-06-03 12:47:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Di Mulle
TYLER DURDAN69 wrote:


There's throwing your toys out of your pram and then there is this.

Don't force electric light bulbs on me, I want candles.
Don't give force colour tv on me, I want black and white.
Don't force money on me, I want to trade in livestock.
Don't force clothes on me I want to die of hypthermia.
Don't education on me, I want to be stupid.
Don't force transport on me I want to walk to Spain for my summer holidays.
Don't force geography on me, I want to believe the earth is flat.
Don't force a change that "requires the brain to adapt", I prefer to stay a brainstem.

They made the change, in part, to help new users - there are less icons than ship names. Learning ship types by name is counterintuitive.

Spoiler: the fact you lost your ships were not down to new icons, but rather the fact you are terribad at eve.


Cheap demagogy ended with forever young "mine is longer' .

Booooooring.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
Captain Semper
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#714 - 2015-06-03 12:48:01 UTC
A lot of constructive whine. A lot of unconstructive whine.

But this is a main question:
CCP, you have a few good iterations of icons on SiSi so why did you choose awful one?!
If you want new icons w/o whine give us option to chose icobs what we like. Is it so hard?
As a quick fix - return old icons or this http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66945/1/Concept_NewOverviewIcons_PlayerShips_V2.png
Lazarus Complex
The Prodigy Expedition
#715 - 2015-06-03 12:48:48 UTC
Icons,,, good god, what were you guys thinking? It used to be that you could tell at a glance if you were facing a battleship or a cruiser, now everything above a frigate looks the same at first glance. CCP, put your ego aside, admit the new ship icons are bad & go back to the way it was.
Teacher Oumis
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#716 - 2015-06-03 12:50:18 UTC
Played on and off since 05 on various chars, I don't think I've ever grumbled on the forums once. But please, please...overview icons are awful, microscopic, unintelligible, garbled mess. Way over complicated.

For a start, ship icons should be larger and more prominent than cans, gates etc. I think the idea of making icons for ship types more distinguishable is nice. But the execution is poor. I miss those simple boxes :(

At least consider legacy support, perhaps in the form of overview icons we can choose ourselves. Similar to how you can often choose your crosshairs in a first person.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#717 - 2015-06-03 12:59:27 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
It would have been better to use lettering instead of icons in the overview. You can fit two letters into that small space pretty elegantly. I'm not sure if I already suggested this in the original icons thread so apologies if that's the case.

Ships (always in capitals):
F
D
C
BC
BS
DR
CA
SC
T
CD (combat drone)
ED (ewar drone)

Celestials (always lower case):
s
p
m
ab
co
cf

The lettering instead of icons would allow for more or less instant recognition of what the overview entry is.

Dwarf fort in space?
Array Aggression
Caomhnoir Onoir
#718 - 2015-06-03 13:03:27 UTC
Well, still waiting for the game to actually load up... task manager says it gets to 85k or so bytes, then doesn't do anything. for hours. Repair tool doesn't work, so that's good. I was really hoping for a patch to fix it after downtime this morning...

Logistics V in 14 days, let's see if it finishes before I get online.
Ida Aurlien
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#719 - 2015-06-03 13:03:42 UTC
well good job of trying to reinvent the wheel....... Think i'm like a few others time for a eve vacation....... null changes -2 % player base ... stupid changes -3 % player base.... ur like new coke going backwards on loyalty
Wakamatsu
Doomheim
#720 - 2015-06-03 13:04:46 UTC
New icons will take a bit to get used to, otherwise I like them. Big smile