These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Can't believe Off Grid Boosting is still around. Srsly?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Charlie Jacobson
#221 - 2015-03-17 09:46:31 UTC
Personally I would prefer more drastic measures. Remove the whole concept of fleet boosting links and reimburse all the SP people have spent on it so they can spend that SP on something fun and engaging instead.

I support James 315 and the New Order of Highsec
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#222 - 2015-03-17 10:16:46 UTC
Budda Kuha wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Both fleets in an engagement can use OGB.

I find it difficult to see the 'risk free advantage' here.

Mr Epeen Cool


You're missing the point. Not everybody is willing or able to run a booster. Forcing people to run a second account to compete in small scale or solo pvp is a huge turn off. Furthermore the sheer existance of ogb penalizes players who like fast paced, spontanious and mobile pvp. It caters to risk-averse stationary pvp. For inherent logical reasons that decreases the total number of fights happening which equals to: bad for EVE pvp which equals to: Bad mechanic being bad for EVE. It's really as simple as that. The question remains: Why doesn't CCP take action?

I fully agree. Why CCP doesnt take action? The only reason i can think of is that there are A LOT of booster alts and CCP doesnt want to loose all those subs.

I mean, the current CCP is not afraid of (balance) changes:

  • most ship types got rebalanced
  • capitals got nerfed hard
  • big changes will come to SOV warfare in June
  • bold changes to game mechanics like imunity to directional scanners or removal of fighter assist

But OGB is still in the game and AFAIK there are no plans to change it. Thats inconsistent.
Ddolik
Bohemian Veterans
Pandemic Horde
#223 - 2015-03-17 11:54:28 UTC
im against offgrid boosting
Shiva Linga
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#224 - 2015-03-17 12:29:54 UTC
I poached a baby seal during my vacation in Greenland. Was nice and tasty...
Kamahl Daikun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#225 - 2015-03-17 15:22:48 UTC
Kiandoshia wrote:
Budda Kuha wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Both fleets in an engagement can use OGB.

I find it difficult to see the 'risk free advantage' here.

Mr Epeen Cool


You're missing the point. Not everybody is willing or able to run a booster.


There is problem.

Become willing and able.

Problem is no more.

Eve 101 :D


I'm curious about this train of thought.

There are certain things that are mandatory for solo/small gang work:
A) Command skills
B) Relevant weapon and support skills
C) Fitting skills

Those are things that are either mandatory or greatly increase the efficiency of flying the ship.
OGB, however, is optional yet made more and more mandatory the longer its used in its current state. I've read over the last few pages of the thread and the notion of "OGB is mandatory for solo/small gang" is pretty prevalent. However, what's the difference between:

A) Solo/Small Gang against another Solo/Small Gang without OGB
and
B) Solo/Small Gang against another Solo/Small Gang with OGB

The answer is pretty much nothing.
Personally, I don't want to buy/train up another account just so I can have it AFK off grid to give me some bonuses. I find it a hassle and I'd rather just get drunk and ship spin at that point.
On the other hand, if it's available and not against any ToS/Conditions, I don't see a reason not to use it.

My problem is how it's becoming a necessity instead of a luxury.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#226 - 2015-03-17 15:52:15 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Just make it so the boosts can't be run within a pos. All major problems fixed.

They've already done that. I don't think there's really any issue anymore. OGB is fine.
Oddsodz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#227 - 2015-03-17 16:33:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Oddsodz
Primary This Rifter wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Just make it so the boosts can't be run within a pos. All major problems fixed.

They've already done that. I don't think there's really any issue anymore. OGB is fine.



