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Walking in stations

First post
Author
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#281 - 2015-02-24 05:32:29 UTC
Corwin Valour wrote:
Walking in station is a good and bad thing.

From the stand point of Starcitizen it is all about imersion.

Take this video of the game: CitizenCon 2014: Persistent Universe Demo

As for Eve Online, I'm not sure it is needed as it doesn't really fit with the way the game has been designed.



Well said.

That video proves that their are different kinds of gamers. I know people who experience pants creaming upon seeing the kind of things you see in that video... It simply doesn't do a damn thing for me. I look at it and think "man, that's a whole lot of time wasting there, I prefer to do it like EVE, dock, smash buttons, undock".

20 years ago (when I was, well, a 20 year old lol) that kind of thing would have made me turn flips, now it just seems like useless fluff. The same kind of useless fluff that a few people want to see in EVE for some reason.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#282 - 2015-02-24 05:34:56 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I talk about one little mechanic and you go on about entire stations.
(Stations and ship interiors that can be largely player built with the right tools.)
You are trivializing the development effort. Neither history, nor CCP's direct statements to us on this matter agree with you.
I am not.
One half decent developer should be able to bang this out within two weeks.
Let's run through some of the logic design from the top of my head.

Player A right click the name of someone (Player B) and clicks "invite to Captain's Quarters"
A check is run to make sure that player B is docked in the same station.
If rejected, a notice is sent back.
If accepted, they then load the Captain's Quarters, only it is the same CQ as the invitee.

Redirecting to an instance before loading.
If they feel a bit lost on how that works, they can go look at any gate and see how it direct you to load a ship in a particular system based on destination.


You can tell an idea is a bad one when someone describes how easy it would be for someone else to do something lol.
Dave kazkade
Lethal Devotion
#283 - 2015-02-24 06:43:47 UTC
I bet no dev's will give any say on WiS, because there is probably no development going on with it, I think we have to accept the fact that no matter how cool WiS would be, it will be a feature that will never show up in eve, dev's have not stated anything about it. plenty of people are asking for it, but instead we get t3 destroyers and allot of useless things that would not change the game as well and WiS would experience wise. And this is saying something because I live in wormhole space were stations dont even exist, still, walking in stations would at least add a layer to gameplay that people would have wished ccp would have started working on sooner.
Anslo
Scope Works
#284 - 2015-02-24 06:50:23 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Given that the avatars just sort of stand around and stare dead-eyed, you are talking about an experience about as immersive as this.

I suppose they can stiff-walk into each other, bumping each other repeatedly. Bumping should reset the new Trapped In Another's CQ timer, so you'd have to wait for the timer to expire to leave that person's CQ.

Fun! \o/

Edit: I haven't played a lot of MMOs besides EVE, so go easy on me here.. Lol

Dude, ******* seriously? That's a p narrow minded view of this ****. How about not generalizing something people would like for say, RP, or EVA, or some ****, k thx BYE.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#285 - 2015-02-24 07:32:41 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Given that the avatars just sort of stand around and stare dead-eyed, you are talking about an experience about as immersive as this.

I suppose they can stiff-walk into each other, bumping each other repeatedly. Bumping should reset the new Trapped In Another's CQ timer, so you'd have to wait for the timer to expire to leave that person's CQ.

Fun! \o/

Edit: I haven't played a lot of MMOs besides EVE, so go easy on me here.. Lol


This is how I spent one hour yesterday.

Find Unknown Structure.
Warn friend.
Fleet up.
Explore the massive thing (is it like 200 km tall?).
Look for the known "entry".
Try what looks like a closed gate. It is closed.
Find the known "entry".
Get inside, carefully maneuvering at 50 m/s.
Advance until colission detection stops your ship.
Meet up with friend.
Pictures!

One worthy hour indeed. Lol
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#286 - 2015-02-24 07:49:18 UTC
Dave kazkade wrote:
I bet no dev's will give any say on WiS, because there is probably no development going on with it, I think we have to accept the fact that no matter how cool WiS would be, it will be a feature that will never show up in eve, dev's have not stated anything about it. plenty of people are asking for it, but instead we get t3 destroyers and allot of useless things that would not change the game as well and WiS would experience wise. And this is saying something because I live in wormhole space were stations dont even exist, still, walking in stations would at least add a layer to gameplay that people would have wished ccp would have started working on sooner.


CCP has stated twice, through their Executive Producers, that WiS is not something they are interested with, and CCP Seagull was more specific stating that even if they did something like it, it would be as a separate game in the "franchise". And she was not talking about Legion but about some other game CCP wouldn't be able to develop until 6-8 years from now.

As facts speak louder than words (and very specially with CCP), they just wrote off the technology used for WiS, fired everyone who worked on it and all but closed the office working on it.

That of course doesn't changes the inconvenient fact that some players want more avatar content.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#287 - 2015-02-24 08:31:02 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Given that the avatars just sort of stand around and stare dead-eyed, you are talking about an experience about as immersive as this.

