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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Author
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2761 - 2015-03-06 01:09:43 UTC
Papa Django wrote:
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:

I'm not sure there's even a change that could bring down a well organized medium business like the CFC


CCP must make that scale of fat entities unmanageable by nerfing jump fatigue for logistic again (forcing localized industry and localized market) and reducing the alliance size on the map with exponential sov fee.

Outposts must be destroyable.


Please make outposts destroyable. We've wanted that for years.

We've also been arguing for localized industry and markets. Really, the problem you're going to run into here is: if you make it difficult to move a jump freighter across the map, who's going to have an easier time getting resupplied or buying/selling? The alliance with 200 guys and 4 jfs, or the one with 12,000 guys and hundreds of jfs to share the fatigue?

Once again: There is not, and in all of human history never has been a problem that cannot be solved better using the application of more brainpower.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2762 - 2015-03-06 01:11:05 UTC
Arrendis wrote:

Once again: There is not, and in all of human history never has been a problem that cannot be solved better using the application of more brainpower.


Cancer?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Tamdra Beebort
Terrestrial Trading Consortium of New Eden
#2763 - 2015-03-06 01:12:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


There isnt anything extreme about it.

Right now we have several sigs out attacking all across eve while running a highsec organisation, WH sigs and a large home defence force. We can deploy several thousand pilots to the task of attacking targets without reducing home defence.



I get that and I believe that you can and do but the next question is how long can you pilots keep it up? It is the opposite of blue balling, seems like after the first week or so of E-linking a structure to just be chased off to another would drive burn-out up. GSF is great at organizing but individuals are already complaining about having to be vigilant just to keep their space. How long will it last? Is GSF capable of continuing a "burn Null" campaign for more than a month or so. I am trying to look at this objectively because I want the game to fun and interesting to everyone.

We shouldn't get tunnel vision on one specific hull or setup to the point that it blinds us from the point of the changes, fun. We want fun fights and hell camping a station for a week may be fun to one side and not the other but with these changes the fight has to continue in different parts of space and that will probably require more that a few ceptors with an E-link and if it doesn't then the losing side deserves to lose.

If you flood a region with interceptors and it causes lots of fights, some of which escalate in larger fights then the mechanic works and if you flood a region and the occupants don't defend and lose space the mechanic works. Either way I don't see how one group can keep up a sustained offensive of system trolling without suffering burnout or without causing larger fights. Either way there will be a winner and loser and both will be determined more by activity and less by inactivity.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2764 - 2015-03-06 01:13:39 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Arrendis wrote:

Once again: There is not, and in all of human history never has been a problem that cannot be solved better using the application of more brainpower.


Cancer?


Invading Russia in the winter.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2765 - 2015-03-06 01:14:21 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Arrendis wrote:

Once again: There is not, and in all of human history never has been a problem that cannot be solved better using the application of more brainpower.


Cancer?


Invading Russia in the winter.


The perpetual motion law.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2766 - 2015-03-06 01:14:37 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Arrendis wrote:

Once again: There is not, and in all of human history never has been a problem that cannot be solved better using the application of more brainpower.


Cancer?


Which has shown better results? 1 guy in a lab, or hundreds of research teams all over the place?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2767 - 2015-03-06 01:14:59 UTC
Tamdra Beebort wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


There isnt anything extreme about it.

Right now we have several sigs out attacking all across eve while running a highsec organisation, WH sigs and a large home defence force. We can deploy several thousand pilots to the task of attacking targets without reducing home defence.



I get that and I believe that you can and do but the next question is how long can you pilots keep it up?


We have been doing it for the last 5 years.
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2768 - 2015-03-06 01:16:17 UTC
Tamdra Beebort wrote:
how long can you pilots keep it up?


I have absolutely no doubt that if an organization as large as Goonswarm can reliably entertain it's members by RF'ing the rest of nullsec every few days, then they absolutely will just because they can.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2769 - 2015-03-06 01:17:38 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Arrendis wrote:

Once again: There is not, and in all of human history never has been a problem that cannot be solved better using the application of more brainpower.


Cancer?


Invading Russia in the winter.


The perpetual motion law.


Show me the solution to their of those 'problems' that came from a single mind, where teams haven't. P
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2770 - 2015-03-06 01:18:47 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Arrendis wrote:

Once again: There is not, and in all of human history never has been a problem that cannot be solved better using the application of more brainpower.


Cancer?


Invading Russia in the winter.


The perpetual motion law.


Show me the solution to their of those 'problems' that came from a single mind, where teams haven't. P


None of them have been solved, period.

There is no cure for cancer, no one has ever successfully invaded Russia during winter, and perpetual motion is physically impossible.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#2771 - 2015-03-06 01:20:27 UTC
Tamdra Beebort wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


There isnt anything extreme about it.

Right now we have several sigs out attacking all across eve while running a highsec organisation, WH sigs and a large home defence force. We can deploy several thousand pilots to the task of attacking targets without reducing home defence.



