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[Discussion] Entosis Link Tactics and Ship Balance

First post First post First post
Author
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#501 - 2015-03-09 18:54:22 UTC
As mentioned, the Eagle and the Cerb both annihilate Intys at extreme ranges.

There were, however, some questions from the slower parts of the class on how a cerb would hit an inty moving at, say, 137km from a TCU.

In order to help with that, I drew a picture. 2 Pictures, in fact. Enjoy.

Pic 1
Pic 2
Acuma
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#502 - 2015-03-09 18:55:15 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Acuma wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Killian Cormac wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
you don't capture command nodes, you go to other systems and generate more initial RF timers while the defenders are busy whacking pimples


Which spawn their own command nodes two days later, which is then undone in 30 minutes by 5 people.

so one uncatchable attacker should require five or more people to counter then eh


Or one ship to undock and warp to you so you get scared and run away when you see it 14au's away on d-scan......

and then proceed to another capture object and start over


And if there's even one person in system you just play a game of jumping from gate to gate......if there's not even one person in system, why have sovereignty?
captain fovios
Sons of Zeus.
The Initiative.
#503 - 2015-03-09 18:55:56 UTC
Iski Zuki DaSen wrote:
E-Link can be fitted in :

Ceptors frigates destroyers = NO
Cruisers = Maybe
Battlecruisers = YES YES HELL YES ( brings a reason for peeps to actually use them once again )
Batleships =yes
Carriers= maybe
Supers= NO NO NO HELL NO

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#504 - 2015-03-09 18:56:11 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
However, if you continue to pose your arguments as :

We want good fights.

this is where you've lost the thread

at no point is goonswarm federation interested in good fights

defense of our empire comes first, subjugation of those who would even think of attacking our empire comes second, subjugation of everyone else comes third

fights occasionally occur in the process of completing these two objectives but are completely tangential to our desires and goals

Big smileBig smileBig smile
That was pretty slick. Excellent avoidance of every relevant point in the post.

Nice to know some things never change. Blink

when i can topple the entire post by refuting its primary fulcrum with a minimum of effort i will usually choose that option

Glad to hear it. Not that you did of course... as that was far from it's primary point.

But you knew that already didn't you?

A little secret... so does everyone else. Blink

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#505 - 2015-03-09 18:56:16 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Combat probes will land it in engagement range every time. 100km is plenty when you land within 50-70km of your target.

combat probes show up on dscan

the interceptor gets to disengage before you even start aligning for warp in your slow ass destroyers

You're stuck for 2 minutes with the module active. More than enough time to land on the structure, probe you, warp to you from within 250km, and kill you.

Trollceptors are not invulnerable, and are irrelevant to any entity that is willing to defend their space. They will never cap / RF a single node from anyone who doesn't totally suck. Period.

The fact that you're trying to get them nerfed so hard so fast has a lot more to do with how much Gewns have been bawling about Interceptor bubble immunity since it was introduced to the game. It's simply more problematic for you all if it can impact sov as well.

I notice that noone is whining about cloaking nullified T3s with even longer lock ranges, more DPS, more EHP, and self rep capability can use these same modules.

an interceptor uses the time to burn off grid, and you aren't guaranteed to notice the interceptor immediately when its cycle renews; most often it will have <1m on its timer

covert nullified strat cruisers are much slower than interceptors both in impulse speed and warp speed, and are actually possible to catch; i have fond memories of pulling two DG Invulns off of a covert nullified loki that I decloaked and caught in a gatecamp once (well, back when those were actually worth something)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#506 - 2015-03-09 18:56:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
MASSADEATH wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
MASSADEATH wrote:
come on a corm sniping fleet :) and it will cure your doubts

ah yes the cormorant with its staggering 80-100km range

Combat probes will land it in engagement range every time. 100km is plenty when you land within 50-70km of your target.

combat probes show up on dscan

the interceptor gets to disengage before you even start aligning for warp in your slow ass destroyers

DO YOU GUYS EVEN PVP?

are you telling me you are incapable of killing ceptors?

you just alpha them off the grid.... lock target.... POP..... ceptor gone....

heck you even know the max range of where they have to be around a given structure...

Sheesh, why worry so much?

You don't even have sov, rather, you get to be the one with the interceptors.


Oh I see, you want things left as is so you get to use the interceptors. Clever use of the discussion

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#507 - 2015-03-09 18:57:03 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
MASSADEATH wrote:


DO YOU GUYS EVEN PVP?

Just ignore promiscuous, the guy's a troll. You can provide them a fit that will kill these "5km/s 150km-locking-trollceptors" in an envelope from 50km to 150km and they'll still go "LOLOLOLOLOL NO INTY INVINCIBLE TROLOLOLOLO."
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#508 - 2015-03-09 18:57:23 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
As mentioned, the Eagle and the Cerb both annihilate Intys at extreme ranges.

There were, however, some questions from the slower parts of the class on how a cerb would hit an inty moving at, say, 137km from a TCU.

In order to help with that, I drew a picture. 2 Pictures, in fact. Enjoy.

Pic 1
Pic 2

orbiting a target would be extremely stupid in a trollceptor, you want to sit at a point far away from any celestials and burn at an angle off grid
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#509 - 2015-03-09 18:58:28 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

Glad to hear it. Not that you did of course... as that was far from it's primary point.

But you knew that already didn't you?

A little secret... so does everyone else. Blink

nah, your post was "you want good fights yet you do all this crap that prevents you from getting them thus you are a hypocrite"

when good fights are not really on our list of desires
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#510 - 2015-03-09 18:58:39 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:

PotatoOverdose wrote:

Holy **** you're bad. I could link you a ship that owns interceptors up to 150km, and you'll still moan like a stuck pig.

And you know what? I'm gonna do just that. Behold the mighty eagle:

Eagle: http://imgur.com/KYZDvc5
Eagle vs. MWD Stiletto: http://imgur.com/v537Sv8
185 DPS at 120km
60 DPS at 150km.
Uses thorium if you're wondering (don't be bad by using spike).

If, by some miracle, the inty locks at 150km, it's fit is so bad that those 60dps will massacre it.

Please. Stop. Being. Bad.

ah yes the interceptor that is polite enough to sit inside the eagle's optimal long enough to arrive from 14AU away, decelerate from warp, lock, and fire on it

Are you really that bad?
Read the graph again.
http://imgur.com/v537Sv8
With thorium loaded, against a stiletto moving at speed it does
50 dps at 50km
185 dps at 120km
60 dps at 150km

THIS KILLS YOUR 150 KM LOCKING INTERCEPTOR IN AN ENVELOPE FROM 50KM to 150km. WHILE IT'S MOVING. AT 5KM/S.


60 dps isnt going to kill anything. These cepters are not going to sit there and let you pepper them with bb guns, they will eith be out of range when you land our out of range when you lock them.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#511 - 2015-03-09 18:58:52 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
As mentioned, the Eagle and the Cerb both annihilate Intys at extreme ranges.

There were, however, some questions from the slower parts of the class on how a cerb would hit an inty moving at, say, 137km from a TCU.

In order to help with that, I drew a picture. 2 Pictures, in fact. Enjoy.

Pic 1
Pic 2

orbiting a target would be extremely stupid in a trollceptor, you want to sit at a point far away from any celestials and burn at an angle off grid

Remind me, how far does your inty lock?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#512 - 2015-03-09 18:59:19 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

Glad to hear it. Not that you did of course... as that was far from it's primary point.

But you knew that already didn't you?

A little secret... so does everyone else. Blink

nah, your post was "you want good fights yet you do all this crap that prevents you from getting them thus you are a hypocrite"

when good fights are not really on our list of desires

Remember the whole ncdot in fountain, only going where there's action, ie: backto grind their renter space after sovdrop?

Yeahhh

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#513 - 2015-03-09 18:59:32 UTC
Acuma wrote:
And if there's even one person in system you just play a game of jumping from gate to gate......if there's not even one person in system, why have sovereignty?

you leave the system and abuse your best-in-class warp speed to get to another beacon
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#514 - 2015-03-09 19:00:32 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
As mentioned, the Eagle and the Cerb both annihilate Intys at extreme ranges.

There were, however, some questions from the slower parts of the class on how a cerb would hit an inty moving at, say, 137km from a TCU.

In order to help with that, I drew a picture. 2 Pictures, in fact. Enjoy.