I suppose they can stiff-walk into each other, bumping each other repeatedly. Bumping should reset the new Trapped In Another's CQ timer, so you'd have to wait for the timer to expire to leave that person's CQ.

Fun! \o/

Edit: I haven't played a lot of MMOs besides EVE, so go easy on me here.. Lol

i took my brother's furby on the trampoline and let go on the bounce upwards by accident

the guilt over my role in this terrible tragedy has imprinted its final words as it fell to its death into my mind forevermore. 'whee! doo-ay!'

the memories haunt me to this very day
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#288 - 2015-02-24 08:46:00 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
Given that the avatars just sort of stand around and stare dead-eyed, you are talking about an experience about as immersive as this.

I suppose they can stiff-walk into each other, bumping each other repeatedly. Bumping should reset the new Trapped In Another's CQ timer, so you'd have to wait for the timer to expire to leave that person's CQ.

Fun! \o/

Edit: I haven't played a lot of MMOs besides EVE, so go easy on me here.. Lol

Dude, ******* seriously? That's a p narrow minded view of this ****. How about not generalizing something people would like for say, RP, or EVA, or some ****, k thx BYE.

You seem surprised lol

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#289 - 2015-02-24 09:10:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I am not.
One half decent developer should be able to bang this out within two weeks.
Let's run through some of the logic design from the top of my head.

Player A right click the name of someone (Player B) and clicks "invite to Captain's Quarters"
A check is run to make sure that player B is docked in the same station.
If rejected, a notice is sent back.
If accepted, they then load the Captain's Quarters, only it is the same CQ as the invitee.

Redirecting to an instance before loading.
If they feel a bit lost on how that works, they can go look at any gate and see how it direct you to load a ship in a particular system based on destination.


Despite my complete ignorance of coding (both my Mum and Brother are computer programmers), I have learned that nothing is ever simple. You have to remember that there are countless functions of even something as simple as the Captains Quarters, and that many of them might react "badly" to something you consider as straightforward as adding another character.

For a start, was the Captains Quarters ever meant to be a multiplayer environment? Sure, WiS in general was, but was the CQ? Just as easily as you assume it would "of course" be meant to allow other players in, I can imagine quite easily how the CQ could have been intended as a low-resource (Heh P) interface to the hanger ui (consider it a transition zone between space and station environments), and that you didn't enter the multiplayer environment until you loaded out the door (so purely ship-players dont get bogged down when trying to just get ships changed and get out in to space).

Which means, how will the Captains Quarters as it stands cope with an "invader" character. What happens when a visitor uses any of the CQ interactable elements? There is all manner of potential for hilarious and unexpected results.

Lets go with the simplest function, the undock control. What happens when a visitor presses the undock button in someone elses CQ? You might think it obvious that the visitor would undock in whatever ship they were in when they were ported over. But is it that obvious? There could be any number of hilarious ways CCPs code might interpret that command. You might undock in a pod (since the transfer might have resulted in you leaving your ship), or perhaps it might undock your host (since you've activated their undock process, the game might not be able to tell it was done by you and not him), or even better, you might undock in whatever ship your host was piloting (it could tell you were the one undocking, but the hosts ship is the one in the "ship ready to undock" position)! In the event of any of those ludicrous events, how does CCP alter that code. How long will that take. Would the simplest way be to disable hanger ui elements when there is a visitor. What potential issues does that then create?

Nothing is ever as simple as forum commentators claim when it comes to "simple" code changes.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#290 - 2015-02-24 09:22:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I talk about one little mechanic and you go on about entire stations.
(Stations and ship interiors that can be largely player built with the right tools.)
You are trivializing the development effort. Neither history, nor CCP's direct statements to us on this matter agree with you.
I am not.
One half decent developer should be able to bang this out within two weeks.
Let's run through some of the logic design from the top of my head.

Player A right click the name of someone (Player B) and clicks "invite to Captain's Quarters"
A check is run to make sure that player B is docked in the same station.
If rejected, a notice is sent back.
If accepted, they then load the Captain's Quarters, only it is the same CQ as the invitee.

Redirecting to an instance before loading.
If they feel a bit lost on how that works, they can go look at any gate and see how it direct you to load a ship in a particular system based on destination.


you should apply to ccp for lead developer...

this just sounds like a total waste of time, why on earth would you want another avatar in your cq? just sounds like a thing that would be used twice by a player then ignored

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Tillek
Roa Orion
#291 - 2015-02-24 10:22:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tillek
double post..
Tillek
Roa Orion
#292 - 2015-02-24 10:48:14 UTC
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
EVE wasn't designed with avatar play in mind. .


