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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

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Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2721 - 2015-03-05 23:33:29 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Small ships can play a role, the one they are designed for. Ceptors role is tackle and scouting, I have no problem with that but if you can fit one of these Entosis modules to a ceptor you are actually removing active game play.
They are immune to everything but "pilot stupid", so OP when it comes to being able to use a sov changing module.

2s align intys are pretty much invulnerable.

Activating an entosis link makes you a 2 minute align inty though - plenty of chance for a suitable ship to get a nice wrecking hit on you.

How? Does the Entosis module act like siege and you are unable to move for 2 mins? Or is the ceptor just going to warp off when he spots something on dscan?

If they make it so once you activate Entosis you are locked in position and can't move for 2 mins, by all means bring as many ceptors as you like.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#2722 - 2015-03-05 23:34:58 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
One big enough to have active members in all (read: spread out over most) of the systems they own. That can be 100 or 100,000, it depends how many systems they are trying to hold. A hundred (active) guys could likely hold a constellation, 100,000 could likely keep multiple regions safe.

so you should need 100 guys to be able to hold 5 systems eh


I pulled those nbers out of my ass for an example. That wasnt a guide to how many people it should take to hold a constellation Roll

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#2723 - 2015-03-05 23:35:39 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Small ships can play a role, the one they are designed for. Ceptors role is tackle and scouting, I have no problem with that but if you can fit one of these Entosis modules to a ceptor you are actually removing active game play.
They are immune to everything but "pilot stupid", so OP when it comes to being able to use a sov changing module.

2s align intys are pretty much invulnerable.

Activating an entosis link makes you a 2 minute align inty though - plenty of chance for a suitable ship to get a nice wrecking hit on you.

How? Does the Entosis module act like siege and you are unable to move for 2 mins? Or is the ceptor just going to warp off when he spots something on dscan?

If they make it so once you activate Entosis you are locked in position and can't move for 2 mins, by all means bring as many ceptors as you like.


you can not warp once the mod is activated. you can orbit but can;t get away for 2 min

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#2724 - 2015-03-05 23:35:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
Sgt Ocker wrote:
How? Does the Entosis module act like siege and you are unable to move for 2 mins? Or is the ceptor just going to warp off when he spots something on dscan?

If they make it so once you activate Entosis you are locked in position and can't move for 2 mins, by all means bring as many ceptors as you like.

You can't warp whilst the link is cycling - You're stuck on grid until you can burn off far enough to reach the next one or the module cycle ends.

Defensive grid-fu around your own points (edit: and prepared warp ins for sniper ships to land at) will help in this respect.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#2725 - 2015-03-05 23:38:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Cleanse Serce
Quote:
Entosis Links have a significant cycle time (5 minutes for the Tech One variant, 2 minutes for Tech Two) and do not start affecting the battle for control of the target structure until the end of their first cycle.

Activating an Entosis Link also causes ships to become extremely vulnerable for the duration of the module’s cycle: the equipped ship cannot warp, dock, jump or receive remote assistance until the cycle completes.



Would be interesting to know though if the cycle is still concidered cycling even though your out of range.

- Let's say, i activate a 5minutes long cycle Entosis.
- @ 2mn cycle I see ennemies burning to me.
- I Pull range, get out of target range.
- @ 3mn I lose target.

Can I still warp off ?
Would've been good to know.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#2726 - 2015-03-05 23:39:43 UTC
Cleanse Serce wrote:
Would be interesting to know though if the cycle is still concidered cycling even though your our of range.

- Let's say, i activate a 5minutes long cycle Entosis.
- I see ennemies burning to me.
- I Pull range, get out of target range.
- I lose target.

Can I still warp off ?
Would've been good to know.

It's been raised before and no answer yet but it makes a mockery of the system if you can cap yourself out, have friendly ECM or just pull range to cancel out the effects

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2727 - 2015-03-05 23:41:06 UTC
Cleanse Serce wrote:
Would be interesting to know though if the cycle is still concidered cycling even though your our of range.

- Let's say, i activate a 5minutes long cycle Entosis.
- @ 2mn cycle I see ennemies burning to me.
- I Pull range, get out of target range.
- @ 3mn I lose target.

Can I still warp off ?
Would've been good to know.


