These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
Insidious.
#3721 - 2015-03-10 20:52:03 UTC
Kinis Deren wrote:
This question is for CCP Fozzie and Team 5 O:

I want to raise a concern I have concerning current TCU mechanics that may be used to circumvent the underlying intention of the proposed new sov system and in particular with regards to the of use of the entosis module on TCUs:

AttentionThe Rise of the TrollPOSAttention

From Evelopedia:

Quote:
Anchoring: Must be anchored within 300AU of a systems sun; but must not be within 50km of a starbase's control tower.


What is to stop a defending alliance from anchoring the TCU near a Deathstar or a Dickstar POS to provide AFK sov defence for a given system?

Are there any plans to change the requirements for TCU placement such that they can only be placed (or moved for existing TCUs) to an unoccupied moon?


Ooh sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
Freedom Nadd
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3722 - 2015-03-10 20:54:51 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Maralek wrote:
i am completely underwhelmed and annoyed ,the game i once new and loved is slowy being dismantled and ruined, B-R made the news. A couple of cruisers fighting over a stick in the back end of nowhere wont.
CCP must hate us

Maybe after people like us are gone eve can truly reach it's golden age.

Factional Sovereignty, plexes and all.

Fweddit will turn into the next cfc and we'll become their pets.


Just get the CFC to drop all its sov, and become nomadic leet - Peeveepee Trolceptors coalition.

Roam across all of nullsec, multiple thousands of interceptors flipping all of nullsec sov on a daily basis.

The tears would be glorious.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#3723 - 2015-03-10 21:55:29 UTC
BL. In Venal. Three goon regions around us. This is gonna be good.

Need Moar Buckitz.
NoTalent
Corellian Heavy Industries
Pain And Compliance
#3724 - 2015-03-10 22:00:59 UTC
I haven't read all 187 pages of comments, so if this has been suggested then fair enough: why not make the entosis module a one time use only module. Once it has been fired, it can't be used again.

I would also make it unfittable from a mobile depot or any ship, It has to be fitted in a station. If a fleet of ceptors want to go troll sov owners as you put it, they'll have to work a bit harder at it.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#3725 - 2015-03-10 22:05:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Godfrey Silvarna
NoTalent wrote:
I haven't read all 187 pages of comments, so if this has been suggested then fair enough: why not make the entosis module a one time use only module. Once it has been fired, it can't be used again.

I would also make it unfittable from a mobile depot or any ship, It has to be fitted in a station. If a fleet of ceptors want to go troll sov owners as you put it, they'll have to work a bit harder at it.


I kind of like this. It would restrict the meta of fleet doctrines that would be viable, since persistent hit-an-run harassment with long range fleets would be difficult, but the restriction might be fairly small, I hope.

I hope some dev sees this suggestion and crunches some numbers about its implications.
Josef Djugashvilis
#3726 - 2015-03-10 22:10:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Post deleted, why make fun of Dear Jenny yet again...

This is not a signature.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#3727 - 2015-03-10 22:27:17 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Would you guys all please unsub now and get it over with so CCP can move forward and away from "Sov Rent Online"? If you would have provided content instead of "blue donut online" none of this would have happened. Your bad I guess.



I don't get the hate. I really don't.

Faction warfare takes care of its participants just fine - so fine in fact that it attracts farmers from all parts of space, because the ISK is honestly so much better and the entry barrier so low. Honestly, FW people are pampered; they have nothing to lose and everything to gain from FW. Compare that to Sov as it is imagined now; barring any interesting Ihub upgrades they have planned, it's all work and no reward.

Some people want Sov to mean something, and some people want to fly something larger than a frigate in an MMO, you know, where you progress over time? Some people also want content that is dynamic, not the pre-packaged, fast-food content that FW represents. This will literally never happen so long as the rewards of Sov are so terrible compared to the now large amount of effort it may take to hold.

