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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two First post First post First post
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Nat Silverguard

Aideron Robotics

Aideron Robotics.

Likes received: 775

#2141 - 2015-03-05 09:49:17 UTC

Lurifax wrote:

Nat Silverguard wrote:

Arrendis wrote:

SilentAsTheGrave wrote:

For those who are claiming they will take over half the galaxy in 40 minutes with their swarms of interceptors; what are your plans for protecting your space while you are away? Do you honestly think no one will do the same thing to you?

Actually, if you check the comments in the trollceptor article on TMC, I did the math: CONDI could mount an active defense of every sov structure it owns and still theoretically have 50% of its 11,997 members available to troll.

Quote:

I have faith your pilots will learn how to use more than just the F1 key. Blink

Really? Cuz we don't. :)

that article is d*mb, what's the value of the "trollceptor's" speed, mobility and range if all the defender needs to do is just sit right next to the node and capture it with it's own entosis thingy to stop the "capturing event's" progress? they don't even need to attack, just tank the assault and endure it for 4 hrs...

That is going to be 4 lovely hours sitting there with the defence beam. Sounds like a good mechanic right ? The attacker has everything to win and nothing to lose.

if they can do it to me, i can do it to them also right? if not, then i don't have a business being there.

attacker is wasting/enjoying/trolling/playing his 4hrs attacking my node to no avail, im also wasting/enjoying/trolling/playing my 4hrs defending it. just a matter of POV. Smile

Just Add Water

Sbrodor

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 182

#2142 - 2015-03-05 09:51:18 UTC

i think\hope will only change the shape of the intel, we will not see, hopefully, random roam searchig target but maybe we can have:

sbrodor> XXX station service under attack, 15 cruiser fleet
or
sbrodor> YYY hub (p7) under attack, need support 20 svipul gang

this is for me AWESOME! we do a defence patrol for REAL threat and not only for fun and training!

OF course i THINK, and HOPE, the REWARD of holding sov will be great.

from june holding a sov is not a joke or a heritage, is a duty. DAILY DUTY.

Setupping a weekly calendar with a primetime-daily-defence-standing-fleet between the major pvp entity is a must.
IF this fleet cannot Hold the ground at LEAST CAN engage hostile while major cohalition fleet coming. Disrupting, taking time, SKIRMISH become a part of SOV HOLDING and that is awesome.

If today we fight and die for killing a 20 hostile fleet roaming in primetime today is, in fact, USELESS.
they roam roam and if nothing found come back home. no fun , no sense.
tomorrow is a part of sov holding, is AWESOME! Today what is the sense of making in hostile 0.0 a pvp roam?

I expect the right to anchor low-sec-style-guns at gate and ihub or station, Excellent PVE reward in invu-time, lot of isk, more challeging pve and more intensive pvp. in fact a more dense EVEOnline.

i'm so excited.

i have a question:
at timer node spawn after reinforce. ok.
BUT if NO one conquered 10 nodes after the end of vulnerability time , what happen?
they keep existing till timer come to 10 or they lockdown?
if we set the primetime 19-22 and node spawn what happen at 22.01?
i hope setting the timer allow the .30 minut half hour set.

sorry for my english

Arrendis

TK Corp

Likes received: 4,252

#2143 - 2015-03-05 09:52:04 UTC

SilentAsTheGrave wrote:

The same tears were spilled over the jump fatigue mechanic and that change has proven to be very healthy for the game as a whole, despite the vocal minority who relied so heavily on teleporation to do even the most basic things in the game.

Actually, if you go back and look, a lot of the initial complaints about jump fatigue were about a)logistics of living out in null, and b)the fact that it was possible to rack up a jump timer of over 8 millenia.

And those got addressed.

Sgt Ocker

What Corp is it

Likes received: 1,401

#2144 - 2015-03-05 09:52:07 UTC

SilentAsTheGrave wrote:

Arrendis wrote:

SilentAsTheGrave wrote:

Goons are incapable of fighting alone in such small numbers. So to entertain the idea that they would fair well in small scale combat is laughable - much less solo pvp. Blink

I'm just taking playful jabs by the way. I mean no harm.