If it is like most modules, for example A HIC bubble , then until the cycle ends, you are not going to be able to warp anywhere, even if there is no one in your bubble. But naturally it would be good to have confirmation that that is the case.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#2728 - 2015-03-05 23:43:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Cleanse Serce
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Cleanse Serce wrote:
Would be interesting to know though if the cycle is still concidered cycling even though your our of range.

- Let's say, i activate a 5minutes long cycle Entosis.
- @ 2mn cycle I see ennemies burning to me.
- I Pull range, get out of target range.
- @ 3mn I lose target.

Can I still warp off ?
Would've been good to know.


If it is like most modules, for example A HIC bubble , then until the cycle ends, you are not going to be able to warp anywhere, even if there is no one in your bubble. But naturally it would be good to have confirmation that that is the case.


Not quite like HIC, cause even if there're no pilots in your bublle, your bubble is still active till its end of cycle. (kind of an AoE)

There it's an activable module ON one target.

Could be a new timer that pops out when you activate the module.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2729 - 2015-03-05 23:44:14 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Small ships can play a role, the one they are designed for. Ceptors role is tackle and scouting, I have no problem with that but if you can fit one of these Entosis modules to a ceptor you are actually removing active game play.
They are immune to everything but "pilot stupid", so OP when it comes to being able to use a sov changing module.

2s align intys are pretty much invulnerable.

Activating an entosis link makes you a 2 minute align inty though - plenty of chance for a suitable ship to get a nice wrecking hit on you.

How? Does the Entosis module act like siege and you are unable to move for 2 mins? Or is the ceptor just going to warp off when he spots something on dscan?

If they make it so once you activate Entosis you are locked in position and can't move for 2 mins, by all means bring as many ceptors as you like.


you can not warp once the mod is activated. you can orbit but can;t get away for 2 min

Ok my bad, I somehow missed that.
It gives ceptors a drawback to using an Entosis so therefore I remove my objection.

I would still personally like to see Entosis tied to battle cruisers, a ceptor can freely roam until he finds the ideal spot for 2 mins of uninterrupted "kill sov" whereas a battle cruiser is going to need some sort of a support fleet to even get the the location. Seems it would create more content than a few ceptors roaming around taking sov.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#2730 - 2015-03-05 23:46:22 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Honest question... when was the last time an R64 moon was a conflict driver? You have the OTECH and other agreements by the big 3. AFAIK there have not been any major battles over moon goo in YEARS

Hell not that along ago i was syphoning from a goon r64 that had no guns on it.


We fight over individual R64s all the time. As for 'when was the last time moons were the cause for a major war?'... well, we did invade Fountain in 2013 over moons.

Last year, everything shifted over to rental empires, but moon goo is still a good-sized chunk of income.
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#2731 - 2015-03-05 23:47:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Cleanse Serce
Ceptors is just something pointed by people scared of easy sov warfare that did not read carefully.

I'm sure, people won't come with ceptors to activate Entosis.
Well atleast, not in DEFENDED systems.
Buzz Dura
S0utherN Comfort
#2732 - 2015-03-05 23:48:27 UTC
Quote:
breakthroughs in the field of mind-machine interfacing


Quote:
The Entosis Link module represents the central interaction mechanic


Quote:
The Entosis Link is used for all kinds of manipulation of these structures. In general, activating an Entosis Link on a structure you own will activate and protect it, while activating an Entosis Link on a structure you do not own will disable, reinforce or capture it.


Sounds to me like the one in power is the one in command.

This module should be restricted to command capable class ship like BC/command/T3/carrier/orca/rorqual with special bonus from hull to specific sov structure : rorqual could be more efficient in hacking station services like cloning etc..
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2733 - 2015-03-05 23:48:41 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Sgt Ocker wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Small ships can play a role, the one they are designed for. Ceptors role is tackle and scouting, I have no problem with that but if you can fit one of these Entosis modules to a ceptor you are actually removing active game play.
They are immune to everything but "pilot stupid", so OP when it comes to being able to use a sov changing module.

2s align intys are pretty much invulnerable.

Activating an entosis link makes you a 2 minute align inty though - plenty of chance for a suitable ship to get a nice wrecking hit on you.

How? Does the Entosis module act like siege and you are unable to move for 2 mins? Or is the ceptor just going to warp off when he spots something on dscan?