A nascent alliance or corp, as it is now, has no motivation to try and take space. They are literally better going to FW space or WH space. Ideally there would be no 'better', as each space should give interesting pluses and minuses.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#3728 - 2015-03-10 22:38:31 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Ugly Eric wrote:
So much hate towards CCP. People crying of Fozzie nerfing everything. Yet they fail to see how much more balanced things are now than they were before. "ability to use t1 cruisers were nerfed to oblivion by jump fatigue" Honestly I find claims like that hilarious. T1 cruisers can use gates you know.

You people need to chill out. The proposed sov changes may not create the best ideal sov mechanics, but atleast it will be way better than it is now. Most of players ideas on this thread are outright useless. Though out by narrow minded ppl wanting only to buff their own way of sov living.

I agree that the proposed changes may not be the ideal situation for my way of living, but atleast it stirs the nest. If I would have it my way, it would penaltize ppl of having more sove than they can use. It would nerf lsec FW and hsec incursion incomes so much, that 0.0 would be the only feasable way of keeping your accounts plexed. The occupancy model would include pvp as it's main meter and most important meter. It would let us destroy player built stations. It would make it possible to claim lsec to nullsec and hsec to lsec (and vice versa). It would nerf the living **** out of passive alliance level income and make all income individual level. It would let the supercapitals to be docked. It would introduce more endgame content. It would give older players the edge on on their skillpoints to some usage.
But hey. I cant have it my way. I have only the CCP way to play this game with. And yet I keep playing. As are all of you whiney faglets too. And most of you keep doing so. As will I.

Adapt or die. Been the keyphrase in eve for as long as this game has excisted. I hope to damn it will keep doing so.

I love you Eric.

Eric4CSMXI
I fear for the future of eve..

Like how Eric manages to change wording to suit his own need.

Is a little naive if he believes this change does not exactly suit Tri's "previous" way of living and playing in nulsec. Adapt or die, is very apt here, look at the sov map and ask yourself - who is the best looking target ATM, a 15,000 man alliance or a 700 man alliance?

A little whiner - "I can only play how ccp let me" - yet is criticizing others for saying they don't like this change and would like to see it made better. Poking fun at those who would push for a better sov system for all.

And being narrow minded enough to want to nerf the rest of eve to suit him , well, nough said.

Eric 4CSMX1 - NEVER

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Drigo Segvian
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#3729 - 2015-03-10 23:26:01 UTC
Freedom Nadd wrote:
How to fix Nullsec, the 15 point plan.


1. Reduce Highsec incursion spawns to 2.

2. Increase Sansha HP in incursions by 50%.

3. Reduce income curve for HQ's to 20 million at 50 ships.

4. Increase Level 4 mission standing requirement to 7.0, Increase Level 5 mission requirement to 9.0.

5. Add dynamic rat spawning to Level 3 and higher missions, increase mission rat numbers depending on number of ships in fleet (1 ship - normal spawn, 2 ships +75% spawns, 3 ships +200% spawns, 4 ships +350% spawns).

6. Remove State standings for mission agents.

7. Increase high sec ice anomaly respawn timer to 8 hours. Increase low sec ice anomaly respawn timer to 6 hours.

8. Remove any ore above Scordite from high sec.

9. Allow Rorqual class ships in High sec.

10. Remove ALL usable ore from starter systems and 1.0 space.

11. Increase NPC Corp tax to 20%.

12. Increase high sec manufacturing tax by 25%.

13. Decrease high sec refine rate by 25% and increase refine tax by 10%.

14. Remove all exploration combat sites from high sec.

15. Reduce high sec exploration sites by 50%.

Of course, will never happen.



GOOD that it wont
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#3730 - 2015-03-10 23:40:51 UTC
Freedom Nadd wrote:
How to fix Nullsec, the 15 point plan.


1. Reduce Highsec incursion spawns to 2.

2. Increase Sansha HP in incursions by 50%.

3. Reduce income curve for HQ's to 20 million at 50 ships.

4. Increase Level 4 mission standing requirement to 7.0, Increase Level 5 mission requirement to 9.0.

5. Add dynamic rat spawning to Level 3 and higher missions, increase mission rat numbers depending on number of ships in fleet (1 ship - normal spawn, 2 ships +75% spawns, 3 ships +200% spawns, 4 ships +350% spawns).

6. Remove State standings for mission agents.

7. Increase high sec ice anomaly respawn timer to 8 hours. Increase low sec ice anomaly respawn timer to 6 hours.

8. Remove any ore above Scordite from high sec.

9. Allow Rorqual class ships in High sec.

10. Remove ALL usable ore from starter systems and 1.0 space.

11. Increase NPC Corp tax to 20%.

12. Increase high sec manufacturing tax by 25%.

13. Decrease high sec refine rate by 25% and increase refine tax by 10%.

14. Remove all exploration combat sites from high sec.

15. Reduce high sec exploration sites by 50%.

Of course, will never happen.


While some of those are indeed good overall things to do, you still need a reason to want Sov over the alternatives. For example, there are lots of big, scary low sec alliances that source their line income either from L5s or FW, and would have the power to take sov if they wanted it under the new system. Key word is, as always, if they wanted to. Simply put, they would be foolish to take on that liability when they can secure a better life and better income where they currently are.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#3731 - 2015-03-10 23:45:23 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Would you guys all please unsub now and get it over with so CCP can move forward and away from "Sov Rent Online"? If you would have provided content instead of "blue donut online" none of this would have happened. Your bad I guess.

I don't get the hate. I really don't.

Faction warfare takes care of its participants just fine - so fine in fact that it attracts farmers from all parts of space, because the ISK is honestly so much better and the entry barrier so low. Honestly, FW people are pampered; they have nothing to lose and everything to gain from FW. Compare that to Sov as it is imagined now; barring any interesting Ihub upgrades they have planned, it's all work and no reward.

Some people want Sov to mean something, and some people want to fly something larger than a frigate in an MMO, you know, where you progress over time? Some people also want content that is dynamic, not the pre-packaged, fast-food content that FW represents. This will literally never happen so long as the rewards of Sov are so terrible compared to the now large amount of effort it may take to hold.

A nascent alliance or corp, as it is now, has no motivation to try and take space. They are literally better going to FW space or WH space. Ideally there would be no 'better', as each space should give interesting pluses and minuses.

This may be eve but I still wouldn't recommend trying to go about learning how to hate in eve.

But if you want to, then it probably isn't too hard.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#3732 - 2015-03-10 23:51:10 UTC
Freedom Nadd wrote:
How to fix Nullsec, the 15 point plan.


1. Reduce Highsec incursion spawns to 2.

2. Increase Sansha HP in incursions by 50%.

3. Reduce income curve for HQ's to 20 million at 50 ships.

4. Increase Level 4 mission standing requirement to 7.0, Increase Level 5 mission requirement to 9.0.

5. Add dynamic rat spawning to Level 3 and higher missions, increase mission rat numbers depending on number of ships in fleet (1 ship - normal spawn, 2 ships +75% spawns, 3 ships +200% spawns, 4 ships +350% spawns).

6. Remove State standings for mission agents.

7. Increase high sec ice anomaly respawn timer to 8 hours. Increase low sec ice anomaly respawn timer to 6 hours.

8. Remove any ore above Scordite from high sec.

9. Allow Rorqual class ships in High sec.

10. Remove ALL usable ore from starter systems and 1.0 space.

11. Increase NPC Corp tax to 20%.

12. Increase high sec manufacturing tax by 25%.

13. Decrease high sec refine rate by 25% and increase refine tax by 10%.

14. Remove all exploration combat sites from high sec.

15. Reduce high sec exploration sites by 50%.

Of course, will never happen.


Nerfing high sec to fix null.

Well, isn't that a new and original idea that's not in the least bit stupid. Oh wait...