Let me tell you about last night. Last night I was logged in to my home in lowsec that is factwar space, And I was having lots of fun chasing and being chased in my frig and destroyer ships. I would use my d-scan and see if facwar pilots was in one of the complex sites. I would then reship in to a ship that I could enter the site in and hope to have a fight. I was on my own and the only thing I had was my wits and skill at flying the ships I took. I was doing this all night. Sometime I would win, sometimes I had to run due to the target having friends that was coming to save the target (and that is cool). I was flying t1 frigs like Fed navy comets or Svipul or my wonderful hull tanked Eris. All the time I was solo. No links, I don't have link alt. Then about 11PM. I see that on one of the stations is a Damnation just idle on the undock. And then I knew my fun was over. Why? Becasue now all my targets can scram/web me before I can scram/web them. They can do it for longer ranges. Now all my skill in flying means jack ****. My weapons are now 50% less effective to any targets I now go for as they have a lower sig radius. Now all my targets are so much faster than me. I will not be able to catch them or out run them. Oh and I can not go and kill the links. As there is no why I can kill a Damnation before it docks. Oh and have to tank the gate guns too. So guess what I did. I LOGGED OFF. I QUIT PLAYING because now the locals have OFF GRID BOOSTING. All my my skill at flying spaceships was in one swoop just wiped away because now they have an off grid booster.

5 years ago CCP Soundwave said it was going to be removed (or words to that effect). 5 DAM YEARS. CCP WHY YOU SO DAM SLOW?

EDIT., As some have said. There is no point bitaching about it unless you can fix it. Well I can't fix it. But I can give "BAND AID" style ideas.

Step one = add a weapons activation timer for using link module. This will force OFF GRID BOOSTING ships to go back to using safe spots. or sitting on a POS or haven forbid, STAY WITH THE FLEET.
Step two = Change the rig calibration stats for the t2 Gravity Capacitor Upgrade II rig. Make it so that a CovOps ship can fit 2 of them.

Why do I wish to change to the above? Well right now. Only a fool puts his t3 links in a safe spot in Lowsec or hisec (W-Space has no gates or stations). The safest place to put your links is on a station or a gate. In LowSec this is a very big issue as if you wish to shoot the OFF GRID BOOSTER ship. You will in 99% of cases have to go and tank the gate/station guns. And the OFF GRID BOOSTER can just dock or jump gate at any time it likes. Now in lowsec. Most PVP is done at the Frig Dessy and cruiser level. And Gate guns will eat you in the end if you have no logi. If I am going to have to put up with fighting links all the time, I want a way to kill them. Right now they can just dock or jump and run away. Can't stop them.

So now if they have a they have weapons activation timer for using link module. They can't just sit on gates. They will go back to POS or safe spots. And if they are in a safe spot. I have a chance of killing them. All be it a ******* very low one. You see, I still need to spend 3bil of ISK on Virtue implants. Anybody that tells you you don't need implants to scan down a prober fit OFF GRID BOOSTING t3 that has the right ECCM implants and ECCM mods fitted is telling you lies. You still need Virtues.

So there is my BAND AID FIXES. How hard is that I wonder?
Avellean
Perkone
Caldari State
#228 - 2015-03-17 23:59:59 UTC
Oddsodz wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Just make it so the boosts can't be run within a pos. All major problems fixed.

They've already done that. I don't think there's really any issue anymore. OGB is fine.



Let me tell you about last night. Last night I was logged in to my home in lowsec that is factwar space, And I was having lots of fun chasing and being chased in my frig and destroyer ships. I would use my d-scan and see if facwar pilots was in one of the complex sites. I would then reship in to a ship that I could enter the site in and hope to have a fight. I was on my own and the only thing I had was my wits and skill at flying the ships I took. I was doing this all night. Sometime I would win, sometimes I had to run due to the target having friends that was coming to save the target (and that is cool). I was flying t1 frigs like Fed navy comets or Svipul or my wonderful hull tanked Eris. All the time I was solo. No links, I don't have link alt. Then about 11PM. I see that on one of the stations is a Damnation just idle on the undock. And then I knew my fun was over. Why? Becasue now all my targets can scram/web me before I can scram/web them. They can do it for longer ranges. Now all my skill in flying means jack ****. My weapons are now 50% less effective to any targets I now go for as they have a lower sig radius. Now all my targets are so much faster than me. I will not be able to catch them or out run them. Oh and I can not go and kill the links. As there is no why I can kill a Damnation before it docks. Oh and have to tank the gate guns too. So guess what I did. I LOGGED OFF. I QUIT PLAYING because now the locals have OFF GRID BOOSTING. All my my skill at flying spaceships was in one swoop just wiped away because now they have an off grid booster.

