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Walking in stations

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Alcaman
Followers of Odin
#201 - 2015-02-22 23:32:04 UTC

So many people have so much invested emotions in this topic!
I just want to add some sensibility with these wize words, that comes from Odin himself:
"Aaaargh! stop the annoying bickering... You guys are taking this way toooo seriously"

So, people.. Give each other a hug and ..... But wait..
We need WiS station in order for that to happen!!

I guess WiS concept won! Wohoo!
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2015-02-22 23:40:19 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:

If the Ivory soap company lost millions trying to develop salted pork scented soap that for some reason wasn't a hit with consumers, I wouldn't care. As long as they still had a reasonably priced basic product.


In this particular case, the Ivory Soap Company tried to make a Bath Tissue product, and did so by neglecting their core product, in a way that brought on the ire of their soap customers.

Then, the Ivory Soap company bought someone else's Bath Tissue product and tried to make it an Ivory Soap Company product, but they had to scrap the whole thing and excise that part of the company.

If now someone brings up Bath Tissue again, do you think it's inappropriate that people bring up two previous failed attempts, one (or possibly both) of which had a detrimental effect on the core product?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#203 - 2015-02-22 23:52:17 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:

If the Ivory soap company lost millions trying to develop salted pork scented soap that for some reason wasn't a hit with consumers, I wouldn't care. As long as they still had a reasonably priced basic product.


In this particular case, the Ivory Soap Company tried to make a Bath Tissue product, and did so by neglecting their core product, in a way that brought on the ire of their soap customers.

Then, the Ivory Soap company bought someone else's Bath Tissue product and tried to make it an Ivory Soap Company product, but they had to scrap the whole thing and excise that part of the company.

If now someone brings up Bath Tissue again, do you think it's inappropriate that people bring up two previous failed attempts, one (or possibly both) of which had a detrimental effect on the core product?
Like I said, I don't care as long as I can buy a bar of Ivory soap at a reasonable price. This I can, and have always been, able to do.

Just like EVE. I can, and have always been, able to play this game at a reasonable price. So why should I care what they're doing with their R&D funds.

Mr Epeen Cool
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#204 - 2015-02-22 23:55:40 UTC

Yeah EVE has been EVE and it's still affordable (to me) and fun.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries
#205 - 2015-02-22 23:59:29 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
[quote=Carrie-Anne Moss]


It's not about the money, Lebowski. It's about the product. And judging by the longevity of this game, the product is just fine.

Mr Epeen Cool



Actually, if the game was "just fine", i dont think there would be so much questions about changes or other forms of additions to the game.

In my opinion, i belive EVE would attract more players With WiS, which could give players a break from "just" flying in Space... or other additions that would expand the experience of EVE.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#206 - 2015-02-23 00:05:08 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features.


The arrogance of the forum people still astonishes me after all this time. If CCP caved every time you people had a tantrum this game would be radically altered on a daily basis.

The truth of the matter is that CCP developed a flawed system that was never going to be viable and used that particular player meltdown to back out of it with some dignity left. Much better to let the player base believe that they have some input in how the game should be than admit they wasted years developing a broken mechanic.

Win/win for CCP.

Mr Epeen Cool


It worked for Japan in 1945 too.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#207 - 2015-02-23 00:24:34 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Dude ITS A FACT ccp lost millions of dollars and man-hours with....

1) World of Darkness Vampire MMO
2) Incarnia/Walking in Stations
3) Dust

4) probably valkiry
5) probably any other non-internet spaceship sandbox thing they do


Ccp has admitted they lost millions on each of those first 3 dude. You deny it.

Also to all the Omg save thr newbros/retention so ccp will get more money so eve doesnt die/we get better stuff/etc
If ccp gets more money, they will either funnel it to non-eve things or just totally waste it
At no point am I saying they didn't lose on those. What I'm saying is swoppig on here knowing only that and having an article based on something an ex-employeed said doesn't condemn the company. They are professional developer running a successful MMORPG with constant updates.

And note, I'm not asking for WiS, what I'm saying is that CCP are competent enough to do it if they felt like it. I don't give a flying **** if you despise them so much you think they are incompetent.

Finally, what they spend their money on is none of your business. If you don't like what they are doing, stop funding them. If they want to spend it making a giant boat out of cake and sailing off into the ocean, that's their decision. Player retention is important to them because they are a business. I get that you don't care whether or not their business is successful but they probably do.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#208 - 2015-02-23 00:29:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
What we're talking about isn't 'gameplay'.
And with that I'm done discussing this with you. All you ever do is troll, and to be quite honest I get tired of you being negative about every goddamn thing anyone suggests or does. You think the game is crap you think the direction CCP are going is bad and you think their developers are incompetent, so why the hell are you even still here?

My point is simple. If CCP want to make WiS they bloody well can and I'd be fine with it. If they ever do and you decide to quit because of it, well then they win twice, don't they?