If they make it so once you activate Entosis you are locked in position and can't move for 2 mins, by all means bring as many ceptors as you like.


you can not warp once the mod is activated. you can orbit but can;t get away for 2 min

Ok my bad, I somehow missed that.
It gives ceptors a drawback to using an Entosis so therefore I remove my objection.

I would still personally like to see Entosis tied to battle cruisers, a ceptor can freely roam until he finds the ideal spot for 2 mins of uninterrupted "kill sov" whereas a battle cruiser is going to need some sort of a support fleet to even get the the location. Seems it would create more content than a few ceptors roaming around taking sov.


Remember though, an interceptor, can only effectively start the first stage of the process, when the reinforcement timer states capture can commence, then they would be exterminated by a defending fleet if they tried. However, If no one turns up to defend? Everyone knows the date and time of the battle. No fleet is there? No defence? Then there is no one living there, or they are unwilling to fight for their home. Why should they expect to hold on to sovereignty? Why should they complain about how easily they were defeated.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#2734 - 2015-03-05 23:50:11 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Ok my bad, I somehow missed that.
It gives ceptors a drawback to using an Entosis so therefore I remove my objection.

I would still personally like to see Entosis tied to battle cruisers, a ceptor can freely roam until he finds the ideal spot for 2 mins of uninterrupted "kill sov" whereas a battle cruiser is going to need some sort of a support fleet to even get the the location. Seems it would create more content than a few ceptors roaming around taking sov.

Ceptors are only gonna be able to take undefended sov. If it's defended then you can bring all your other ships to the party even caps and supercaps if the defence is strong enough to warrant it - although the multiple capture points and shifting positions of engagement for the fight as it comes out of RF will mean you'll want to split up your blob of caps into smaller parts.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
D0GS OF WAR
#2735 - 2015-03-05 23:50:21 UTC
Gypsien Agittain wrote:
Kinis Deren wrote:
Corey Lean wrote:
My only thoughts on the whole thing is: there should be a degree of risk and commitment on the side of the attackers as the defenders already took a risk by putting down there flag in space and spending isk on infrastructure, etc.


Awwww, poor you and your 40,000+ goonie friends can't defend your "investment" in your prime time from me and my lil' old 'ceptor. If you are not prepared to defend your broad swathes of unoccupied sov then maybe you shouldn't be in null sec and should consider a much larger tactical withdrawal?

This whole comments thread really has brought out the nullbears and their self entitlement philosophy. I'm hoping CCP stay the course with these changes, and go even further, as you are all in need of the HTFU medicine.



As long as you think a group of 1k people against 40k can do anything you'll be obliterated as the talis. You're not more than a terrorist group against the big motherf USA of New Eden. Keep on deliring while you stick to npc null, or try to get sov and get obliterated on your way.


Them's fighting words boi .... except you are a liddle NPC corp nobody or did you get kicked after we killed your ratting carrier prehaps?

Well, Mr NPC corp gooniewannabee, at least you are talking about actually wanting to fight, rather than docking up like a little kitty at the first sight of me in local, so you could say the proposed changes are already working, OP SUCCESS!
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2736 - 2015-03-05 23:55:43 UTC
Cleanse Serce wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Cleanse Serce wrote:
Would be interesting to know though if the cycle is still concidered cycling even though your our of range.

- Let's say, i activate a 5minutes long cycle Entosis.
- @ 2mn cycle I see ennemies burning to me.
- I Pull range, get out of target range.
- @ 3mn I lose target.

Can I still warp off ?
Would've been good to know.


If it is like most modules, for example A HIC bubble , then until the cycle ends, you are not going to be able to warp anywhere, even if there is no one in your bubble. But naturally it would be good to have confirmation that that is the case.


Not quite like HIC, cause even if there're no pilots in your bublle, your bubble is still active till its end of cycle. (kind of an AoE)

There it's an activable module ON one target.

Could be a new timer that pops out when you activate the module.

Good point, It is likely for CCP to use existing mechanics for timers, but of course one should not assume. Confirmation would be good at some point. Certainly the warp restriction would only be logical if it lasted the full cycle, otherwise one could just shut down lock and warp away at any time, and CCP is unlikely to miss that exploit.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
D0GS OF WAR
#2737 - 2015-03-05 23:57:27 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Small ships can play a role, the one they are designed for. Ceptors role is tackle and scouting, I have no problem with that but if you can fit one of these Entosis modules to a ceptor you are actually removing active game play.
They are immune to everything but "pilot stupid", so OP when it comes to being able to use a sov changing module.