5 years ago CCP Soundwave said it was going to be removed (or words to that effect). 5 DAM YEARS. CCP WHY YOU SO DAM SLOW?

EDIT., As some have said. There is no point bitaching about it unless you can fix it. Well I can't fix it. But I can give "BAND AID" style ideas.

Step one = add a weapons activation timer for using link module. This will force OFF GRID BOOSTING ships to go back to using safe spots. or sitting on a POS or haven forbid, STAY WITH THE FLEET.
Step two = Change the rig calibration stats for the t2 Gravity Capacitor Upgrade II rig. Make it so that a CovOps ship can fit 2 of them.

Why do I wish to change to the above? Well right now. Only a fool puts his t3 links in a safe spot in Lowsec or hisec (W-Space has no gates or stations). The safest place to put your links is on a station or a gate. In LowSec this is a very big issue as if you wish to shoot the OFF GRID BOOSTER ship. You will in 99% of cases have to go and tank the gate/station guns. And the OFF GRID BOOSTER can just dock or jump gate at any time it likes. Now in lowsec. Most PVP is done at the Frig Dessy and cruiser level. And Gate guns will eat you in the end if you have no logi. If I am going to have to put up with fighting links all the time, I want a way to kill them. Right now they can just dock or jump and run away. Can't stop them.

So now if they have a they have weapons activation timer for using link module. They can't just sit on gates. They will go back to POS or safe spots. And if they are in a safe spot. I have a chance of killing them. All be it a ******* very low one. You see, I still need to spend 3bil of ISK on Virtue implants. Anybody that tells you you don't need implants to scan down a prober fit OFF GRID BOOSTING t3 that has the right ECCM implants and ECCM mods fitted is telling you lies. You still need Virtues.

So there is my BAND AID FIXES. How hard is that I wonder?



Make a boosting alt, if you feel its not worth the time or isk then don't complain. Other people have invested a lot of time and $$ into having an alt to run boosts, why would it be fair to them if that feature was removed? Would they be reimbursed for their time and money spent on this? There are to many broken grids in this game to make boosts only on grid.
Oddsodz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#229 - 2015-03-18 00:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Oddsodz
Avellean wrote:



Make a boosting alt, if you feel its not worth the time or isk then don't complain. Other people have invested a lot of time and $$ into having an alt to run boosts, why would it be fair to them if that feature was removed? Would they be reimbursed for their time and money spent on this? There are to many broken grids in this game to make boosts only on grid.



I don't a **** about players who have put money into have an extra account so they can have the "iWIN" button. Off GRID boosts is a lame "PAY2WIN" system that should have been got rid of 5 years ago.

Why should I have to pay for an extra account just to even compete?
Budda Kuha
Buster Blade
#230 - 2015-03-18 00:15:12 UTC
Oddsodz wrote:
Avellean wrote:



Make a boosting alt, if you feel its not worth the time or isk then don't complain. Other people have invested a lot of time and $$ into having an alt to run boosts, why would it be fair to them if that feature was removed? Would they be reimbursed for their time and money spent on this? There are to many broken grids in this game to make boosts only on grid.



I don't a **** about players who have put money into have an extra account so they can have the "iWIN" button. Off GRID boosts is a lame "PAY2WIN" system that should have been got rid of 5 years ago.

Why should I have to pay for an extra account just to even compete?


he's right. also, since i'm drunk, i'm gonna say this: man up! be a sportsman ffs!
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#231 - 2015-03-18 00:17:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
I seriously have no problem with off grid boosting. In fact, it's great. the booster is still in system and cannot be cloaked. If you don't like it have some scanners find the booster and then work to eliminate it.. The bottom line is without off gird boosting the Rorq is useless. Both sides in a fight have the ability to use equal boosting; if your enemy has taken the time and spent the money to set up and entrench they deserve to be a harder nut to crack. It's not the problem it's been painted to be.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Natalia Abre-Kai
#232 - 2015-03-18 00:23:19 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
I seriously have no problem with off grid boosting. In fact, it's great. the booster is still in system and cannot be cloaked. If you don't like it have some scanners find the booster and then work to eliminate it.. The bottom line is without off gird boosting the Rorq is usless. It's not the problem it's been painted to be.