And neither of those questions require an answer, since I can already tell you that nothing you write in response to them will be worth reading since they'll either just be more trolling, or desperate twisting of words.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#209 - 2015-02-23 02:54:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Lucas Kell wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
What we're talking about isn't 'gameplay'.
And with that I'm done discussing this with you. All you ever do is troll, and to be quite honest I get tired of you being negative about every goddamn thing anyone suggests or does. You think the game is crap you think the direction CCP are going is bad and you think their developers are incompetent, so why the hell are you even still here?


LOL psychological projection.

Of the two of us, I'm the one who LIKES CCP, what EVE is and actually likes the EVE community (I simply think CCP. If I have something negative to say about something, it's because it's a stupid idea, usually from someone who doesn't actually like EVE Online but rather than quit and play something else they stay and beg CCP to change an entire game (that I happen to like), in your case to 'be more inclusive'.

If you think telling the truth is a troll, then you need to do some soul searching friend. I'm not your problem, your incredibly foolish way of thinking is.

Quote:

My point is simple. If CCP want to make WiS they bloody well can and I'd be fine with it. If they ever do and you decide to quit because of it, well then they win twice, don't they?


I don't like you and you don't like me, that's fine, but my dislike of you is based on your inability to see both reason and reality. That's a you problem.

CCP will do what they wish, I and others will simply tell them the truth about what they are doing instead of pretending that everything is ok like some sycophant.

Quote:

And neither of those questions require an answer, since I can already tell you that nothing you write in response to them will be worth reading since they'll either just be more trolling, or desperate twisting of words.


It's can only be a liar who construes the truth as 'twisting of words'. Good day sir.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#210 - 2015-02-23 03:51:59 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

In this particular case, the Ivory Soap Company tried to make a Bath Tissue product, and did so by neglecting their core product, in a way that brought on the ire of their soap customers.

Then, the Ivory Soap company bought someone else's Bath Tissue product and tried to make it an Ivory Soap Company product, but they had to scrap the whole thing and excise that part of the company.

If now someone brings up Bath Tissue again, do you think it's inappropriate that people bring up two previous failed attempts, one (or possibly both) of which had a detrimental effect on the core product?

Except you are rewriting history.
The ire was caused by 2 things.
Firstly by peoples video cards that actually caught on fire or melted down from the super super laggy CQ at the time, because there were faults in the rendering somewhere that actually caused real hardware issues.
Secondly, by the leaked greed is good memo.

The concept of WiS was nothing to do with the Jita riots, the protests or any of the rest of it. People liked the concept of WiS as it was meant to have been developed with game features. Not just pretty fluff.

But. If you want to insist on rewriting history, go right ahead, you obviously aren't interesting in listening to reason.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#211 - 2015-02-23 03:58:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Meanwhile in other news, the improved opportunities based NPE will make the new players start in space.
I'll be shocked if the CQ becomes a part of the opportunities system. (Seriously: "Enter your Captain's Quarters -> Walk around your Captain's Quarters-> Sit on the couch -> Stand up again -> Congratulations!")
I'll be a little surprised if the CQ still is a part of the client by Fanfest 2016, too.
I imagine Hilmar punching himself in the face repeatedly now.
I think there is probably a self righting doll that looks like him in the CCP offices. P

.... I wonder if they would do requests. Look all mangled in a wheel chair ... no flirting in the pub then. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#212 - 2015-02-23 04:08:35 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Once CCP finishes Legion and Phoenix,



whats phoenix?

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#213 - 2015-02-23 04:30:12 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

The ire was caused by 2 things.
Firstly by peoples video cards that actually caught on fire or melted down from the super super laggy CQ at the time, because there were faults in the rendering somewhere that actually caused real hardware issues.
Secondly, by the leaked greed is good memo.

The concept of WiS was nothing to do with the Jita riots, the protests or any of the rest of it. People liked the concept of WiS as it was meant to have been developed with game features. Not just pretty fluff.

But. If you want to insist on rewriting history, go right ahead, you obviously aren't interesting in listening to reason.


No rewrite. Aralyn provides a full summary of contributing reasons, the most agregious of which is:

Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
18 months - Set the stage by creating an undercurrent of neglect in EvE, and creating an expectation of WiS ("we better get something worth the loss of 18 months of EvE developement")




Ask anyone naysayer in this thread why they oppose WiS. This is the prime reason. Development of the main game elements losing ground because of shifted resources to an unrelated, unconnected aspect of the game is a legitimate concern. As far as I can tell, it is one of the reasons CCP isn't developing WiS right now.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#214 - 2015-02-23 04:59:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Sibyyl wrote:
WiS is a prime example of trying to run before you can walk. Character Creator has 2 developers assigned to it. Think about that before you start shooting for the moon.
Unless there is a strong link between the EVE the game and WiS, CCP will not develop it in any way, shape, or form. This was clearly stated in the last conference call between CCP and players on this topic.
Ever played with Morrowind world creator tool or done some design in Second Life?
Making a spawn point for a character is hardly a new and huge piece of code. Invite people into your Captain's Quarters would be a big difference for a small effort.
I don't actually understand why it is not implemented already.

(You pay micro transactions for items that change your appearance. You need to be able to stand around displaying those things and chatting about how marvellous you all look, to feel you got your value for money.)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#215 - 2015-02-23 05:13:33 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Ever played with Morrowind world creator tool or done some design in Second Life?
Making a spawn point for a character is hardly a new and huge piece of code. Invite people into your Captain's Quarters would be a big difference for a small effort.
I don't actually understand why it is not implemented already.

(You pay micro transactions for items that change your appearance. You need to be able to stand around displaying those things and chatting about how marvellous you all look, to feel you got your value for money.)


I can't say I have tried either of those. I've tried the character maker in Runescape, which was flexible enough for me to choose blue hair and a yellow jumpsuit. If options are available, as they are in EVE, I would be remiss not to experiment with them.

I'm not arguing that people don't want something like WiS, nor am I arguing that it is of no worth.. this is a game, after all, and 99% of what we do is a complete waste of time.

Any engineering project is requires time, resources, and money and never are all three available in plentiful supply. Do we want SOV changes? Then we can't have WiS. Do we want POS code to be fixed? Then we can't have WiS. This the reality, folks. The sooner people realize this, the sooner we can collaborate to drive meaningful, realistic changes in Character Creator instead of this stream of consciousness opium dream kitchen sink vision people keep referring to.

Seriously.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#216 - 2015-02-23 05:29:35 UTC
what is soap
Jenshae Chiroptera
#217 - 2015-02-23 05:33:10 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Making a spawn point for a character is hardly a new and huge piece of code. Invite people into your Captain's Quarters would be a big difference for a small effort.
I don't actually understand why it is not implemented already.
Any engineering project is requires time, resources, and money and never are all three available in plentiful supply. Do we want SOV changes? Then we can't have WiS. ... stream of consciousness opium dream kitchen sink vision people keep referring to.

Seriously.
I talk about one little mechanic and you go on about entire stations.

(Stations and ship interiors that can be largely player built with the right tools.)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Jishi Padecain
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#218 - 2015-02-23 07:17:47 UTC
I want EVE to be an immersive SciFi universe. Dust 514, Valkyrie and Legion: all great ideas. All trying to appeal to different sections of SciFi fandom. It's not bad to try new things, but the way these have been implemented in the past have left the community discouraged.

Ever since Incarna when everyone was left speechless with how a great looking tech demo was launched as a single room that doubled as a morgue for spontaneously combusting graphics cards and ever since all of the promises we were given about connectivity between Dust and EVE was revealed to be nothing more than an occasional orbital strike the community has been skittish about side projects. Valkyrie has been garnering attention due to the advent of VR gaming and Legion will hopefully reconcile Dust 514 rather than simply cutting it off like a gangrenous arm.

It's clear the Devs aren't satisfied with just spaceships. Considering the EVE concept was to be a fleshed out scifi universe they really shouldn't be either. We have all of this cool lore and the potential to use it.

So, yes I want WiS to happen. I want the Devs to keep trying new things. I love the spaceships and would still spend most of my time out in one, but that doesn't mean we should stop at spaceships. We just need to have better interconnectivity between all of these cool things. That's where we go wrong.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#219 - 2015-02-23 08:29:39 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Of the two of us, I'm the one who LIKES CCP, what EVE is and actually likes the EVE community (I simply think CCP. If I have something negative to say about something, it's because it's a stupid idea, usually from someone who doesn't actually like EVE Online but rather than quit and play something else they stay and beg CCP to change an entire game (that I happen to like), in your case to 'be more inclusive'.
Except your argument against WiS is that you think CCP are incompetent developers and will somehow ruin everything by adding avatars. I on the other hand have no problem with them putting in features even if I wouldn't use them as long as they don't affect the rest of the game - which WiS wouldn't.

And bear in mind EVE was designed to be an immersive virtual world. I'm all for changes which allow that to happen in more situations.

Jenn aSide wrote:
I don't like you and you don't like me, that's fine, but my dislike of you is based on your inability to see both reason and reality. That's a you problem.
Lol? I can't see reason? You don't want WiS because... what? It wouldn't affect you in the slightest. And yet you still complain. I don't actually think I've seen you ever agree with any idea before. I'm sure it must have happened, but the fact that people know you as someone that will automatically whine, surely that says something about your views and how reasonable they are?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#220 - 2015-02-23 08:32:59 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Ask anyone naysayer in this thread why they oppose WiS. This is the prime reason. Development of the main game elements losing ground because of shifted resources to an unrelated, unconnected aspect of the game is a legitimate concern. As far as I can tell, it is one of the reasons CCP isn't developing WiS right now.
But that's already happening. Why aren't the same people who opposed WiS out there right now putting up complaint threads and shooting monuments because CCP is developing Valkyrie? That will shift resources too, so why is that not a problem but WiS would be if it were developed once Valkyrie was done?

Again, not saying they should, just I don't get why the argument only applies to one and not the other.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.