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Jove Gate Network.

Author
Master Tyberious
Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#1 - 2015-03-30 18:56:55 UTC
As we all have noticed it seems the jovian gate network has gone down for reasons that are unknown (At least to me anyway). On closer inspection though you will notice that there are two jovian constellations with their gate network still intact.

Constellations:
0VFS-G
B-HLOG

Thoughts on this?

Drunken Irish Space Pirate

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#2 - 2015-03-30 19:23:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Xindi Kraid
That's not Jove space. That's UUA-F4 region, and we don't know who lives/lived there or when, or who built those gates, but it's not Jove.

Jove space is the regions of A821-A and J7HZ-F.



I don't know if there's an in character explanation, but those constellations are where the Devs live.
Not sure why they need stargates though. They have magic sufficiently advanced technology that lets them move themselves wherever they want to.
Master Tyberious
Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#3 - 2015-03-30 19:47:43 UTC
The question still stands of why the rest of the UUA-F4 gate network is down.

Drunken Irish Space Pirate

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#4 - 2015-03-30 19:55:32 UTC
Presumably because of Carolines star.

One would assume a cataclysm could have that affect.

I am more interested in what happened in actual Jove space, since last we knew that WAS occupied.
Tykari
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-03-30 22:21:42 UTC
Well Devs use it for testing, and they have gates in case testing requires gate use I imagine.

As for the Jove gate network. Well it could be several reasons.
-The Jove just shut it down themselves for one reason or another.
-Stargates require gravitational fluctuations to remain within a certain stable limit in order to maintain their connection according to EVE Source, so it's possible that Caroline's Star was such a big stellar event it disrupted this balance enough for entire network with in a certain radius of the event to go dark.
-Could be another effect of Caroline's star that just jumped from the gates in W477-P to the others throughout the Jove network, with us not being affected because there is no direct connection.
-Or the gate network shutting down maybe not be an effect of Caroline's star at all. Could be there was some general malfunction of Jove systems that caused their gate network fail, their cloaking systems on the Observatories to fail and caused some other device to fail which actually caused the cataclysm in W477-P.

Not to certain about the last option as I'm not sure when the gate network actually went down (before, after, same time). Interesting enough despite these system failures, the Jove intelligence scrambling is still working to an extent. Afterall we still see their stations as Gallente stations, which aside from game mechanic reasons, was explained as the Jove just messing with our data so we can't see exactly what they have in their space.

Either way not sure we'll get clear confirmation any time soon. I doubt the Directorate is going to spend time giving us an explanation.

In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.

Master Tyberious
Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#6 - 2015-03-30 23:22:10 UTC
Has anyone thought about the possibility of a Drifter VS Jove war? Given the fact that the Drifters are tearing down the Jove listening towers as well as their appearance was after Caroline's Star appearance. So is it possible that the Drifters have shut down the Jovian gate network to help them isolate what remaining Jove there are in order to make eradicating them an easier task?

On the topic of Caroline's Star my personal guess is that it may have been a Jovian/Drifter super weapon much like our own doomsday devices which could have released enough energy to destroy the system that it was fired in (much like the eve gate did to the New Eden system). I imagine that weapon of that magnitude would release the required energy needed for Caroline's Star to be visible from all systems in the cluster.

We have already seen the effects of Drifter weaponry that they have mounted on their battleship class ships so what type of weaponry would they have on lets say one of their dreadnought class ships?

Drunken Irish Space Pirate

Tykari
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-03-30 23:37:09 UTC
Master Tyberious wrote:
Has anyone thought about the possibility of a Drifter VS Jove war? Given the fact that the Drifters are tearing down the Jove listening towers as well as their appearance was after Caroline's Star appearance. So is it possible that the Drifters have shut down the Jovian gate network to help them isolate what remaining Jove there are in order to make eradicating them an easier task?

On the topic of Caroline's Star my personal guess is that it may have been a Jovian/Drifter super weapon much like our own doomsday devices which could have released enough energy to destroy the system that it was fired in (much like the eve gate did to the New Eden system). I imagine that weapon of that magnitude would release the required energy needed for Caroline's Star to be visible from all systems in the cluster.

We have already seen the effects of Drifter weaponry that they have mounted on their battleship class ships so what type of weaponry would they have on lets say one of their dreadnought class ships?


Yes many have thought about there being a possible Jove/Drifter civil war. With current theories being that the Drifters are awakened Sleepers, there is a distinct possibility both factions are warring with eachother. Given the history of the Jove and Sleepers there likely would be some old grudges to take care of. If there is a war going on, depending how well each side is doing it could be at least some good news for us. The Jove Directorate is probably the only force that stands a realistic chance against the Drifters given the huge technological advantages they both have. And as cool as it would be to see Drifter or Jove capitals (Mothership anyone?) I fear for us all if they were to bring their versions to bear on us.

There is also the question of the Jove disease, if Drifters are Jove/use Jove bodies, are they also afflicted by the genetic disease that has been ravaging their race for centuries or did they find a cure?

In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.

Master Tyberious
Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#8 - 2015-03-30 23:49:16 UTC
Looking back at the Amarr/Jove war we have record of what a jove mothership is capable of so i can imagine that the Drifters have the same type of weaponry if not more powerful.

On the topic of the Jovian disease i believe it is likely that if the Jove and Drifters are at war we may very shortly see the extinction of the Jove. I say this because in the centuries that have past sense the Jove/Sleeper war the Jovian numbers have dwindled greatly which could make it easy for the Drifters who are using our corpses to (theoretically) rebuild their bodies to wipe them from the face of eve.

The real question is if the Jove will call on us to help them and or once the Drifters are done with the Jove if they will point their sights on us.

Drunken Irish Space Pirate

Euttere Geten
Doomheim
#9 - 2015-04-01 16:23:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Euttere Geten
Master Tyberious wrote:
So is it possible that the Drifters have shut down the Jovian gate network to help them isolate what remaining Jove there are in order to make eradicating them an easier task?

Sorry for butting in, but what are the chances, if any, that the Jove shut down the gates as a preventative measure? It seems like they may have been able to move the observatories under cloak without the need for gates, so the gate network in Jove space might not be a lynchpin of travel like it has been in the rest of New Eden. We know that the Drifters do not need them but that the Sansha were forced to use them for some reason. Maybe the Jove or the Drifters wanted to isolate the Sansha in that region?

I'm well behind the curve on all these events, but it was something I was thinking on.
Tykari
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-04-01 17:59:49 UTC
Euttere Geten wrote:
Master Tyberious wrote:
So is it possible that the Drifters have shut down the Jovian gate network to help them isolate what remaining Jove there are in order to make eradicating them an easier task?

Sorry for butting in, but what are the chances, if any, that the Jove shut down the gates as a preventative measure? It seems like they may have been able to move the observatories under cloak without the need for gates, so the gate network in Jove space might not be a lynchpin of travel like it has been in the rest of New Eden. We know that the Drifters do not need them but that the Sansha were forced to use them for some reason. Maybe the Jove or the Drifters wanted to isolate the Sansha in that region?

I'm well behind the curve on all these events, but it was something I was thinking on.


Thanks to Trii Seo there is a map showing concentrations of Observatories, and it seems the largest is basicly where the Jove First and Second Empires had their home system. The Heaven Constellation and surrounding regions. So it's very likely the Observatories were something built during those days, which might even explain why the architecture of them seems a little of from what we know of more recent Jove ships and structures.

That said, that doesn't mean the Jove actually require a gate network to travel from system to system. It's possible they just maintained one because it is easier, or even just to make the rest of the cluster believe they were as dependant on it as the other Empires. I do believe Jove ships were seen outside of Jove space in a few isolated cases after they had severed their gate connections to the rest of New Eden. And while it's possible these were ferried back and forth by one of their Motherships it could just as easily be that they are capable crossing such distances using different methods.

In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.

Master Tyberious
Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#11 - 2015-04-01 18:27:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Master Tyberious
I was doing a bit more digging today and noticed that the Drifters' Corp HQ is located at 3-CE1R VIII - Moon 5 Prosper Vault which is a Jovian station located in Jove space. I dont know if it has any actual significance or if it was just our wonderful Devs placing them somewhere while they get another HQ ready for them. Anyway just food for thought there.

*Side Note* 3-CE1R is also the Jovian HQ

Drunken Irish Space Pirate

Euttere Geten
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-04-01 18:52:10 UTC
Tykari wrote:
Thanks to Trii Seo there is a map showing concentrations of Observatories, and it seems the largest is basicly where the Jove First and Second Empires had their home system. The Heaven Constellation and surrounding regions. So it's very likely the Observatories were something built during those days...

Damn, so they really must be ancient then. I wonder if that lends weight to the theory that the Seeker/Drifter 'excision' of tech from the observatories is not for themselves, since their own tech should far outstrip that of First or Second Empire Jove, but rather to keep anyone else from having access to it.

Thanks for the reply.
Master Tyberious
Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#13 - 2015-04-01 19:39:35 UTC
Euttere Geten wrote:
Tykari wrote:
Thanks to Trii Seo there is a map showing concentrations of Observatories, and it seems the largest is basicly where the Jove First and Second Empires had their home system. The Heaven Constellation and surrounding regions. So it's very likely the Observatories were something built during those days...

Damn, so they really must be ancient then. I wonder if that lends weight to the theory that the Seeker/Drifter 'excision' of tech from the observatories is not for themselves, since their own tech should far outstrip that of First or Second Empire Jove, but rather to keep anyone else from having access to it.

Thanks for the reply.



that actually makes a good bit of sense. Especially to this day i dont think we have run into anyone as advanced as the Drifters. Im not even sure the Jove are as advanced as the Drifters.

Drunken Irish Space Pirate

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#14 - 2015-04-01 22:50:19 UTC
Other than the DD, the Drifters do similar DPS to a player Battleship. And have less tank.
The fact people think that's 'advanced' shows how weak sauce most NPC's are.
Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
#15 - 2015-04-02 20:25:38 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Other than the DD, the Drifters do similar DPS to a player Battleship. And have less tank.
The fact people think that's 'advanced' shows how weak sauce most NPC's are.


Titan sized weapon on a BS hull. How is that not advanced? No player ships have that capability.
Tykari
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-04-02 23:13:54 UTC
Master Tyberious wrote:
Euttere Geten wrote:
Tykari wrote:
Thanks to Trii Seo there is a map showing concentrations of Observatories, and it seems the largest is basicly where the Jove First and Second Empires had their home system. The Heaven Constellation and surrounding regions. So it's very likely the Observatories were something built during those days...

Damn, so they really must be ancient then. I wonder if that lends weight to the theory that the Seeker/Drifter 'excision' of tech from the observatories is not for themselves, since their own tech should far outstrip that of First or Second Empire Jove, but rather to keep anyone else from having access to it.

Thanks for the reply.



that actually makes a good bit of sense. Especially to this day i dont think we have run into anyone as advanced as the Drifters. Im not even sure the Jove are as advanced as the Drifters.


Maybe, maybe not. After the fall of the First and Second Empires there were always significant losses. It could be that the Antikythera elements are essentially that, lost knowledge. Something they used in building the Observatories but after the fall the knowledge on how to build them was lost. So now the only way to get them and figure out how to rebuild them would be to get one of the originals.

Another reason could simply be resources. For all we know the Antikythera elements are made of something they don't have access to in w-space.

Or they might actually contain some sort of important data that the Observatories have been gathering for the past few centuries.

In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#17 - 2015-04-03 05:54:22 UTC
I should note, Jamyl Sarum also had a doomsday device on her flagship, though in that case it was a salvaged Terran weapon.


Anyways, we know the Third (current) Jove Empire is not as advanced as the first two, so it is very well possible the observatories date back to then and the knowledge to build or at least the knowledge gathered by and contained withing them has been lost.

The SINGLE thing that keeps confusing me, though: the aesthetics of the towers and the Drifters is very similar suggesting they are contemporaries, but if the structures are very old, what does that make the drifters? (personally, I think the drifters are talocan or a second empire remnant shaken loose by this cataclysm. Also, as far as I am aware, the Sleepers are a Jove offshoot, so I am thinking maybe the other ancient races were as well, and they all just parted ways when the Second Empire fell taking with them certain specialties. Certainly, then, if they were to once again, combine their forces, they may be able to recover the lost glory of the Second Empire, Drifter ships at least seem to fit Talocan or Yan Jung profile with the engines and shields, but the drifters themselves are heavily cyberized which would point toward Takmahl)
Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
#18 - 2015-04-03 15:43:49 UTC
Based on what we saw in the "Emergent Threats" trailer, it seems to be that the "Drifters" are cybernetic constructs built by the Sleeper drones. That being the case, it would imply that we aren't really dealing with a "new" race or faction, but an escalation of force by the Sleeper drones that we Capsuleers have already been facing.

Think about it this way: the Sleepers set up an advanced and devoted Drone AI to protect them from external threats during their time in the Virtuality. Hundreds (thousands?) of years go by and suddenly that AI starts dealing with Capsuleer attacks on a constant basis. Additionally, they are apparently facing attacks by Sansha's Nation as well.

Although the Sleeper Drone tech is advanced, it is not as advanced as the most advanced military tech developed by the Jove / Sleepers during the time they cooperated. After all, nobody gives their Drones equally advanced weapons as they themselves possess... what if they went Rogue? No, their most advanced warships require an actual organic pod pilot to use. Under the incredible pressure of Capsuleer and Sansha attacks, the Sleeper Drone AI is at a major disadvantage. Operating within their original parameters, and with their standard tech, they aren't able to fulfill their primary objective of protecting their Sleeper creators.

So, the Drones adapt. Maybe they actually do go Rogue, only they're going Rogue while still protecting the Sleepers. They know of massive vaults of Jove military tech left to drift after the fall of previous Jove Empires, perhaps even the Third Empire has died off after the ravages of the Jovian Disease. These powerful warships are capable of countering their new enemies, but have no Drone compatible interface. Solution? Build a cybernetic Sleeper Drone from organic parts in order to interface with abandoned "Drifter" tech.

Circadian Sleepers and Drifters aren't just working together, they are different units of the same AI.