Well some people whine just for the sake of whining. It's easier to kill an unsuspecting off-grid booster, then it is to kill one that is on grid in most cases. As someone mentioned before, if it's not boosting getting "targeted" it will be something else (strong pills, e-war, logi, hell... just having friends in general). Next up it will be, "It's unfair people have scanning modules on their ships to scan down my safes".
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
#233 - 2015-03-18 06:18:44 UTC
YASRSLY DEALWITIT

Everything's a game if you make it one - Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci

CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase - Frostys Virpio
Mr Coulson
S.H.I.E.L.D. HQ
Sentinels of Sukanan Alliance
#234 - 2015-03-18 12:37:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Coulson
Well guys when the Jovian Fanatics (the ones with emotions reinstalled by the virus) start running super fleets rampant through your systems and blowing up your gates -- you will LOVE your off grid booster then! LOL

Seriously though, I don't see the problem. I'm pretty new and so may see things differently. But I have seen way too many command ships serenely sitting off stations while battles rage somewhere else in the system. Do I have a problem with that, well .. yes and no. The problem is he sits there for an hour and no one even comes over to say hi. That is the problem.

Yes a few things could be done to make it not so boring and easy to run booster ships -- like maybe - chase him down and kill him? Everyone does try to find these guys .. right? To make his job that much more fun (its boring sitting all alone while everyone else has the fun of shooting someones face off) make it impossible for them to do it near stations (ie., Links make the station' or gate's Sentry Guns Ears hurt - so they shoot the nerd with the boombox) or even near friendly towers (maybe they have sensitive hearing too and just go wacko - shooting everyone in sight?)

Make it so they have to be out in the nice rich open spaces and uncloaked or sitting in an anomaly even (whoops no -- super aggro - rats have really good hearing)

so when you do show up to blow their brains to kingdom come - they can't just dock up or hide -- Oh, you DO try to find these guys right?. TBH making them dock up works too - since the links will stop working.

or even make it so the links lose most of their effectiveness when cloaked up so your Combat Scanner guy can find him in that 'safe' and jump him, you guys are trying to find and kill this guy right?

Oh and about that 'You can hide from probes thingies' :
"A warfare-linked Claymore (for example) with max leadership skills & mind-link implant becomes totally immune to probes when fitting 2x ECCM II and targeted with 3x ECCM projector II. ... may be impossible to find. "

Yeah CCP may be a need to do some balancing for that. however the guy(s) providing the 3 extra ECCM's may be probable, either way the Command ship guy will need friends to help him hide (i.e., fewer ships to shoot u in the face - more ships to probe). besides it takes a VERY long time to train to the level needed to link boost, take drugs, but a bazillion ISK worth of Implants and make enough friends to help him hide from probes, so its only fair that the scanner guy trains just as long to find him. (Taking this guy down may be worth more isk than the entire fleet he's boosting!)

So to fix this thing that most people don't like (usually because they don't have it) by making the booster's life a little more fun, but not by putting him on the grid just so he - and his year of training - isn't always the first thing alpha'd off the field. Might as well take it out of the game in that case - since no one will even train for it anymore.

This also goes back to one of my earlier posts about how newer players (and their newer Ideas that get nuked) who get frustrated with the game -- who see new ways to play, but end up not able to do it, and by the time wasted training to something that gets taken out of the game or changed so radically the new ideas wont work----- just to satisfy older players who are tired of something or stuck in one mode of play. So what ever is done, don't take game play away (even if its slightly OP), instead - add game play to counter it, make small changes, be creative. let new players coming into the game be part of what the game will become.

And did I mention I have seen lots of command ships being ignored? Come on.. track him down and put a stake through his heart. get the guy!
Arla Sarain
#235 - 2015-03-18 12:43:51 UTC
They won't get removed.