I get that and I believe that you can and do but the next question is how long can you pilots keep it up? It is the opposite of blue balling, seems like after the first week or so of E-linking a structure to just be chased off to another would drive burn-out up. GSF is great at organizing but individuals are already complaining about having to be vigilant just to keep their space. How long will it last? Is GSF capable of continuing a "burn Null" campaign for more than a month or so. I am trying to look at this objectively because I want the game to fun and interesting to everyone.

We shouldn't get tunnel vision on one specific hull or setup to the point that it blinds us from the point of the changes, fun. We want fun fights and hell camping a station for a week may be fun to one side and not the other but with these changes the fight has to continue in different parts of space and that will probably require more that a few ceptors with an E-link and if it doesn't then the losing side deserves to lose.

If you flood a region with interceptors and it causes lots of fights, some of which escalate in larger fights then the mechanic works and if you flood a region and the occupants don't defend and lose space the mechanic works. Either way I don't see how one group can keep up a sustained offensive of system trolling without suffering burnout or without causing larger fights. Either way there will be a winner and loser and both will be determined more by activity and less by inactivity.



I just noticed I wasn't posting on my main.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson

Shuckstar
Blue Dreams Plus
#2772 - 2015-03-06 01:29:08 UTC
Two step wrote:
Suggestions for addressing the timezone issues:

1) Expand the window to 8 hours
2) If you pick a 4 hour window, you also get a 2 hour window 10 hours from the end of your chosen window. This would mean that a US TZ window would have an opposite time that would be RUS friendly and an EU window would have AUS friendly times.


This, the prime time 4 hours needs to be changed to 8 at least.

CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2773 - 2015-03-06 01:29:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Arrendis wrote:

Once again: There is not, and in all of human history never has been a problem that cannot be solved better using the application of more brainpower.


Cancer?


Invading Russia in the winter.


The perpetual motion law.

Erectile dysfunction
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2774 - 2015-03-06 01:30:28 UTC
Shuckstar wrote:
Two step wrote:
Suggestions for addressing the timezone issues:

1) Expand the window to 8 hours
2) If you pick a 4 hour window, you also get a 2 hour window 10 hours from the end of your chosen window. This would mean that a US TZ window would have an opposite time that would be RUS friendly and an EU window would have AUS friendly times.


This, the prime time 4 hours needs to be changed to 8 at least.

Should be switched to the corps owning the structure. Offers very good flexibility.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2775 - 2015-03-06 01:31:20 UTC
Rowells wrote:

Erectile dysfunction


That was actually solved, but interestingly enough it was solved by accident while trying to create heart medication.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#2776 - 2015-03-06 01:31:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Tamdra Beebort wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


There isnt anything extreme about it.

Right now we have several sigs out attacking all across eve while running a highsec organisation, WH sigs and a large home defence force. We can deploy several thousand pilots to the task of attacking targets without reducing home defence.



I get that and I believe that you can and do but the next question is how long can you pilots keep it up?


We have been doing it for the last 5 years.



Then this mechanic shouldn't be much of a change for your people with the exception that you may get more fights that aren't dependent on an apex force. Again, it sounds like the new mechanic would be working because either you win because they don't undock or they fight and GFs are had.

The point is to inject activity and these changes would seem to do that allowing the occupants of systems to determine the outcome by being active or inactive. Taking and holding sov by occupancy instead of HP.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2777 - 2015-03-06 01:39:16 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
There is no cure for cancer, no one has ever successfully invaded Russia during winter, and perpetual motion is physically impossible.


Right, and so using them as examples of problems that were solved better using less brainpower doesn't work.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2778 - 2015-03-06 01:41:59 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
There is no cure for cancer, no one has ever successfully invaded Russia during winter, and perpetual motion is physically impossible.


Right, and so using them as examples of problems that were solved better using less brainpower doesn't work.


That wasn't the point. The point is to show that there are, in fact, problems that have not been solved with more brainpower.

Perpetual motion in particular is a big, big example of that. People have been trying to solve that one for almost two hundred years.

Cancer as well. Large groups have been researching that for decades, with no real effect besides killing a lot of white rats.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2779 - 2015-03-06 01:42:43 UTC
Burl en Daire wrote:



Then this mechanic shouldn't be much of a change for your people with the exception that you may get more fights that aren't dependent on an apex force. Again, it sounds like the new mechanic would be working because either you win because they don't undock or they fight and GFs are had.

The point is to inject activity and these changes would seem to do that allowing the occupants of systems to determine the outcome by being active or inactive. Taking and holding sov by occupancy instead of HP.


There are issues.

The first being the trollcepter puts too much dickery in our hands.

The second is there is no reason for any new organisation to bother trying to take a system for themselves.
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2780 - 2015-03-06 01:43:15 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Shuckstar wrote:
Two step wrote:
Suggestions for addressing the timezone issues:

1) Expand the window to 8 hours
2) If you pick a 4 hour window, you also get a 2 hour window 10 hours from the end of your chosen window. This would mean that a US TZ window would have an opposite time that would be RUS friendly and an EU window would have AUS friendly times.


This, the prime time 4 hours needs to be changed to 8 at least.

Should be switched to the corps owning the structure. Offers very good flexibility.


I think that is good idea plus 1.