Let me stop you right there. I have here in my hand my manual I bought with the game back in 03.. Guess what is mentions.. Oh that's right A living breathing Sci Fi world with walking in stations atmospheric flight.
All these things.. Eve was brought about with the intent that it would grow and be a true sci fi emulator. I believe when I bought into the game that it's original goal was awesome. It's what drew me into the universe. For it to be shut down by whinny little hipster nit wits and elitist who think Walking in stations would harm their precious epeen and ability to PVP is asinine. CCP needs to get thei rheads out of their butts and realize

. 1. PVP can never be balanced 100%. There is to much human element in it. People will always find that .001% edge in pvp. Then everyone will flock to that Flavor of the Month till it's nerfed or a new FOTM is discovered.
2. New players. The game is going to need them at some point. A lot of potential players polled said that is one thing keeping them away from the game is for the most part they are stuck in a big metallic hulk.
3. Fun. Yea EVE is fun. I enjoy the pvp myself. I love exploring worm holes or what not. But there is nothing wrong with getting your corp mates together to Hang out in a station for a night of BS. Roleplayers as well as others can enjoy it.

So all this hate on Ambulation to me is just narrow minded bull. A bunch of punks who can't stand something they don't agree with being added. I been in this game honestly since Beta when the ideas of it's future and growth were happening and being spoke about by the DEVS and I still have my manual which even states those plans. So to say it was never designed with that in mind? You're off your rocker.

If CCP is smart. They won't leave us in the dark this time and will actually begin doing some work on Ambulation. I have the feeling SC as well as other sci fi games on the horizon might steal EVE's corner on the Sci Fi market.
Tillek
Roa Orion
#293 - 2015-02-24 10:53:10 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Dave kazkade wrote:
I bet no dev's will give any say on WiS, because there is probably no development going on with it, I think we have to accept the fact that no matter how cool WiS would be, it will be a feature that will never show up in eve, dev's have not stated anything about it. plenty of people are asking for it, but instead we get t3 destroyers and allot of useless things that would not change the game as well and WiS would experience wise. And this is saying something because I live in wormhole space were stations dont even exist, still, walking in stations would at least add a layer to gameplay that people would have wished ccp would have started working on sooner.


CCP has stated twice, through their Executive Producers, that WiS is not something they are interested with, and CCP Seagull was more specific stating that even if they did something like it, it would be as a separate game in the "franchise". And she was not talking about Legion but about some other game CCP wouldn't be able to develop until 6-8 years from now.

As facts speak louder than words (and very specially with CCP), they just wrote off the technology used for WiS, fired everyone who worked on it and all but closed the office working on it.

That of course doesn't changes the inconvenient fact that some players want more avatar content.


Can you give some links and citations on your quotes?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#294 - 2015-02-24 10:55:35 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:

this just sounds like a total waste of time, why on earth would you want another avatar in your cq? just sounds like a thing that would be used twice by a player then ignored


Exactly. It adds nothing but fluff, at the cost of development time.

Rejecting it is a no brainer.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Flamespar
WarRavens
#295 - 2015-02-24 10:56:33 UTC
Personally I'd prefer the resources being spent on Legion being used to give us avatar gameplay in EVE

That was we can have our cake AND walk around it. Lol
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#296 - 2015-02-24 11:20:05 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
You seem surprised lol


EVE is very far from being the perfect RP platform. There are other games that are far better because people can more easily accept being an elf or a satyr or a fellow in a Star Trek uniform than they can accept being a spaceship. The nods to EVE's RP community are few and far between. Sure, there are exploding stars and Drifters which can be solo'd by Ventures, but none of those are particularly compelling enough in the whole. The RP experience is an afterthought and really only perpetuates itself because of the imagination and tenacity of that community.

That said, Jen's idea grossly underestimates the development effort. I get this from CCP's clothing workshop where something as trivial to us as a new hair model was a ton of work for a developer (I believe they are not exaggerating one bit).

Jen's idea also "opens" the CQ door without any modifications that would be a basis for immersion. Without a necessary amount of immersion the feature would not see widescale use.

I don't think jumping on any novelty idea is particularly good for the game, even if short term it might seem like a cool thing to you.

I support well formed ideas with a solid 30,000 foot view, not hacks conceived of on the back of a napkin without any long term value to the game.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#297 - 2015-02-24 11:26:47 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Dude, ******* seriously? That's a p narrow minded view of this ****. How about not generalizing something people would like for say, RP, or EVA, or some ****, k thx BYE.


Did you have any specific ideas which could be discussed?

If you don't agree with my evaluation of how poor the immersion would be for Jen's idea you should articulate the opposing viewpoint instead of shooting off expletives at me.

I'd only be making a generalization if I actually said I think everyone feels that way. I even qualified my post by mentioning how little experience I have with games typically used as MMO RP platforms.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#298 - 2015-02-24 11:28:19 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

I support well formed ideas with a solid 30,000 foot view, not hacks conceived of on the back of a napkin without any long term value to the game.


The game has too many of those already. *cough Alliance mechanics cough*

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#299 - 2015-02-24 11:38:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Sibyyl
Yes well the Devs can and do implement napkin illustrations. Take the feature advertised by the blue banner on your launcher, for example..

*ducks*

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#300 - 2015-02-24 12:00:11 UTC
Tillek wrote:


Can you give some links and citations on your quotes?


Took some digging but here's the link good read for everybody unaware of that tech demo.

Quote: