Player Features and Ideas Discussion

It's a perfectly valid point, you want Eve to simply be a clone of all the other MMO's? I don't and that's why I don't play the others


They kept making the same points that kept being shot down. This is a dumping ground for all comments to stop clogging the main board whilst CCP do whatever they are going to do with clone and implants anyway.


you aren't blocked from other content, you just have to train for it over time just like everyone else. drop that time by a 3rd and people will still complain about waiting.



The lack of PvP is not because of people having low SP but because a large number don't want to PvP. Join faction war, launch wardecs, roam thorugh known areas of null where people live for fights. Not eveyone wants to PvP and there is much more to eve than simply that.

all it takes is a plex.. few hours effort in the right place and you have made enough isk to get the plex.. if you need help/advise on how to do this.. first thing to do is find another corp that will help you.. or mail me and I can offer some advice..

1hr a day can easily get you minimum 80-100mil. But just to be clear.. I am not advocating buying SP.. while that would be awesome, it wouldn't be fair to many. I am supporting the ability to be able to move SP from one place to another.

For me the whole SP-system is shouting out loudly: "Are you new? OK, then get the FK off. You are a worthless piece of **** and a 2nd class player"

I know this topic is very controversial and has been discussed a lot but imo the "progress by offline time" is a HUUUUGE FUNDAMENTAL game design mistake.

It puts artifical unfairness onto new player, everybody who claims something different is probably not able to read and add numbers.

Here are some arguments why the Skillsystem is unfair:

1, multiplicative combat boni (in a PvP game! Thats ridicoulius!). If you do "only" 5% more damage, the whole aspect of fair comepetition is undermined. Of course I know that there is no fair competition and the game is "won" by playing metagames and prepareation. However, low SP artificially loweres the possibilities you have by a great margin.

2, "escalating difficulty" - This means new players have disadvantages which stack with each other:
-lower initial combat stats
-lower knowledge
-requirement disadvantage (for instance, Id have to use expansive faction items to be on par with cheaper fitted T2 people and even then my raw combat power is lower. So, as a new player I have to invest more in order to be competitive. How does this make sense? I doesnt. All it does is effectvly exclude new player from PvP)
I dont get it why veteran player, who have more knowledge and experience, also get an excessive passiv bonus.

All those 5% boni are MUCH TOO MUCH for a PvP driven game. If at all, those boni should be 1-2% to allow new player meaningful participation in PvP.
I wouldnt be surprised if a master 5 pilot has like ~30% more raw combat power than a master 4 pilot.(stat * stat * stat * etc)

3, The SP system is actually an antikeep up mechanic!

An argument which is often used: "But all the veterans also had to wait years to be useful" but I can tell you why is argument is nonsense:

"Relative competition"

Ofc 10 years ago, you could do well with 5 mio SP in PvP. But today the situation changed. Like 90% of all pople who try to hunt you down or are eager to PvP use T2 or T3s. And even if somebody uses a "weak" faction ship, he probably has most skills on 4-5.
There is no way to compete with this, even if you fit your ship properly. The passive combat power through skills is huge.

I come from League of Legends and as a very competitive player I can tell you: Even if you do 3% less damage, you are on a MAJOR DISADVANTAGE vs equally skilled player. And 3% doesnt seem like a lot... But in EVE, the Master 4 -> 5 differance is probably like ~30%
Ridiculous.


I can tell you what the SP System did for me:

-loss of at least 1b. For a beginner its much, but I can take it. Analysing the situation: If I had a covert cloak instead of a normal one, Id have made it.
Another situation. I lost a garmur. Was faster than my chaser who had warp scrambled me. When I died distance was like ~33 km.(vs other garmur, so he had high range) If I had accelleration control on 3+ instead of 1 and slightly more tankyness Id easily made it.

The losses are not the problem:

-I have to high sec carebear, because for low sec I am too weak. Would like to go to low or even null sec, but it does not make sense currently. And high sec is tedious, because missions are boring and everything else(sites etc) is camped by other care bearers.

-If I make a choice I will be locked in it for the nex months. Some may say this is good, because it gives choice weight, but its contradictionary to eve onlines game design:
You can do a shitton of things and to be efficient in one of those things you have to "offline progress" for like 3-6 months at least. And then you find out the activity you specialized in is boring?
In my case: I do low efficient null sec exploration with astero. If I go for T2 explorer and suddently find out exploration becomes tedious after a while I am fked.
-corp and alliance restriction. To be fair, I have to say that I have not been neglected yet, but when I read "only members with 10+mio SP" I can puke. Espacially as I know more about the game than 80+% of the player base (as I am extremly eager to learn game mechanics. In most games learning the game is more fun to me than actually playing it...)


I dont think its wrong in a game like eve online to be able to do all the stuff. The limiting factor should not be skills, but TIME and EFFORT.
Also most skills are not exclusive to each other, a general rules apply: the more the better -> thus, there is nothing like "specializsation".
The longer you "offline grinded" the better you are. No meaningful choice involved.


I could add a bunch more stuff why the SP system sucks but to come back to the actually topic:

Buying SP should be in the game as a keep up mechanic. Good PvP games always have mechanics to keep players closer together.
It would actually also benefit the veteran players: less carebearing in High sec and more corp and alliance action

Actually EVE online must be an incredible good game because it has not died out yet because of the SP system...Haha
If EVE was only mediocre the new player base would go down like crazy. 100% sure.


My idea of how the SP should look like (its not refined though):

-no Offline SP gain
-new item: "Skillbook" which gives 1000 SP and is aquireable from A LOT of different activities (in the ideal case you can get SP Books from any activity)
-Skillbook is tradeable
-Now the interesting part: For every 1 mio SP you already have, using a Skillbook gives 10 SP less. So if you have 50 mio SP, you will get only 500 SP by using a skillbook.
-Reset of Skills possible for a high cost

This idea has flaws, but its a way to begin with. I know it will never become real, because almost people in any game are against major changes, espacially if it could be a seemingly disadvantage for them.

Btw.: I never played WoW. (to avoid a lot of empty answer phrases)

You assume only PVE happens in HS.. there are way more farmers in null and wh's. Kiling PVE in eve will kill the game.
You also assume in game SP makes you a better pvp'er.. well it doesn't go watch some vids in eve is easy you tube channel
You also say you cannot survive in null or ls.. again rot.. there are many who do it from day 1 and prosper.
Two month in to eve I had 2 bil in my wallet.. there are those who do that even quicker.

You need to do some research or find a better corp cause clearly you doing it wrong.. or have been led down the garden path..

Say NO to pay2win.

Game balance should't rely on how long it takes to train requirements to fly something, but rather on ships themselves.
Additionally, you shouldn't be locked away from in-game content by the two years of subscription fees. If you can make ISK for fly a titan within a week - why the hell shouldn't you?


As much as I dislike pay-to-win, it is far better than pay-to-wait system we have now.

Reasons not to have SP purchase or skill remaps:



While I'm pretty meh about points two and three myself as it looks like attributes are going the way of the dodo I do believe the rest to be valid.

Pay for more SP already exists, as does pay for more ISK; neither is pay to win.

I do not fear having ways to buy skillpoints, as long as they are properly limited. The waiting game needs still exist, not because it is an important part of a game, but because it is an integral part of this game.

Dont be silly.

Pay to win is broken. 'Pay to wait' is relatively frustrating. it just depends if you have the attention span of a five year old or not.