All the "its the only way to fight with small gang against big gangs" - bollocks. OGB hurts small gangs more; who do you think is more likely to have OGB? More people - higher probability of OGB.

All OGB do is make it impossible for soloers without OGB to do anything, even against another seemingly solo player.
kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
#236 - 2015-03-18 15:05:44 UTC  |  Edited by: kraken11 jensen
When you see me in local, in an fw plex. be aware. I probably don't use links. but I might have 1-2 falcon alts.

- part off game, if it was removed. people would just complain about something else probably.
Chenguang Hucel-Ge
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#237 - 2015-03-18 17:09:57 UTC
While off-grid boosting is evil, there's no way to justify using expensive boosting ships with off-grid boosting disabled. To justify that, boost will have to be buffed and this will lead just to another line of obligatory alts.
Brutus Le'montac
#238 - 2015-03-18 23:14:42 UTC
guys easy now, you are plugging the pipe with all those sweet salty tears.

anyways, offgrid boost is fine as it is. either train your own ogb up, or get friends with one, and stop crying.
its a perfectly valid mechanic, that anyone can reach if they train for it, nothing p2w, it gives a small edge, so what, you can get the same edge if you wish, instead of training for one you come here showering everyone in your buttmad tears.no wonder you stay mad, invest the time spewing on the forums towards making your own ogb.

and if ogb needs to be ongrid, how about we force rorquals and orca's on grid aswell eh? that a good idea? no?why not?
i bet i know the answer, cuz your little pesky ubercute mining fleets are at risk then to angry mean pvpers.
its not having a cake and eating it to, and thats what most of you seem to want.


HTFU was it right?
maybe this time take it seriously, cuz you are all a bunch of whiney babies.

Thought is dangerous; lack of thought, deadly!
Darth Virpio
The Jolly Leslies
#239 - 2015-03-20 16:15:12 UTC
Brutus Le'montac wrote:
guys easy now, you are plugging the pipe with all those sweet salty tears.

anyways, offgrid boost is fine as it is. either train your own ogb up, or get friends with one, and stop crying.
its a perfectly valid mechanic, that anyone can reach if they train for it, nothing p2w, it gives a small edge, so what, you can get the same edge if you wish, instead of training for one you come here showering everyone in your buttmad tears.no wonder you stay mad, invest the time spewing on the forums towards making your own ogb.

and if ogb needs to be ongrid, how about we force rorquals and orca's on grid aswell eh? that a good idea? no?why not?
i bet i know the answer, cuz your little pesky ubercute mining fleets are at risk then to angry mean pvpers.
its not having a cake and eating it to, and thats what most of you seem to want.


HTFU was it right?
maybe this time take it seriously, cuz you are all a bunch of whiney babies.



As far as I can see reading through this thread, the 'tears' here are coming from the supporters of the OGB system who seem petrified that they may, at some point in the future, lose them - or at least have the system altered to a point where they may have to change their playstyles. The only justifications being put forward seem to be "Well use one yourself and stop whining" which is about as stupid an argument as you can get. If you can't work out why its stupid then you have some logical thinking deficiency that probably needs some attention. Whichever way you cut it, its pay to win - plain and simple - and pay to win has no place in Eve. It is a factor, with the PLEX system, but it shouldn't be encouraged. Remember the lashback when CCP tried to install that model? That shows the strength of feeling in the community around that sort of mechanic.
I have an OGB alt, but only really use it when when up against another gang/player who is using boosts. Partly for the gameplay and partly because dual-boxing is a pain in the ass (even if its only to switch boosts on) - I would probably use it more if you actually had to be in the fight - which makes a lot of sense to me. Why wouldn't you want to be in the action!
Tristan Valentina
Moira.
#240 - 2015-03-20 16:25:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tristan Valentina
If OGB goes away please just give me my SP back.

Why is solo PvP so angry about people who are willing to get an advantage?

That seems like EVE 101 "Find a way to win the fight before the fight happens."

If you see honor in solo PvP fine but just because you find honor in something does not mean the other guy has to.

Tristan

(I have always wondered why CCP has not made a form of arena for these solo crazies.)