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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

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Serene Repose
#1561 - 2015-03-04 17:07:52 UTC
This looks more like a "figure it out as we go" thread than a "discuss the new changes" thread.
Not very interesting, but indeed a curiosity.

I see we have the "you know what would make this game perfect?" crowd out in force. Try not to think, you guys.

Stick to something you can do.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1562 - 2015-03-04 17:08:28 UTC
KC Kamikaze wrote:
The "Protection" of tomorrow you speak of is todays rental agreement.

The new system will be great. Small groups can claim and hold sov. We have multiboxing alt corps holding down wormholes .. now some of those and more can move to holding their own piece of null. The only people who don't win are big coalitions .. and you have more than the means and resources to survive.



Meh. Large scale stability and stable logistic chains, along with the ability to swamp small enemies with the people they don't need for immediate self defense means that big coalitions are going to come out of this even better than the little guys.

When the bar is lowered to near 0 for taking system, the more force you can apply, the more space you can steamroll in a smaller amount of time.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1563 - 2015-03-04 17:09:24 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Karash Amerius wrote:
I am thinking the Troll Laser needs to be restricted to a heavier ship such as a battle cruiser or above.

Love the tears here...great work CCP.

Definitely not. If you can't respond to a frigate fleet, you don't live locally enough.

Restricting it to larger hulls completely undermines the concept of using your space.

why should you get to contest sov without even putting a t1 battlecruiser at risk? the issue isn't being unable to respond to an interceptor fleet, it's that an interceptor fleet has no risk whatsoever to its pilots

if you're too much of a coward to even risk a single t1 battlecruiser you have no business in the big leagues


The entosis thing should be restrcited from nullified ships. Meaning you can put one on a t3 unless you use the nullifier sub. People can still put them on the rest of frig hulls but not ceptors.

Or putting it on costs you nullification?


Could live with that yea.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#1564 - 2015-03-04 17:09:39 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:

And then 2 days later they just retake it back because you can't effectively defend the whole of nullsec.

Meanwhile all your empty systems are flipped by troll fleets every day because you're too thinly spread.

i didn't say take it, i said squash you

i then go off and squash the next guy who thought that empty space meant he could live there and delight in his squeals of rage, and then come back and squash you again once you think you're allowed to live in nullsec

you seem to think that if i can't have it that means you can have it but it is delightful to rip your tiny toys away from you and stomp on them even if they're too cheap and unfun for me to want in my massive toy box
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1565 - 2015-03-04 17:11:05 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
KC Kamikaze wrote:
The "Protection" of tomorrow you speak of is todays rental agreement.

The new system will be great. Small groups can claim and hold sov. We have multiboxing alt corps holding down wormholes .. now some of those and more can move to holding their own piece of null. The only people who don't win are big coalitions .. and you have more than the means and resources to survive.


what makes you think i won't squash you for funsies

we spent three months squashing anyone who dared mine gallente ice in highsec, what makes you think that every*Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal. who raises a flag isn't going to look like a nail to swing my massive hammer at


Well that was hardly difficult was it, all the mining ships of that period had the tank of a wet paper bag, I would like to see you try it now on Skiffs and Procurer fleets, I doubt you will have the same level of success because it is no longer like taking candy from babies...

Yes of course you are going to wield that hammer, but the fun part is that smaller entities will go light, TCU next to a deathstar and some even working together to deal with your hammer, it will be fun won't it?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Joe Themachine
Sleeper Tech. Research Foundation
#1566 - 2015-03-04 17:12:09 UTC
For God's sake CCP....sometimes I think you guys want to complicate things just for the sake of complication...All that wont work..just get rid of reinforcement mode, get rid of all time delays, and have it so that if you sit on it for x hours, its yours..done!

why must you complicate things while not achieving your goals?
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1567 - 2015-03-04 17:12:12 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
EvilweaselFinance wrote:

what makes you think i won't squash you for funsies

we spent three months squashing anyone who dared mine gallente ice in highsec, what makes you think that every *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal. who raises a flag isn't going to look like a nail to swing my massive hammer at


I think we all absolutely expect CFC to scorched earth massive portions of the null map on a regular basis. But since you won't actually be CLAIMING that sov, merely burning it, it's not going to stay fun for very long.

In short, you'll get bored, and go away to burn some other part of the map. And the people who actually live in that region will finally undock and reclaim sov for the other 50 weeks of the year.

It'll be no different than wardeccing a high-sec corp. They'll just dock up for the week or two of your scorched earth campaign in their area, tear down any valuable POS's, and wait it out.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#1568 - 2015-03-04 17:12:49 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
i didn't say take it, i said squash you

i then go off and squash the next guy who thought that empty space meant he could live there and delight in his squeals of rage, and then come back and squash you again once you think you're allowed to live in nullsec

you seem to think that if i can't have it that means you can have it but it is delightful to rip your tiny toys away from you and stomp on them even if they're too cheap and unfun for me to want in my massive toy box

How do you squash me when my troll fleet is based out of NPC corps in highsec and just roams around every day RFing all your empty systems and never engaging in a fight? In fact, I can pretty much do that solo, I don't even need a fleet :D

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1569 - 2015-03-04 17:13:11 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:

And then 2 days later they just retake it back because you can't effectively defend the whole of nullsec.

Meanwhile all your empty systems are flipped by troll fleets every day because you're too thinly spread.

i didn't say take it, i said squash you

i then go off and squash the next guy who thought that empty space meant he could live there and delight in his squeals of rage, and then come back and squash you again once you think you're allowed to live in nullsec

you seem to think that if i can't have it that means you can have it but it is delightful to rip your tiny toys away from you and stomp on them even if they're too cheap and unfun for me to want in my massive toy box


you will be too busy defending your own ****. you have more to lose if a station flips.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#1570 - 2015-03-04 17:13:50 UTC
CCP: An idea:

1) Reduce the range and increase the cycle time of the Entosis link
2) Add a bonus to the range and cycle time of the Entosis link to some ship hulls.

Pick hulls that seem to be underutilized. Or perhaps T3's fitted with underutilized sub-systems.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#1571 - 2015-03-04 17:13:53 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Yes of course you are going to wield that hammer, but the fun part is that smaller entities will go light, TCU next to a deathstar and some even working together to deal with your hammer, it will be fun won't it?

oh dear me a deathstar however will we deal with a single pos we have never managed to take one of those down before

and oh dear me FIVE groups of ten guys each who have never ventured out of highsec and are hilariously incompetent that is so much more fearsome than one of those groups and definitely not an even richer vein of rage that ccp has still not raised you up to our level
Sar'aina
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1572 - 2015-03-04 17:14:04 UTC
So if my Alliance leader (i love him) decide:
US TimeZone go fight, then i'll never gonna do sov pvp again?

(Good to be no Australian this time)
KC Kamikaze
Blue-Fire
#1573 - 2015-03-04 17:14:33 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
KC Kamikaze wrote:
The "Protection" of tomorrow you speak of is todays rental agreement.

The new system will be great. Small groups can claim and hold sov. We have multiboxing alt corps holding down wormholes .. now some of those and more can move to holding their own piece of null. The only people who don't win are big coalitions .. and you have more than the means and resources to survive.


what makes you think i won't squash you for funsies

we spent three months squashing anyone who dared mine gallente ice in highsec, what makes you think that every shitlord who raises a flag isn't going to look like a nail to swing my massive hammer at



LMAO yes Evilweasel ... I'm sure you and your massive hammer can hold down null sec and keep *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal. at bay. I'm sure everyone will be too scared to move into null.

Sounds like a lot of fun wardeccing bears and ganking their ice miners. Roll
SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1574 - 2015-03-04 17:14:39 UTC
What if designating a prime time when these timers exit was automated instead of manually selected by the alliance?Idea

Could there be a formula that determines what four hour window the alliance is active and automatically updates each day based on the previous week or something? That way you would not have to worry about a European alliance setting their prime time for say Australian prime time to meta game around this.

I think there are some pros and cons to such a system, but I believe it is definitely worth discussing.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#1575 - 2015-03-04 17:15:16 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
How do you squash me when my troll fleet is based out of NPC corps in highsec and just roams around every day RFing all your empty systems and never engaging in a fight? In fact, I can pretty much do that solo, I don't even need a fleet :D

see you've basically proven my point: the people who want entosis on interceptors are the people who are terrified of engaging in a fight

if this system is to provoke fights then inties can't have the link
SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1576 - 2015-03-04 17:16:31 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP: An idea:

1) Reduce the range and increase the cycle time of the Entosis link
2) Add a bonus to the range and cycle time of the Entosis link to some ship hulls.

Pick hulls that seem to be underutilized. Or perhaps T3's fitted with underutilized sub-systems.

It sounds like it would be a 'go T3 or go home' due to how well it would perform compared to other hulls. I don't think that would be a good thing.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#1577 - 2015-03-04 17:18:28 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
How do you squash me when my troll fleet is based out of NPC corps in highsec and just roams around every day RFing all your empty systems and never engaging in a fight? In fact, I can pretty much do that solo, I don't even need a fleet :D

see you've basically proven my point: the people who want entosis on interceptors are the people who are terrified of engaging in a fight

if this system is to provoke fights then inties can't have the link

People who don't want interceptors with entosis links are those with huge swathes of unused Sov that won't be able to undock a simple T1 frigate and run their own link from 0km within 10-40mins of receiving an alert.

Sure I'll just be trolling/griefing/strategically harassing a large alliance with just me in my interceptor but the fact they can't turn up one pilot to stop me says alot about what they're doing with all that space.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1578 - 2015-03-04 17:19:04 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
i didn't say take it, i said squash you


What are you going to squash? Small alliances won't drop ihubs or station eggs. They'll have a TCU and a few POS's. When you come through and flip the TCU they'll evacuate any POS's they need to and then log off for a week. You'll "squash" the TCU, maybe explode some POS's (if you REALLY want to commit a fleet to that), and then leave. Next week they'll login, flip your TCU back, and go on with life as normal. Unless CFC plans to go out and defend every single TCU timer in every constellation they "squashed", you'll be nothing more than a minor annoyance a few weeks of the year.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#1579 - 2015-03-04 17:19:41 UTC
Yeah ... what most of the first few pages said.

It is either going to be easy for large alliance to wipe out small attackers
OR
Small gang will go around flagging up every structure an alliance owns to make them chase their own tails.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#1580 - 2015-03-04 17:20:43 UTC
Lena Lazair wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
i didn't say take it, i said squash you


What are you going to squash? Small alliances won't drop ihubs or station eggs. They'll have a TCU and a few POS's. When you come through and flip the TCU they'll evacuate any POS's they need to and then log off for a week. You'll "squash" the TCU, maybe explode some POS's (if you REALLY want to commit a fleet to that), and then leave. Next week they'll login, flip your TCU back, and go on with life as normal. Unless CFC plans to go out and defend every single TCU timer in every constellation they "squashed", you'll be nothing more than a minor annoyance a few weeks of the year.

i will be content with barring anyone from having any assets more sizable than a single pos with nothing valuable attached to it as they look forlornly at the station they wish they could use if not for the big bad goons