Mr Epeen Cool
Julii Hex
Doomheim
#3733 - 2015-03-10 23:51:51 UTC
Man I was really hoping this game would go in the direction of world of warcraft so it would be easier on people but these new changes are going to make life in nulsec extremely active, crazy and difficult. People in large alliances are no longer going to feel so safe in their large swaths of nulsec space. Looks like talent will finally trump size.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#3734 - 2015-03-11 00:36:12 UTC
Julii Hex wrote:
Man I was really hoping this game would go in the direction of world of warcraft so it would be easier on people but these new changes are going to make life in nulsec extremely active, crazy and difficult. People in large alliances are no longer going to feel so safe in their large swaths of nulsec space. Looks like talent will finally trump size.

Heh heh heh....

That's the spirit... I think massadeath might welcome this optimism into moa

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3735 - 2015-03-11 00:40:07 UTC
How to fix Null:

1) Disband CFC
2) ????
3) Profit

amirite?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#3736 - 2015-03-11 00:43:20 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
How to fix Null:

1) Disband CFC
2) ????
3) Profit

amirite?

How can CCP or moa disband the cfc, it makes no sense as our security is a bit better than that.

Rather, it should read:
0: End the CFC's 0.0 Dream
1: Watch CFC perish

then you can continue to step 2

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jenna Frey
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3737 - 2015-03-11 00:43:21 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
How to fix Null:

1) Disband CFC
2) ????
3) Profit

amirite?



You sir are an absolute genius. You can quote me on that.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3738 - 2015-03-11 00:54:49 UTC
Freedom Nadd wrote:
How to fix Nullsec, the 15 point plan.


1. Reduce Highsec incursion spawns to 2.

2. Increase Sansha HP in incursions by 50%.

3. Reduce income curve for HQ's to 20 million at 50 ships.

4. Increase Level 4 mission standing requirement to 7.0, Increase Level 5 mission requirement to 9.0.

5. Add dynamic rat spawning to Level 3 and higher missions, increase mission rat numbers depending on number of ships in fleet (1 ship - normal spawn, 2 ships +75% spawns, 3 ships +200% spawns, 4 ships +350% spawns).

6. Remove State standings for mission agents.

7. Increase high sec ice anomaly respawn timer to 8 hours. Increase low sec ice anomaly respawn timer to 6 hours.

8. Remove any ore above Scordite from high sec.

9. Allow Rorqual class ships in High sec.

10. Remove ALL usable ore from starter systems and 1.0 space.

11. Increase NPC Corp tax to 20%.

12. Increase high sec manufacturing tax by 25%.

13. Decrease high sec refine rate by 25% and increase refine tax by 10%.

14. Remove all exploration combat sites from high sec.

15. Reduce high sec exploration sites by 50%.

Of course, will never happen.

These are fair, reasoned changes.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3739 - 2015-03-11 00:58:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Alp Khan
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I was able to earn 108m an hour in Cobalt Edge with a carrier and oracle on grid


Wow, 108 mil per hour (54 mil per hour per toon). Nice.

In high sec you can use a Mach and make 86 mil per hour doing lvl 3 missions while being protected by CONCORD.

So for the cost of using TWO characters and a CAPITAL SHIP that takes months to train for, and while flying in space where the space police won't help you, you get a whopping, mind blowing 22 million isk extra per hour total.

Thanks for helping us empirically demonstrate the imbalances we were discussing, imbalances that end up distorting everything ccp tries to do with null sec.


Jeez Jenn, let it go man.

CCP ain't listening to you.


Jenn makes a point by presenting actual figures and math that can be substantiated.
So far, you have brought nothing to the ongoing discussion besides "CCP SAYS SO".

Unless you have a serious intention of starting a new religion with various CCP developers who misread statistics as deities, you are trolling and you will get laughed at.

Meanwhile Jenn and other people who can provide figures and solid arguments can and will continue posting.
If you are serious about the religion thing, this is not the place.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3740 - 2015-03-11 01:10:00 UTC
But... but... guize.... null makes more isk per hour than any area in the game, we need to nerf it