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Carnyx release - General feedback

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slphy vansyl
angry squirrels
#521 - 2015-06-03 00:49:05 UTC
hurrah!! I've just spend few minute today on EVE, my wife is so grateful for the big bug cake called EVE now...
having major trouble with this game and patch... (oh, a new button!!! I'm going to resubscribe!!! gogogo! nahhh)
too many freeze, problem etc....see ya in winter!!! (or not)
Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence
#522 - 2015-06-03 00:57:28 UTC
Captain Pada wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/ui-modernization-icon-strategy/

These icons were much better.


exactly... logged in and was asking myself hm ? didnt they look diffrent in presentation / blog ??



but hell yeah PacMan Icons \o/ lets downgrade to EvE for Dummies hooray

its not about learning new stuff or get used to it...its still the main question: DOES IT IMPROVE THE GAME ?

and all the talk bout blahblah EvE Brand typical look ... blah .. then why redesign every ship and make it look
like anykind of SciFi Game/Movie ?


btw dont forget to hire more US Personal ...will help, sure



every Patch the Motivation to continue playing goes down and down and ....

"need to get used to" pfft no just need to stop paying
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#523 - 2015-06-03 00:58:33 UTC
A bizarre thing has happened. I think the 50 mm armours were replaced with 100 mm storyline armours.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#524 - 2015-06-03 01:00:21 UTC
Koba Kyogen wrote:
Strip out the new icons. Wasn't broken, didn't need fixing.

Give us the option to at least disable them.

I blame Iceland. All of it.


And people were worried about the possibility of a strike - as I see it, the strike would have prevented them from breaking things for at least a little while

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
General Xenophon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#525 - 2015-06-03 01:02:48 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
Carnyx has been successfully deployed on June 2 during an extended downtime.


Carnyx brings many new features to EVE Online, including fully revamped icons in space and in the overview, the first set of sovereignty changes, fantastic new graphic shaders, module rebalances, the Caldari Tech-3 destroyer "Jackdaw" and more.

You can check out details of all these features on the new Updates webpage, here.
The full details of all changes and improvements are available in the patch notes.


For general discussion and feedback regarding Carnyx, please use this thread.

Please report issues with the release on the PC in the Carnyx issues thread. For Mac users, there is, as always, a thread on the Macintosh forums for discussion of this release here.


Models for ships up close look great! Thanks!

What is with the Atari space invaders / Packman shapes for ships on the screen? Was there something wrong with what they were before? Is there an option to turn this back to the way it was? Its cool to see ship-type changed according to shapes, but not totally sold on this.
eldeago
TalCorp Enterprises
TalCorp United Federation
#526 - 2015-06-03 01:10:11 UTC  |  Edited by: eldeago
The reason I have enjoyed this game so much, was the realism of the graphics. Now this is like a cartoon game for children. The Icons totally suck. The targets you have painted on the stations, removes any reality of the game the rats are simply gay! Congrats on again totally screwing your player base! And yes I know I can quit anytime, and if I have to play a child's game I probably will. Good luck.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#527 - 2015-06-03 01:11:11 UTC
Myriad Blaze wrote:
CCP Surge wrote:
Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid.

But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with.

For now a few things

  • I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
  • Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
  • While “deconstructive feedback” is cathartic in some ways I am sure, it’s likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
  • We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.


Thanks for reading!

There we have the "have patience, it takes a while" argument again. Roll It was the same with the new UI icons. And guess what, I actually dislike them as much as on the day you introduced them. Sometimes I get the feeling that you tend to forget that most of us are adults and that some of us are quite capable to percieve problematic design decisions when they see them.

Updating or modernizing the icons is perfectly ok in itself. Unfortunately your approach is fundamentally flawed in at least two ways.

You seem to believe that a higher granularity improves the "at-a-glance awareness" and provides more information per se, so you conceived dozens of new icons. However, it seems you are oblivious to the fact, that information overload is a limiting factor in that regard. The threshold to information overload is affected by several factors, stress level and individual capability among them. The individual capability in turn is affected by various factors, too. With regard to EVE I'd include sleep and session time as variables. Basically this means, that you should focus on displaying important information while omitting less important information or at least make it optional. Too many of your icons give completely irrelevant information. If I had a say in this, I would axe several of the icons: Combat -1 (rookie ships are frigates), Industrial: - 3 (mining frigates are frigates and that leaves us with large and medium industrials), Drones: - 5 (1 icon for fighters/bombers, 1 icon for combat drones, 1 icon for non-combat drones). And that's conservative, you could remove far more icons and still have a working system.

In addition your icons are seemingly designed with an artistic idea in mind (and are not even looking that good), partially forgetting that the icons are supposed to give tactical information in (space) combat situations. In combination with overview colors it's no longer easy to properly discern most of the icons. I'd suggest to look at military tactical icons for guidance. With regard to the general design I would suggest to replace the frigate triangle with an acute-angled triangle as in the capital letter "A" to give it a more dynamic, spaceship like look. For cruisers you could use a similar icon, a bit wider, perhaps with a flat top. At least redesign the cruiser icons so they don't look like monopoly houses anymore.

Since I don't expect or believe that you will do anything to improve the mess you created with the news icons, it would be nice to make it optional to use them. Please give us the option to switch back to the old icons and let the players decide whether they want your new icons or not.

P.S.: Btw, the link is broken.


This ^^^^
The failure with the icons is the same failure that is going on with the map - the idea that it has to be gee whiz neato to be any good. In reality for both the icons and map simplicity is more important then anything else. You should be able to look at the icons and the map and be able to tell from them at a glance what you need. However, as it is right now, simplicity is being sacrificed to make it look neat, resulting in the map and icons being so overly complex as to be useless. In my opinion the map is unfixable and should just be scraped. As for the icon - most of them need to be consolidated. All that is really needed is icons representing ships by size, capital, large, medium and small - and thats it. We dont need special icons for rookie ships or mining frigates. Hell the differences are so minimal and the icons so small as to make them nonsensical anyways.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Darkon Kagemamoru
Quantum Roots
#528 - 2015-06-03 01:15:59 UTC
Pryce Caesar wrote:
A bizarre thing has happened. I think the 50 mm armours were replaced with 100 mm storyline armours.


Intentional change.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=425475&find=unread&_ga=1.179079271.2142787165.1428906158
Zan- nah
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#529 - 2015-06-03 01:16:26 UTC
eldeago wrote:
The reason I have enjoyed this game so much, was the realism of the graphics. Now this is like a cartoon game for children. The Icons totally suck. The targets you have painted on the stations, removes any reality of the game the rats are simply gay! Congrats on again totally screwing your player base! And yes I know I can quit anytime, and if I have to play a child's game I probably will. Good luck.


Can I have your stuff Cool
Total Newbie
State War Academy
Caldari State
#530 - 2015-06-03 01:17:11 UTC
The saddest thing in all of this?

WE are the customer.

If any business treated customers with the disdain CCP does theirs, theyd be out of business..........

Am I being Ironic?
Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#531 - 2015-06-03 01:18:59 UTC
New icons look completely ********.
Can't believe you guys went live with them after they have been proven to be crap on singularity (performance and coherent perception wise).
Not like my feedback makes much of a difference, everyone knows that if u want something done u go on reddit.

~lvl 60 paladin~
Orion Audene
Royale Ventures Ltd.
#532 - 2015-06-03 01:20:23 UTC
I really miss the old Overview icons! The new icons look goofy & childish. Sad Also, the game seems a bit more glitchy and noticeably lags during station undocking.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#533 - 2015-06-03 01:21:39 UTC
ICONS.

Bottom line, after 30 pages of comments:

Turn that **** off, go back to old icons, assign a different artist team, and start again.
loquacious7
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#534 - 2015-06-03 01:22:36 UTC
I think the game looks terrible with the icons on. *forgot to add constructive criticism other than BAD ICON at first. But OMG this is worse than captains quarters. :)
Aiko Shinjiro
Nekkakami Corp
#535 - 2015-06-03 01:23:46 UTC
The only good thing bout the Icons and the Playstyle of beeing a lowsec Pirate:
Just Ignore them
-if the Icon is diffrent then that of station or gate: shoot it
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#536 - 2015-06-03 01:24:22 UTC
Too many icons, that are too detailed for rapid recognition, and they render poorly at different resolutions and UI scalings.

As an exercise on visual recognition (I'm not recommending these as icons):

* Hollow triangle.
* Hollow triangle with a single horizontal bar underneath.
* Hollow triangle with a single dot above it.

* Filled triangle.
* Filled triangle with a single horizontal bar underneath.
* Filled triangle with a single dot above it.

Notice that none of the three elements can be mistaken for the other, even when rendered poorly.