Goons are not a 12,000 man alliance, they are a 40,000 man coalition - You never fight "Goons", you fight the CFC.

My opinions are mine.

If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Kagura Nikon

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,148

#2145 - 2015-03-05 09:52:27 UTC

Bezdar22 wrote:

lemme tell u whats gonna happen...

there will be FW like fights in null sec.. no more big fights.. frig fights every where...

what they dont understand ppl coe top play this game coz they heard of big fights.. thats what make story .. not small fights.

small fights just look cool thats about it..

this game wil become WOW pretty soon.. thats where CCP leading us.

There will still be big fights. But wars will not be a LOT of boredom waiting for failed opportunitie sof such big fights.. and then suddenly end after a single big fight.

Wars will be more interestign with several smaller engagements, until someone tries to go for a very important target when Big fight WILL happen. The only difference is that the bigh fight will not be on a single grid, but spread all over the constellation.

More tactical depth, more strategical opportunities. THe need of real fleet commanders, not people that just call targets. The need of a hierarchy of command because you will have several ' regiments" in a fleet that must spread

"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,148

#2146 - 2015-03-05 09:56:59 UTC

Amyclas Amatin wrote:

Timezone-locked faction warfare. What could possibly go wrong?

The FIXED timezone thing is the only real problem.

I would just make it opposite. An alliance can set a 4 window period where it cannot be attacked. To cover their worst time. The rest of the time is up to them to arrange a solution.

"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"

Primary This Rifter

Mutual Fund of the Something

Likes received: 1,230

#2147 - 2015-03-05 10:00:03 UTC

Dracvlad wrote:

CCP I spoke to some ex-players about this change, most of who left due to sov being meh, and so far everyone who I spoke to were positive and were thinking about re-subbing so they can carve out their own space even if its precarious. Stick to your guns on this, its being well received by people who left because doing sov was impossible with supers on line.

Of course they're supportive of this idea. They don't have sov, and this change makes it easier to take sov.

They should really question, though, whether their reasons for having sov in the first place have been addressed.

Lurifax

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 27

#2148 - 2015-03-05 10:01:02 UTC

Kagura Nikon wrote:

Bezdar22 wrote:

Have you ever fought a sov war? You are not going to see small gangs zipping around fightting for the nodes.

Vigilanta

S0utherN Comfort

Likes received: 117

#2149 - 2015-03-05 10:03:23 UTC

Arrendis wrote:

SilentAsTheGrave wrote:

the 30 day fatigue timer still sucks balls for those who dont pay attention, it really needs to be capped at a week max

Lurifax

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 27

#2150 - 2015-03-05 10:04:08 UTC

Dracvlad wrote:

And they think that the new sov is better? It like your xgirlfriend. You sometimes forget why you left until you have that "ooh" moment again.

Kagura Nikon

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,148

#2151 - 2015-03-05 10:04:28 UTC

Rain6637 wrote:

At this point I'm pretty sure the Entosis' stats are intentionally being presented in a broke OP state (by Fozzie) for the hype. I predict Entosis will be changed to require X number of Entosis minutes (or hours) which can be sped up with multiple Entosis lasers at once, from both sides. So basically the contest will be a rolling count of total Entosis minutes with the winner being the side with an X minute / hour lead.

This is just like the time Rise said "PS: permadeath. PEACE!" at the end of EVE Vegas. For the hype. Something tells me he didn't want to do it, and was put up to it by someone managing, well, hype.

So you fail at understanding the very BASICS of their proposal. The KEY thing is NOT ESCALATING WITH NUMBERS!!

That is the Only reason why these proposals are interesting! because it will be more interesting to have several smaller fleeets than a HUGE BLOB on most of the war period. Because a small group can disable a system from a much larger alliance even with 10-20 ships if the owning alliance has no one living on that system. Because it will be the same speed for the average joe league to take a system as it would be for CFC do the same.