2s align intys are pretty much invulnerable.

Activating an entosis link makes you a 2 minute align inty though - plenty of chance for a suitable ship to get a nice wrecking hit on you.

How? Does the Entosis module act like siege and you are unable to move for 2 mins? Or is the ceptor just going to warp off when he spots something on dscan?

If they make it so once you activate Entosis you are locked in position and can't move for 2 mins, by all means bring as many ceptors as you like.


you can not warp once the mod is activated. you can orbit but can;t get away for 2 min

Ok my bad, I somehow missed that.
It gives ceptors a drawback to using an Entosis so therefore I remove my objection.

I would still personally like to see Entosis tied to battle cruisers, a ceptor can freely roam until he finds the ideal spot for 2 mins of uninterrupted "kill sov" whereas a battle cruiser is going to need some sort of a support fleet to even get the the location. Seems it would create more content than a few ceptors roaming around taking sov.


... and welcome to Bubbles Online where every sov null gate will be bubbled to hell and back to greatly impede the hacking ships. Your suggestion strikes me as a thinly veiled attempt to preserve the status quo.
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#2738 - 2015-03-05 23:58:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Cleanse Serce
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Good point, It is likely for CCP to use existing mechanics for timers, but of course one should not assume. Confirmation would be good at some point. Certainly the warp restriction would only be logical if it lasted the full cycle, otherwise one could just shut down lock and warp away at any time, and CCP is unlikely to miss that exploit.


The timer thing could be a good "indirect" way to 'force' people using tankier ship to activate Entosis on structures, specially in "sensitiv" systems (ones that are supposed to be heavily defended)

I believe the T2 version (@250km) is one of those indirect way.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#2739 - 2015-03-06 00:00:21 UTC
Cleanse Serce wrote:
Quote:
Entosis Links have a significant cycle time (5 minutes for the Tech One variant, 2 minutes for Tech Two) and do not start affecting the battle for control of the target structure until the end of their first cycle.

Activating an Entosis Link also causes ships to become extremely vulnerable for the duration of the module’s cycle: the equipped ship cannot warp, dock, jump or receive remote assistance until the cycle completes.



Would be interesting to know though if the cycle is still concidered cycling even though your out of range.

- Let's say, i activate a 5minutes long cycle Entosis.
- @ 2mn cycle I see ennemies burning to me.
- I Pull range, get out of target range.
- @ 3mn I lose target.

Can I still warp off ?
Would've been good to know.



you must not mine... or use a cyno

exsample:

When mining, if you have two beans on a single rock, and they both cycle, one starts its next cycle, the other finished and poped the rock, the frst beam will complete its cycle regaurdless of the target being there, untill such time as it finished and goes 'oh roid is gone' or you cancle it. even if you pull range, the cycle STILL goes to completetion, it just gives you no ore cause your out of range.

In the instance of a cyno, it doenslt matter when you stop they cycle, it will still finish, regaurdless of whats going on.

My guess is, you will be locked into your cycle like a seige, triage, cyno, bastion, etc.

you will have to stay in range for the cycle to finish. So you start cycle, 2m in reds show up, at 3m you burn out of range, at 5 the cycle ends but it would error out as you are now out of range. same with your lock breaking.

Think of it like a hack, if you don;t finish the hack you will have to start all over.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#2740 - 2015-03-06 00:00:54 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
CCP I spoke to some ex-players about this change, most of who left due to sov being meh, and so far everyone who I spoke to were positive and were thinking about re-subbing so they can carve out their own space even if its precarious. Stick to your guns on this, its being well received by people who left because doing sov was impossible with supers on line.

Of course they're supportive of this idea. They don't have sov, and this change makes it easier to take sov.

They should really question, though, whether their reasons for having sov in the first place have been addressed.


I know and they know why they want sov, how about its fun to fight over real estate being the primary motive, without being rolled over with no way to compete. These guys also have Supers and Titans, so will be even more amusing...

That's a reason to take sov, not a reason to have it.