Pic 1
Pic 2

orbiting a target would be extremely stupid in a trollceptor, you want to sit at a point far away from any celestials and burn at an angle off grid

Remind me, how far does your inty lock?

your assumption is that i would want to stay on grid to try to capture the objective when an obvious anti-interceptor ship waddles into dscan range

at that point the objective is already lost and the primary objective is to escape
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#515 - 2015-03-09 19:01:39 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
your assumption is that i would want to stay on grid to try to capture the objective when an obvious anti-interceptor ship waddles into dscan range

at that point the objective is already lost and the primary objective is to escape

At which point the defender's objective of ... defending ...is complete

1-0 defence without even landing on grid.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Acuma
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#516 - 2015-03-09 19:01:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Acuma
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Acuma wrote:
And if there's even one person in system you just play a game of jumping from gate to gate......if there's not even one person in system, why have sovereignty?

you leave the system and abuse your best-in-class warp speed to get to another beacon

And if they are also in a inty? Pretty sure they warp just as fast. How far do you think an inty can travel in the 12-40 or so minutes it takes to RF a system?
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#517 - 2015-03-09 19:02:08 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Super Noodle wrote:
Fozzie, can you please scrap this entire plan you've come up with to rework sov and start over from scratch. It's garbage.


No, it's really not. There are some issues, but it's better than what we have now.

Of course tunnelling out of Alcatraz with a plastic spoon would be better than what we have now.


Why yes, Fozzie Sov is really garbage at this state. Even pre-Dominion sov with pos control is better than Fozzie Sov, and that should be telling.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#518 - 2015-03-09 19:02:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:

PotatoOverdose wrote:

Holy **** you're bad. I could link you a ship that owns interceptors up to 150km, and you'll still moan like a stuck pig.

And you know what? I'm gonna do just that. Behold the mighty eagle:

Eagle: http://imgur.com/KYZDvc5
Eagle vs. MWD Stiletto: http://imgur.com/v537Sv8
185 DPS at 120km
60 DPS at 150km.
Uses thorium if you're wondering (don't be bad by using spike).

If, by some miracle, the inty locks at 150km, it's fit is so bad that those 60dps will massacre it.

Please. Stop. Being. Bad.

ah yes the interceptor that is polite enough to sit inside the eagle's optimal long enough to arrive from 14AU away, decelerate from warp, lock, and fire on it

Are you really that bad?
Read the graph again.
http://imgur.com/v537Sv8
With thorium loaded, against a stiletto moving at speed it does
50 dps at 50km
185 dps at 120km
60 dps at 150km

THIS KILLS YOUR 150 KM LOCKING INTERCEPTOR IN AN ENVELOPE FROM 50KM to 150km. WHILE IT'S MOVING. AT 5KM/S.


60 dps isnt going to kill anything. These cepters are not going to sit there and pepper them with bb guns, they will eith be out of range when you land our out of range when you lock them.


Jesus christ.

An interceptor fit to lock AT 150 FRICKEN KILOMETERS DOES NOT HAVE A TANK. 60DPS will murder **** kill it,

If the inty "only" locks at 90km the eagle will kill it with 170 dps. The Cerberus will kill it with 300-400 RLML dps (90km inty, 137km range missile, do the math).

Baltec, even you aren't this dumb.
Proton Stars
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#519 - 2015-03-09 19:02:32 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
This argument over interceptors completely misses the problem with the proposed Entosis mechanic: The "trollceptor" isn't impossible to catch, it's unworthy to catch. People PvP for 4 reasons:

  1. Fat killmails. Entosis ships will be cheaper than a Retriever.
  2. Tears of the enemy. Entosis ships are sent out to die, no one will cry over them.
  3. "Kudos" for being good. An Entosis ship is a lone (very fast) sitting ducks orbiting a structure with a warning sign over it. It'll likely be AFK.
  4. To win. You'll never win. You can save/take the timer today, but as the enemy suffered no losses, he'll be back. Or someone else, like a drunken highsec miner in a 1 day old alt and takes your Sov if you let down your guard just once.


So a player has zero reason to hunt them. The alliance has, so people will be red pen CTA-d/paplinked into Entosis fleets and will hate it. Living in Sov will be a forever grind of mandatory Entosis-frig hunting. While there were crying over the boredom of structure grind, you could at least hope for an escalation. No one will escalate a tackled frigate. In structure grind, you were at least in a fleet, half-AFK, chatting. In Entosis duty, you'll be all alone, orbiting a structure.

If it will be introduced, everyone who considers EVE a game will leave nullsec. The obsessive-compulsive will orbit the structures with 32 accounts (likely with bots).



so much sense. cant handle. wow
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#520 - 2015-03-09 19:03:03 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
your assumption is that i would want to stay on grid to try to capture the objective when an obvious anti-interceptor ship waddles into dscan range

at that point the objective is already lost and the primary objective is to escape

At which point the defender's objective of ... defending ...is complete

1-0 defence without even landing on grid.

agreed, they have managed to defend that one objective in significantly less agile ships

now the interceptor is RFing something else, better waddle out at 3 AU/s to the next beacon or bring a logarithmically increasing number of defenders to stop one person