The simple geometric shapes can also be easily described in text.
General Xenophon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#537 - 2015-06-03 01:34:15 UTC  |  Edited by: General Xenophon
Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:
New icons look completely ********.
Can't believe you guys went live with them after they have been proven to be crap on singularity (performance and coherent perception wise).
Not like my feedback makes much of a difference, everyone knows that if u want something done u go on reddit.



BUT WAIT! People told me CCP listens if people PREVIEW the patch notes and give feedback BEFORE it comes out! OWAIT
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#538 - 2015-06-03 01:48:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Pryce Caesar
Darkon Kagemamoru wrote:
Pryce Caesar wrote:
A bizarre thing has happened. I think the 50 mm armours were replaced with 100 mm storyline armours.


Intentional change.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=425475&find=unread&_ga=1.179079271.2142787165.1428906158


Best place to sell them? Sounds like those who collected 50mm armour plates in missions can now make a profit off them.

P.S. In regards to the icon changes, I do not particularly care about it because I've only been playing for about a month, so I'm not particularly attached to the old system.

P.S II: So I take it the Hecate will be released in July?
Circumstantial Evidence
#539 - 2015-06-03 01:49:00 UTC
Using Chribba's excellent forum research tool, I broke down the top 20 posters, on the icon topic. The data was snapped roughly an hour ago.

Conclusions: more people making posts here, expressed a negative opinion. Those who wrote a negative opinion, wrote more often. I was surprised that the total number of additional posts (votes?) by writing more of the same, didn't have a larger effect on the overall percentages, when just looking at post count.

Out of 20 unique characters:
12 - "don't like"       (60%)
1 -  "will get used to" ( 5%)
4 -  "like"             (20%)
3 -  "no comment"       (15%)


Out of 144 posts:
Note: if a poster referred to icons in the majority of their posts, I counted all their posts as about icons, even if one was about another topic.

96 - don't like new icons   (66.7%)
7  - I'll get used to them  ( 4.9%)
24 - like new icons         (16.7%)
17 - no posts about icons   (11.8%)


Codes added in front, below: 
0 - don't like new icons
1 - I'll get used to them
2 - like new icons
3 - no posts about icons

Data used:
0 - epicurus ataraxia 12 (2,4%) 
0 - Steijn 12 (2,4%) 
0 - Joia Crenca 11 (2,2%) 
0 - Natya Mebelle 10 (2,0%) 
0 - Panterata 10 (2,0%) 
1 - Jenn aSide 7 (1,4%) 
2 - Ralph King-Griffin 7 (1,4%) 
0 - Rivr Luzade 7 (1,4%) 
0 - Sissy Fuzz 7 (1,4%) 
2 - Trajan Unknown 7 (1,4%) 
3 - Dominous Nolen 6 (1,2%) 
0 - Koba Kyogen 6 (1,2%) 
3 - Nemesis DCC 6 (1,2%) 
0 - Spc One 6 (1,2%) 
2 - Dradis Aulmais 5 (1,0%) 
2 - Faruzen en Divalone 5 (1,0%) 
0 - Lil' Brudder Too 5 (1,0%) 
0 - Natascha Kerenski 5 (1,0%) 
3 - Sexual White Chocolate 5 (1,0%) 
0 - Tyr Dolorem 5 (1,0%)
Andris Arickson
Storm Chasers.
Pandemic Horde
#540 - 2015-06-03 01:54:02 UTC
CCP Surge wrote:


Hi, let me reclarify a bit here.

< snip >

I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?


Eve is a very "busy" game, often needing a lot of different sized and shaped windows on the screen at any one time, local, 1-2 extra chat windows, D-Scan, Overview column, intel channel/s, probe scan (anom) window, drones, etc.

This means that on my laptop I can't easily play at anything other than 90% to fit in everything I need.

On my 24" screen I can fit everything in and read it but sometimes I need windows to be smaller than the minimum at 100% scaling in order to fit in what I need.

Assuming I were to transition to a 4K 30" screen I would likely easily be able to fit everything and more on my screen due to the real estate and resolution gains.

If there were more UI options around the minimum size of windows and or font sizes then perhaps I could scale all the windows I need without the use of 90% scaling, thus bypassing the problem.

Unlike many of the other instant UI experts here on the forums I will give the new icons a try and form an opinion after a little more experience than a snap judgement.

The new shaders are very nice indeed.