People whined so much about force projection, but they always failed to study proper strategy and notice that the problem is force CONCENTRATION! Force projection is just a mean to achieve force concentration! The lack of a limit or diminishing return in force CONCENTRATION is the root of all evil in 0.0

It makes the war in eve closer to strategic level of real world wars and with more depth. It does not amtter if you had the whole damm red army or just a regiment of 1k soldiers. Takes exactly the same time to take a village of grape farmers in south of France with either force! Because you cannot make such massive force concentration!

"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"

SiKong Ma

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 21

#2152 - 2015-03-05 10:05:16 UTC

Miner Hottie wrote:

SiKong Ma wrote:

Here's my 2 cents of opinion to CCP:

1) Entosis link is OP unless there's a serious speed and range nerf - I suggest rename entosis link a a boarding collar (or launching of boarding parties) and every minute consumes 1 marine and 1 supply/min (or whatever figure CCP can "balance") making the ideal ship to do this job, deep space transports. Ship must be below certain speed to start boarding operations and cargohold limits how long you can sustain a "boarding". So 200 ceptors trying to board, possible but you gotta have a transport supplying you the manpower (and later on you can link with the DUST thingy if you want). Of course the structure itself have a certain number of marines in defence and it can be topped up by defenders if their troopships don't get destroyed (defenders will have the advantage of getting marines in). Initial attack on station will be like a small boarding party to gain information of key locations to strike in system followed by spawning of all those command nodes.

2) All hauling ships armed with boarding collar may not have cloak installed as the boarding collar disrupts with the cloaking ability making them targets to be hunted.

3) Capitals have no role now except to bash moons and POS - with introduction of troop hauling ships, capitals will have a role and dreads gets useful in dropping the caps that tried to kill the troopships (can even consider giving them troop bays so they can board too).

4) Ratters/Industrialists and miners are leechers - well, now they can fly those troop hauling ships making them really valuable assets to defend and those are cheap, let non-combatant be non-combatant, it is their preferred life-style but allow them to contribute.

5) Blitz will be the next meta - well, you can't exactly blitz with just 1 transport ship of troops and those are easy to kill if not properly defended.

6) Where do I get soldiers - planetary interaction (introduce troops training facility and supply factories).

War must include soldiers both in space and on land (or in stations). Fullscale warfare includes supplies and soldiers and if you deny either of those, there's no one to make war or assert control. Also, works well with lore and think of the press value (2,000,000 troops killed and 20 million supply units captured in failed assault by Giraffe Swan on New Cataleya alliance). Anyway, just my fantasy.

Unironically this idea actually makes some sense, it works with the lore and isn't as stupidly easy to encourage excess griefing.

One more suggestion I missed out:

A) Command nodes are protected by NPC ships much like anomalies, if a big attack fleet comes in, those pesky NPC makes no difference, taking it in a bunch of ceptors, well, as hard as doing anomalies in a bunch of ceptors and still need troopships to dock and take those strategic command nodes (I'd call them garrison bases).

B) If a space is left undefended, a BS or carrier with some transports hauling troops can easily and quickly take a system.

C) In order for smaller entities to survive in null sec, logistics is the key and small entities cannot afford to haul upgrades that require freighters (and thus Titan bridge in), so make infrastructure hub upgrades smaller so smaller entities can rebuild if they missed a timer.

That makes 4 cents :D


Arrendis TK Corp Likes received: 4,252	#2153 - 2015-03-05 10:05:58 UTC Vigilanta wrote: the 30 day fatigue timer still sucks balls for those who dont pay attention, it really needs to be capped at a week max It does, but it's a lot better than 'you will never jump again'.

Vigilanta

S0utherN Comfort

Likes received: 117

#2154 - 2015-03-05 10:06:37 UTC

Lurifax wrote:

Kagura Nikon wrote:

Bezdar22 wrote:

Have you ever fought a sov war? You are not going to see small gangs zipping around fightting for the nodes.

If a whole constellation comes out of rf in the same day and you want to win a majority of the timers this is exactly what will happen, and it unironically wont be very fun because fighting wont be the obejctive capturing as many nodes as fast as possible will be, then you may fight over the last few, but by that time 2 hours have passed and half of each fleet is ready to log. I mean im all for small gang but i want sov warfare to actualyly be warfare between medium sized fleets, not warfare between 10 man gangs all rushing ot caputre nodes.

Nat Silverguard

Aideron Robotics

Aideron Robotics.

Likes received: 775

#2155 - 2015-03-05 10:08:15 UTC

Lurifax wrote:

Have you ever fought a sov war? You are not going to see small gangs zipping around fightting for the nodes.

with this mechanic, you will be forced to because those big ships that you usually use will be very slow to manuever all over the constellation.

or bring in more pilot to have them spread out in every system of that constellation, but still, warping those big ships to node range would be pita.

Just Add Water

Kagura Nikon

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,148

#2156 - 2015-03-05 10:08:17 UTC

Kah'Les wrote:

This Entosis Link need it's price rised say you make it cost 1 bill I say this is fair as you can take as many systems you want with 1 Entosis Link. And if the ship carrying the Entosis Link get destoyed it still got a chance of being droped, not destoyed as all other sov structores <.<

This is also gone make people fitt it to more tanky ships and not interceptores, making the attackers at least risk something to reinforce a system. Also a ship that fitt a Entosis Link should not be able to cloak and not be nullified so this FLAG SHIP is gone need constant protection. A little bit how we did Freighter protection into null before.

Edit: Also make so you have to be in a station to fitt it, so you can only attack from LOW sec or NPC null.

1 Bil is a bit too much. CCP clearly wants to divorce the concept of capital ship online from sov. I think 300M for a long range variant would be enough. There should be more variants. Close range and slow... very cheap. Close range and fast.... average Long range ans slow Averaeg priec.... long range and fast.. very expensive.

And again for all the Interceptors doomsayers. If you live in system, you just undock a SINGLE MARAUDER or carrier and putyour own entosis link to counter it. A bunch of interceptors will NOT kill you, and if then the fight escalates... that is exaclty what this system is supposed to create.

"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,148

#2157 - 2015-03-05 10:10:42 UTC

Lurifax wrote:

Kagura Nikon wrote:

Bezdar22 wrote:

Have you ever fought a sov war? You are not going to see small gangs zipping around fightting for the nodes.

Yes, I fought in 0.0 for a long time and I learned something, people will do whatever is needed to win. That coupled with understanding MATH.. leads to a simple conclusion.... if you do not split forces under this new system you will ALWAYS LOSE! IF you keep 1K people at one location and let the enemy split his 300 people in 3 groups you will LOSE the RACE!

ADAPT OR BECOME OBSOLETE! THE CHOICE IS YOURS!

"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,148

#2158 - 2015-03-05 10:13:01 UTC

Nat Silverguard wrote:

Lurifax wrote:

Have you ever fought a sov war? You are not going to see small gangs zipping around fightting for the nodes.

The simple usage of interdictors at gates will be enough to make using a single capital force to contest the constellation an exercise of futility. As soon as the fleet arrives, 2 or 3 other nodes will have been taken by the more spread and more mobile force.

Capital ships will still be the center on moons take overs, and destruction of POS with tactical structures.

"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"

Dracvlad

Taishi Combine

Astral Alliance

Likes received: 3,498

#2159 - 2015-03-05 10:13:11 UTC

Primary This Rifter wrote:

Dracvlad wrote:

I know and they know why they want sov, how about its fun to fight over real estate being the primary motive, without being rolled over with no way to compete. These guys also have Supers and Titans, so will be even more amusing...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

AngeDeMort

CyberMachine

Likes received: 0

#2160 - 2015-03-05 10:14:43 UTC

Please consider a minimum ship-size for this new module.. Maybe cruiser or battle-cruiser and upwards..? Maybe only HACs and upwards? Maybe a new cruiser and upwards?

But please keep low-fitting requirements, so as not to gimp a pvp fit..

Please do not allow these trollceptors to exist.

These changes look fantastic!

Thanks for your time..

Eve IS the best game. Always was, always will be. Cool

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